Is the Ford 1x23 Spline a perfect match on the LT77/R380?

Is the Ford 1x23 Spline a perfect match on the LT77/R380?

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ZoDDy

Original Poster:

24 posts

220 months

Saturday 12th April 2014
quotequote all
I replaced my old RV8 clutch with a Mcleod unit made for the Dodge Charger -69
The Clutch plate spline was a perfect match on the LT77. It has the exact same 1x23 spline like
the one on the Rover V8/LT77 2WD.

I have searched the net and i can´t really find correct information if the Ford 1x23 spline
is the same or "almost" the same. I have read that somebody bought a Ford clutch and it
didn´t feel perfectly tight between the disc and shaft splines. Can´t be very good for the shaft?

I have also read that the Ford use exactly the same spline!!?? Emm can both be right?
Are older Ford splines different to the new metric cars?

I would likt to know coz i sooner or later need to swap my LT77
to something stronger and it might be a Ford trans.. Cant find 10,5" clutch to the Toyota R154
box, so i can probably not use this one.








Auntieroll

543 posts

183 months

Saturday 12th April 2014
quotequote all
Try having a look at the S.A.E. specs for splines, IIRC Ford use them along with most manufacturers.

ZoDDy

Original Poster:

24 posts

220 months

Saturday 12th April 2014
quotequote all
Auntieroll said:
Try having a look at the S.A.E. specs for splines, IIRC Ford use them along with most manufacturers.
Thanx for your reply! I have already tried to google that.. nothing came up.
I have tried to combine lot´s of words like 1x23 ford SAE spec, Ford spline standard, Ford spline type etc..
it´s like a hidden secret nobody should know smile


Edited by ZoDDy on Saturday 12th April 21:27

stevieturbo

17,229 posts

246 months

Saturday 12th April 2014
quotequote all
Clutch disc is the least of your worries. You can have them made to suit any spline.

I had a MCleod street twin I used with the LT77, after I got fed up replacing them I moved to the R154.

Just got 2 new centre hubs to suit the Toyota spline and had them riveted into the friction discs.

Just contact any decent clutch company for disc.

I'd be fairly sure most of the 23 spline stuff will interchange too.

ZoDDy

Original Poster:

24 posts

220 months

Sunday 13th April 2014
quotequote all
stevieturbo said:
Clutch disc is the least of your worries. You can have them made to suit any spline.

I had a MCleod street twin I used with the LT77, after I got fed up replacing them I moved to the R154.

Just got 2 new centre hubs to suit the Toyota spline and had them riveted into the friction discs.

Just contact any decent clutch company for disc.

I'd be fairly sure most of the 23 spline stuff will interchange too.
Hmm interesting info! So it´s possible to custom order a clutchdisc!? My plan is to swap to the Toyota box too.
The Tremec TKO:s shifting sucks, The T5 will probably fail, The T56 is too heavy and smooth like a truck transmission.
Then we have the Getrag family, the BMW transmissions.. I dont know so much about them and many of them use fixed bells

My stupid sold the R154 i had.. But I have started to look at the W58.. looks smaller but probably stronger than most of the other
boxes. The only problem i see with the Toyota boxes is the gearing, i would like to have taller gear on the first,
I want to use my turbo torque better.


stevieturbo

17,229 posts

246 months

Sunday 13th April 2014
quotequote all
T56 isnt really that bad. Ive never had any complaints about mine.

But the newer TR6060 is supposed to be a lot better. But yes they are bloody heavy. Likewise with a T56 Magnum.
Overall they do represent fairly decent value and they are immensely strong.

R154's used to be dirt cheap, but now the Jap cars are so popular for drifting, they command high prices.

What is the application ? engine ? vehicle ? power ?

I bought the centre hubs from this place below. They used to have a superb website listing all the various splines from different manufacturers. Their website is st now, with conventional car listings. Although that must be near 17 years ago I did that lol
But they can make anything you need.

Although I'd like to think there are local clutch places who could do the same.

http://clutchnet.com/index.php?option=com_docman&a...

ZoDDy

Original Poster:

24 posts

220 months

Monday 14th April 2014
quotequote all
stevieturbo said:
T56 isnt really that bad. Ive never had any complaints about mine.

