Upgrading classic Range

Upgrading classic Range

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Discussion

Persoons

Original Poster:

10 posts

158 months

Monday 14th April 2014
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Hello,

I've been thinking of building a 3 door range rover to suit my 'needs'.
I've always been a big fan of the classic Range, and after having a friend's 3.5 EFI 5 speed manual, I was pleasantly surprised by the way it drives.

Although I liked the 5 gears in this car, I found that a manual transmission doesn't really suit the car's character.
Which was somewhat of a suprise to me, since I would have a manual over an auto in practically every car.

This is why I'd like to explore the possibility of building a 3 door car with a 4.6, mated to a more modern 5 or 6 speed auto.
I've been looking whether it would be possible to fit an american 4WD 5 or 5 speed auto transmission, but haven't really found any clear information about such a swap. Might there be any adaptor plates on the market to convert the "Buick" V8 to a modern chevy or ford transmission that's possible to fit in a classic RR chassis?

I'd have no problem in having custom driveshafts etc made to fit a different transfer case.

Any ideas or thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Best regards,
Axel


camel_landy

4,848 posts

182 months

Monday 14th April 2014
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Keep it simple... Fit an engine & auto gearbox (IIRC 4spd) from a very late Classic.

M

DKL

4,474 posts

221 months

Monday 14th April 2014
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PM Donkeyapple on here. He's doing something very similar I believe.

task

418 posts

170 months

Tuesday 15th April 2014
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The sort of thing you're looking to do has been done before in various ways.

Land Rover did it themselves with the CSK model, Overfinch jammed the Chevy V8 under the bonnet and other have fitted things like a BMW V8 and even a Jag V12. There was a fully restored 2 door with a 4.6 for sale on ebay recently for an eye watering sum, although when you consider the amount of work required to do a nut and bolt rebuild you can understand why it costs what it does. There also seems to be a good market for it. At least one company is putting the JLR V8 into the Defender, so other than a few possible issues with bulkhead clearance which I am sure could be overcome, there seems no reason why this couldn't be fitted to a RRC. They are pretty much the same once the body is removed.

Depending on if you were doing the work yourself and the level of your ability would shape the outcome of your build.

If I were doing it, and should I ever sell my CSK then I probably would be doing it, I would do as follows;

Import LHD ~1993 2 door classic from Europe.
Buy a softdash rotten UK classic.
Buy a crate LS1/Ford engine/gearbox combo (people are using these in comp safari racers based on Land Rovers so they can be made to fit)

Combine the 3 to give a 2 door range rover on the outside, with the more modern dash and insides from the softdash and some serious power.

Also as mentioned above, I believe DonkeyApple is having something along these lines built.

Sounds simple, right? wink

Paw

172 posts

182 months

Thursday 17th April 2014
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I keep thinking about doing this, I have seen a 3.9 softdash two door and it was a good looking car. However not a 100% I would go softdash, but I do happen to have a rusty one that needs a use.

The two door you mentioned was a LHD two door over a hard dash 3.9 Vogue, just not in white lol. The shell he has in Tuscan blue looks very nice.

We need DA to start his to give us pointers


task

418 posts

170 months

Thursday 17th April 2014
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Worth having a google for this as actually there have been two conversions done in the past;

one by DAUR Performance who wrapped a 2 door RRC shell round a Disco2 4.6 drive train. The other I forget the name of but involves some google translate, he built a two door softdash.

My build thread is on here somewhere, giving a blow-by-blow account of how I rebuilt a 1991 CSK from a rusty mess and added a few tweaks along the way.

Persoons

Original Poster:

10 posts

158 months

Sunday 20th April 2014
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Hi,

Thanks for all the replies.
Whilst searching for a nice donor vehicle, I came across an incredibly sound, low mileage LHD suffix A car, that's unfortunately had a (recent headache ) 200tdi and a 5speed manual conversion. The car was in exceptional condition otherwise.

Long story short, I bought it and brought the V8 along in the boot.

I now facing the dilemma of putting it back to it's exact factory spec, since it's a suffix A car, or to tastefully upgrade it mechanically anyway.

If I were to upgrade it, I would stick with a manual, since an auto seems out of place in a suffix A, but I think I'd prefer a 5speed with a very low ratio transfer box for relaxed driving.

For the engine, I'm quite tempted to go for a completely new 4.6 with distributor and Weber 500 carb and manifold from Rpi.
Suspension wise, I've been looking into the Harvey Bailey ARB's and shocks that used to be available...

