Haybusa BEC, reliable, costly...?

Haybusa BEC, reliable, costly...?

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The Seer

Original Poster:

664 posts

210 months

Sunday 13th April 2014
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I'm considering my options with regards to buying another Se7en variant. Not really interested in track days, looking to cover around 2000 miles a year on my local roads.

I'm sure it's been asked before, but just how reliable are the Haybusa powered cars?

Lastly, what's the price of rebuilding a Haybusa engine if or when it needs it?

Thanks smile

ugg10

681 posts

216 months

Sunday 13th April 2014
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For most mortals a hyabussa car will never be driven over about 6/10 on the road without loosing your license or your life. You would be better with something you can fully exploit at legal speeds without wrapping it round a tree. I would suggest trying to blag a ride/drive in a couple of cars say hyabussa, fireblade, 4age/sigma and see what you like/can handle on the road. For example, imo, the best road caterham would be a r300 with about 160hp and a reasonable amount or torque.

Just my opinion, try a few and decide. Worth a trip to Stoneleigh or the new castle Combe show if you can.

Something like this would be ideal imo and should not loose money in the long run -
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/c...


Edited by ugg10 on Sunday 13th April 12:13

The Seer

Original Poster:

664 posts

210 months

Sunday 13th April 2014
quotequote all
Thanks for the link.and info smile Agreed Caterham s do hold their money well, though very over priced in comparison to the other Seven derivatives.

I had SEiW powered by a 180 bhp Zetec a few years back. It weighed around 600 kgs, so similar to an R300. Since I've been there and done that and experiencing an SR 3 on the road I feel it really is 500 per tonne or nothing.

The Seer

Original Poster:

664 posts

210 months

Sunday 13th April 2014
quotequote all
...so to all the owners of Hayabusa BEC s just what am I letting myself in for? I really do like the ethos of the lightweight high revving engine. Just worried about its reliability, and how much does it cost when the engine fails??

rdodger

1,088 posts

202 months

Sunday 13th April 2014
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Hayabusa can be as reliable as any other BEC but needs to be dry sumped to be so in a car.

The Seer

Original Poster:

664 posts

210 months

Sunday 13th April 2014
quotequote all
rdodger said:
Hayabusa can be as reliable as any other BEC but needs to be dry sumped to be so in a car.
Ok, point noted smile The engine is prone to oil starvation even through fast road usage?

OliilO

198 posts

136 months

Sunday 13th April 2014
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Personally I'd consider other options such as R1/blade or zx10r engines as they generally require less to make them suitable for use in a car and are probably cheaper to replace if it does go bang.

Clearly if you're buying a Hayabusa engined car that is already sorted, that's not such an issue.

The Seer

Original Poster:

664 posts

210 months

Sunday 13th April 2014
quotequote all
OliilO said:
Personally I'd consider other options such as R1/blade or zx10r engines as they generally require less to make them suitable for use in a car and are probably cheaper to replace if it does go bang.

Clearly if you're buying a Hayabusa engined car that is already sorted, that's not such an issue.
Sadly anything other than the Hayabusa lacks the power. I gotta have 500 per tonne, I'm tired of slower cars.

It'll probably be a Megabusa. But how costly is it the have them rebuilt if and when they fail?

Snake the Sniper

2,544 posts

200 months

Monday 14th April 2014
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Don't take this as a knock, but why do you want 500BHP/Tonne, if it's just a road car? My previous car was around 300BHP/Tonne, as is the one I'm building now, and more than enough for 99% of situations I came across on the road. More power wouldn't have made it any quicker on the road or more likely to overtake as you still have to move a car sized thing around.

The Seer

Original Poster:

664 posts

210 months

Monday 14th April 2014
quotequote all
Snake the Sniper said:
Don't take this as a knock, but why do you want 500BHP/Tonne, if it's just a road car? My previous car was around 300BHP/Tonne, as is the one I'm building now, and more than enough for 99% of situations I came across on the road. More power wouldn't have made it any quicker on the road or more likely to overtake as you still have to move a car sized thing around.
I've tasted 500 per tonne from a passenger ride in a very light car. The memory has stuck, and what a fantastic one it was too. As mentioned I've already experienced 300 per tonne in the SEiW I had. It was Ok, and I'm glad I experienced it but it definitely wasn't quick enough. This is why I'm looking to 500 per tonne.

jeffw

845 posts

227 months

Monday 14th April 2014
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If you want a 500BHP/Tonne car then go and get one. Busa is a well understood motor these days, I'd have a chat to Andy Bates at AB Performance and get some good advice on what is required.

I think you might struggle to get 500BHP/Tonne with a stock Busa (190BHP) and a light 7 (450Kg). This combination works out at 422BHP/Tonne without the driver. My Phoenix is 340BHP and 620Kg so makes 548BHP/Tonne.

Huff

3,141 posts

190 months

Monday 14th April 2014
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Well a Huyabusa alone won't get you there (190ish Hp in a 500-550Kg car + your weight), you'll certainly be looking at forced induction for that figure.

Achieving 300hp/tonne in a light car with you in it is a good target to start with.