But the newer TR6060 is supposed to be a lot better. But yes they are bloody heavy. Likewise with a T56 Magnum.
Overall they do represent fairly decent value and they are immensely strong.

R154's used to be dirt cheap, but now the Jap cars are so popular for drifting, they command high prices.

What is the application ? engine ? vehicle ? power ?

I bought the centre hubs from this place below. They used to have a superb website listing all the various splines from different manufacturers. Their website is st now, with conventional car listings. Although that must be near 17 years ago I did that lol
But they can make anything you need.

Although I'd like to think there are local clutch places who could do the same.

http://clutchnet.com/index.php?option=com_docman&a...
I´ll try to keep it short.. not easy! smile

My car is a Mazda RX-4 coupé -74 The original rotary engine is swapped to a tuned RV8 4.6 fed with twin TD04HL Turbos.
I have limited the boost to 4psi to save the LT77 box, but the engine respond surprisingly good to boost so it pulls
seriously hard without any lag. The weight of the car with everything including me (85kg) is 1300kg / 2860 lbs
3,93 In the rear axle and the Tire dia is 25.71" drag radials..

No dyno yet, only measured it with a performance meter. I didn´t push the engine to the max, not fully mapped yet.
The numbers i got is around 350rwhp would probably gain another 20-25hp if i floor it. Like i said, i don´t have the facts yet!

The future plan is to swap to a boosted LS1 engine, so the transmission need to work with that engine too.
I want to do it right the first time. I think it´s better to spend a few bucks extra on the transm, If it goes bang
it will probably be more expensive to do it all over again and again and again

I need to locate somebody in UK that offer a strong trans in good condition to a resonable price,
Some ppl seem selling transmissions made of gold. smile

Here is my car, very few know how the RX4:s looks like..

(In Swedish) http://www.garaget.org/?car=340422




stevieturbo

17,229 posts

246 months

Monday 14th April 2014
quotequote all
I'll keep this short...sort of lol

If you intend moving to an LS1, do not waste any more money on the Rover V8.

If you absolutely must upgrade the LT77 ( I'd wait until you break it a couple of times though ) try the R380 from later Rover setups.
Your car isnt too heavy, so I think it would last pretty well, and not be a big hassle or expense to swap.

Then just move to the LS1/T56 or Tremec TKO when you are ready to swap.

If the T56/TR6060/T56 Magnum is physically too big and you dont need or want 6 gears. Use the Tremec TKO500 or 600 5 speed

The R154 is a good box, but they arent as easy to find now, and arent as cheap as they should be. I did break a tooth off 3rd gear with one of mine when I had the 4.6 twin turbo RV8. Other than that though the R154 did work great though.

I would not waste money on it to fit it to a RV8, and then an LS. It's just wasting money with all custom parts to make it bolt to the different engines

If you have to choose a box now, choose one that already bolts to an LS1. Then when you change engines there is no further expense, as everything is easily sourced and cheap parts.

ZoDDy

Original Poster:

24 posts

220 months

Monday 14th April 2014
quotequote all
Exactly what i´m thinking.. I try to prepare for the future LS..
If I mate a good box to the RV8 i only have to swap the bell to a chevy one
when i do the next swap.

When i ditch the LT77 i plan to use it´s original bell and mate it to a strong transmission that also work with the LS.
I don´t spend much money on parts coz i make my own mostly. The most expensive parts has been so far the ARP bolts and
MLS gaskets, and the Mcleod clutch is something that i can move to the next engine.

What worry me is the TKO shifting problem.. My perfect pick was the TKO 600, it´s not too heavy, compact size, plenty of parts and spares, i can choose the perfect gearing, it fits great in my car and it´s perfect for any LS conversions.. But how good would a transmission be when it can´t shift?? Have you google it? The TKO shifting problem? Lot´s of angry ppl smile

stevieturbo

17,229 posts

246 months

Monday 14th April 2014
quotequote all
I suspect a lot of the shifting problems are from Americans.

Without wanting to stereotype....they also seem to struggle with clutches too.

There does seem to be a pattern there from the land of automatic cars.

From what I read, the 500 and newer 600 are supposed to be much better than the older TKO's
But Ive never owned one so cant comment myself.

But there are a lot of people who say the T56 is terrible shifting. Really....Ive no idea where these people get that from, as I find mine quite fine. It will never be super slick, but Ive no complaints.