It might be sacrilege to deviate from the originality of this car, but then again, it currently has a 200 Tdi, and surely I'm not the only person who fancies an original looking suffix A car with these upgraded driving capabilities,... or am I?


Any help, guidance, or upgrade tips would be very welcome,


All the best,
Axel

soxboy

6,018 posts

218 months

Monday 21st April 2014
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For relaxed cruising could you try and fit an overdrive unit instead of a 5 speed?

JNR77

279 posts

237 months

Wednesday 23rd April 2014
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How about buying a reasonable condition soft dash then cut out the B pillar, move it back and fit 2 door rear quarter inner and outer panels and doors, hay presto a 3 door with all the mod cons of a softdash. I think rimmer bros sell the 3 door rear panel with the high level filler flap

Markh

2,781 posts

274 months

Sunday 27th April 2014
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JNR77 said:
How about buying a reasonable condition soft dash then cut out the B pillar, move it back and fit 2 door rear quarter inner and outer panels and doors, hay presto a 3 door with all the mod cons of a softdash. I think rimmer bros sell the 3 door rear panel with the high level filler flap
seriously, is that in theory possible?

task

418 posts

170 months

Monday 28th April 2014
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Markh said:
seriously, is that in theory possible?
Sort of, you'd also need to change the A posts to the correct ones for a 2 door hinge mounting which would involve stripping a fair bit of dash etc back and you'd need to find a good quality A post to substitute in to keep the strength, modify the sills to fit the correct seat belt mounting points for a late 2 door, change the front wings for a cut-out hinge type and also change the scuttle panel.

The B pillar is different too, so you'd need to source one of those from a late type with seat belt mounting points and also the correct length seat belts, along with the later type rear windows and trim panels for the inside beside the seats/B posts and carpet. The roof panel is the same although the mounts for the grab handles are in a different place.

To use the hi-filler rear wings you need to modify the inner wing at the rear to create a cut-out for the fuel filler if converting from the low-filler wing.

Lastly you'd need to find some longer sill plates of the correct length and some door seals, which can be done either the early way or the later way. They're pretty hard to find though.

So, in theory possible, yes. But it'd make more sense to start with a decent 2 door shell and add the softdash bulkhead to that rather than the other way round.

Paw

172 posts

182 months

Monday 28th April 2014
quotequote all
And find a decent Softdash bulkhead !

task

418 posts

170 months

Monday 28th April 2014
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Paw said:
And find a decent Softdash bulkhead !
Plenty of 300 shape discoveries out there if you cant find a RRC bulkhead, the panel is very similar and should only need a few tweaks. Or go one step further and fit the dash and panel from a Disco 2...

Markh

2,781 posts

274 months

Monday 28th April 2014
quotequote all
task said:
Plenty of 300 shape discoveries out there if you cant find a RRC bulkhead, the panel is very similar and should only need a few tweaks. Or go one step further and fit the dash and panel from a Disco 2...
that sounds interesting, is the Discovery 2 chassis and suspension better than the classic?

NomduJour

18,929 posts

258 months

Monday 28th April 2014
quotequote all
Benefit over a late air-sprung Classic chassis would be if you could incorporate the hydraulic anti-roll system, rear suspension is also better-located - Watts linkage vs A-arm.

paintman

7,665 posts

189 months

Monday 28th April 2014
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Markh said:
that sounds interesting, is the Discovery 2 chassis and suspension better than the classic?
Have a thorough look at the rear of the chassis on a Disco2, known rot area.
Bear in mind that the last Classics were built around 1996 & the later ones - post 1989ish - tend to rot worse than earlier ones. You need to check ALL the under panels - inner wings, sills, floor, rear arches etc.

Markh

2,781 posts

274 months

Monday 28th April 2014
quotequote all
NomduJour said:
Benefit over a late air-sprung Classic chassis would be if you could incorporate the hydraulic anti-roll system, rear suspension is also better-located - Watts linkage vs A-arm.
This is all very interesting, I have a really clean 92 Vogue ES which I am just about to totally refurbish the suspension (bushes, airbags, air pump, brakes, etc) so would a Discovery 2 be a better starting point (chassis wise) stick my RRC body on the disco 2 underpinnings, The Classic has been in the family since new an is a keeper

Many thanks

NomduJour

18,929 posts

258 months

Monday 28th April 2014
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No practical experience of doing it, but there are lots of differences between a Range Rover/Discovery and Discovery II which suggest it would be much easier to stick with what it started with.