ETA: I see Jeff's made the exactly the same point a miinute earlier, with numbers.

GreigM

6,726 posts

248 months

Monday 14th April 2014
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I've got a megabusa, have been through all the pain getting it uber-reliable and not much I don't know about them.

As for performance v other BECs it can't be beat (have owned a megablade and driven all the other variants, busa is the best full stop). It's nothing to do with the bhp/tonne issue more simply to do with the delivery and torque. Bike engines lack torque anyway but all the others really stuggle to pull well coming out of a bend without flipping through many gears and revving the bks off them. The delivery makes the busa a way better road drive (and substantially quicker on track). With many of the BECs if you add a passenger to the mix they just can't handle it - the busa copes way better just due to raw grunt.

As for reliability it depends hugely on how the sump and cooling systems are set up - the standard westfield configuration just isn't up to the job in both areas. I've got a good SBD dry sump, high capacity water pump + digital controller, bigger water rad, bigger oil cooler and it can handle anything. The clutch also needs to be uprated - billet basket, stiffer springs and a genuine suzuki clutch are a must - with those it will feel nice and go forever. Team it with a flatshifter/trickshifter and flappy paddles and its an extremely quick and reliable bit of kit. The problem with many of the megabusa out there is that the market forces the price down, so everyone is looking for the 10k car then complains when the engine bursts because it didn't have a decent sump/cooling/clutch setup and they end up forking out for engine rebuilds way in excess of the what the cost would have been to buy a well setup car in the first place.

If you want any info/help (or want to watch a thousand track-day vids of a megabusa) just let me know.

ugg10

681 posts

216 months

Monday 14th April 2014
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To get you your 500bhp/ton you can always bung a turbo/supercharger on the hayabusa. This will also add a bit of torque that the bike cars miss.

http://www.tts-performance.co.uk/#!suzuki-gsx1300-...

Also have a look at holeshot racing for turbo kits.

This may be an alternative - R1 Turbo - http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/34/viewthrea...

That said, for a sorted Hyabusa kit car then you ought to be budgeting north of £10k, for a westie more like £12.5k+ and that is without getting anywhere near your 500bhp/ton as others have said. R1/ZX12 will give you 90% of the performance for 70% of the price. Worth googling Doug Cowper to see what you can do with a hyabusa and a dax rush.

Here's a couple of alternaties/examples -

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/k...
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/w...


The alternative is a 350-400bhp cossie dax rush (possibly 4x4) but again you are into £15k.

Edited by ugg10 on Monday 14th April 13:30

GreigM

6,726 posts

248 months

Monday 14th April 2014
quotequote all
ugg10 said:
To get you your 500bhp/ton you can always bung a turbo/supercharger on the hayabusa. This will also add a bit of torque that the bike cars miss.
Having known a few people who went down this route (and researched it thoroughly myself) I'm not convinced its the way to go. The turbo route has many benefits - easier, cheaper, quieter (very important for track days) but definitely does significantly increase the chance of expensive engine failure. Cooling is a big issue as is packaging the necessary intercooler and ultimately you lose a lot of drivability.

Supercharging is possibly a better route but massively expensive and has its own problems, mainly noise (if you want to get on any track day) but is significantly more driveable.

In either case you will have even greater problems with emissions at MoT time (already an issue with the busa) and to get anything more than about a 50bhp bump you should really be upgrading internals (at more £££). In any case you are pushing the complete cost of the project into Caterham R400 territory price wise, and the residuals in the Caterham will be strong while you would never come close to recovering the cost of making a busa FI. I strongly believe the sweet point with the busa (in both reliability and residuals) is a well sorted standard car around the £12-£14K mark.

gtmdriver

333 posts

172 months

Monday 14th April 2014
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When I wrote my article on bike engines for kit cars Andy Bates provided me with a lot of the information and his advice for the Hayabusa engine was to fit the SBD dry sump system (£2000 ish).

He reckoned that baffled sumps and swinging pickup systems just don't get it done on this engine.

jeffw

845 posts

227 months

Monday 14th April 2014
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ugg10 said:
. Worth googling Doug Cowper to see what you can do with a hyabusa and a dax rush.
Duncan Cowper has a very quick Turbo Busa Rush....how weird is that wink

ugg10

681 posts

216 months

Monday 14th April 2014
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Doh, finger and brain trouble, Duncan Cowper is the man (know a guy at work called doug).

Johnson SE

84 posts

210 months

Monday 14th April 2014
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I'd second/third the SBD dry sump option. When I built mine I used that from the off. It's been faultless. Not cheap by any stretch of the imagination but very good.

There is a Megabusa (2008 car) that I know is for sale on the WSCC right now. Chap is local to me has lots of good bits on it. Quite low mileage too. Almost the identical car to mine but in green.

I must get round to putting a post about mine in the readers car section on here when I get a moment.

jeffw

845 posts

227 months

Tuesday 15th April 2014
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I followed a very high spec Megabusa and watched it destroy itself in a few yards on the motorway after the drysump connectors has failed. Not the SBD drysump though...