The T56 Magnum or TR6060 are supposed to be much better too.

If you have the room, and are happy with the weight and 6 gears, I would have no hesitation with the Magnum. ( UK seller prices + VAT at 20% for UK )
Sourcing from the US may well be cheaper, but it isnt a terrible price.

http://www.roadcraftuk.co.uk/index.php?route=produ...

For a lower torque rated OEM TR6060, PWP list these at decent prices

http://shop.partsworldperformance.com/tr-6060-six-...

But the TKO600 is much smaller so may well be easier to install, plus it's cheaper.

Would probably be easier to adapt the TKO600 to the Rover engine too.

http://www.roadcraftuk.co.uk/index.php?route=produ...

You could probably speak to some of the box specialists in the US to see if they modify them for improved shifitng.
RPM Transmissions, DDPerformance, Tick Performance to name a few.

ZoDDy

Original Poster:

24 posts

220 months

Wednesday 16th April 2014
quotequote all
Well, maybe you´re right.. When i was in US the big discussion was about the manual transmission. It was the biggest happening of all time like WOW do you drive stickshift?!? GOD!!.... OHH MYYYY GOD!! smile

I have to admit that i´m always worried over the American stuff. When buying "bolt on" parts i know i have to spend several days
in the garage to correct and modify all the problems with it. It´s like the TKO:s, i´m buying a new and shiny gearbox but to make it work perfectly i probably have to spend another load of cash to modify it on the inside. Bronze Shift Fork Pads, Surface Enhancement Processed Hubs & Sliders, Threaded Front Cluster Bearing Support, Carbon Fiber Blocking Rings, Face plating!! WTF!? To me it sounds like the box is not fully done from the factory!? And on top of that, all the angry ppl online complaining.. I´m not sure my budget allow me to buy a fully upgraded Tremec.. frown


stevieturbo

17,229 posts

246 months

Wednesday 16th April 2014
quotequote all
ZoDDy said:
Well, maybe you´re right.. When i was in US the big discussion was about the manual transmission. It was the biggest happening of all time like WOW do you drive stickshift?!? GOD!!.... OHH MYYYY GOD!! smile

I have to admit that i´m always worried over the American stuff. When buying "bolt on" parts i know i have to spend several days
in the garage to correct and modify all the problems with it. It´s like the TKO:s, i´m buying a new and shiny gearbox but to make it work perfectly i probably have to spend another load of cash to modify it on the inside. Bronze Shift Fork Pads, Surface Enhancement Processed Hubs & Sliders, Threaded Front Cluster Bearing Support, Carbon Fiber Blocking Rings, Face plating!! WTF!? To me it sounds like the box is not fully done from the factory!? And on top of that, all the angry ppl online complaining.. I´m not sure my budget allow me to buy a fully upgraded Tremec.. frown
Buy the 600 and if you experience problems, then rebuild.

A lot of the "uprated" parts are probably not needed, and more insurance against bad shifts than anything.

I had a T56 box built for me a few years ago, and already it needs new baulk rings on 2nd, although it may have been an oil I used fora a while.

I'm currently using a completely standard T56 that has seen lots of abuse, and was in my car running 10flat at near 150mph
And it still works superbly, actually feels better than the uprated one !!

Really, I think many concerns simply are not warranted

stevieturbo

17,229 posts

246 months

Wednesday 16th April 2014
quotequote all
I guess another option and they too are not cheap. Plus they have integral bellhousing.

6 speed TT Supra box. They're super strong, and I'm sure they shift well.

But you'd also pay huge sums to mate it to a RV8, and then to an LS1

On those 2 counts alone, using anything other than a Tremec is just crazy really.

ZoDDy

Original Poster:

24 posts

220 months

Thursday 17th April 2014
quotequote all
I had this 6 speed in mind, i´m a lucky guy coz I work in a machineshop so the mods is not very hard to do. Machining and welding is not a problem.

If i can find this 6 speeder they will probably asking so much money so it will probably kill my wallet, and like you say the fixed bell is a huge problem when i have to modify it once again.

I think the TKO is the best option.. Some ppl love them and some hate them.. It´s always
those who hate that you hear on the net, the happy ppl never say anything they just drive smile
And the gearing in it will work perfectly for my setup.

/Kenneth