Making a sportbike more friendly
Discussion
I recently bought my first proper sports bike. Its a gen-1 RSV Mille. I took it for a test ride before I bought it, loved the noise and the speed, thought it was very good looking so bought it!
Its a weekend toy as I have a car and a BMW r1100rs sports tourer which I take to work.
I have done about 1000 miles on the Mille now and whilst I really like it, I find that I can throw the BMW around a lot more and I am far more comfortable and maybe faster, through corners on the BMW.
The BMW just seems to turn faster/more easily with a slightly more upright position.
Is this something that I will just get used to or is there anything I can do to make the bike a little more compliant? The tyres are all good and I am comfortable sitting on the bike.
The suspension is quite hard. would softening it make it a little easier turning? Or do I just need to do more miles and get used to the bike! I am enjoying riding it just want to get a little more out of it!
Its a weekend toy as I have a car and a BMW r1100rs sports tourer which I take to work.
I have done about 1000 miles on the Mille now and whilst I really like it, I find that I can throw the BMW around a lot more and I am far more comfortable and maybe faster, through corners on the BMW.
The BMW just seems to turn faster/more easily with a slightly more upright position.
Is this something that I will just get used to or is there anything I can do to make the bike a little more compliant? The tyres are all good and I am comfortable sitting on the bike.
The suspension is quite hard. would softening it make it a little easier turning? Or do I just need to do more miles and get used to the bike! I am enjoying riding it just want to get a little more out of it!
Kingb
I have a s1000rr and ktm adventure, I find that on tight and twisty b roads (and some tight a roads) Im actually quicker on the ktm. I think its to do with getting a lot of leverage from the wider bars, higher viewpoint and softer suspension. On smoother roads the sportsbike will usually be quicker due to being able to use the power. It might be worth softening the suspension, but also adjusting all levers etc to make yourself more comfortable. If its your first sportsbike theres also an element of getting used to the different riding position.
I have a s1000rr and ktm adventure, I find that on tight and twisty b roads (and some tight a roads) Im actually quicker on the ktm. I think its to do with getting a lot of leverage from the wider bars, higher viewpoint and softer suspension. On smoother roads the sportsbike will usually be quicker due to being able to use the power. It might be worth softening the suspension, but also adjusting all levers etc to make yourself more comfortable. If its your first sportsbike theres also an element of getting used to the different riding position.
A sports bike takes more physical turning for sure, but will actually turn much quicker due to the firmer suspension and geometry. Have you done CSS at all? Very worthwhile if you haven't.
The angle of your arms to the bars makes the biggest difference. If you try to keep your forearms parallel with the ground your inputs have better leverage and the bike will turn in nicely.
When you go the other way (sports bike to upright tourer) it is unnerving as there is a lack of feel and directness. Just got to get used to either!
Love the Mille's, nice choice!
The angle of your arms to the bars makes the biggest difference. If you try to keep your forearms parallel with the ground your inputs have better leverage and the bike will turn in nicely.
When you go the other way (sports bike to upright tourer) it is unnerving as there is a lack of feel and directness. Just got to get used to either!
Love the Mille's, nice choice!
The geometry,suspension and riding position of 'sports' bikes are suited to the smooth tarmac found at a track. For the road the geometry, suspension and riding position are much, much better served by the likes of 'adventure' bikes. This can clearly be seen in area such as the Alps (which I frequent several times a year) where 'sports' bikes invariably struggle round most of the hairpins and even more so when descending any elevations and rough (normal) surfaced roads.
Higher, flatter wider handlebars/clip ons.
Grip the tank with the knees and use Firm, positive counter steering.
The turning circle/ steering lock angle of my (basically a naked Daytona) Street Triple isn't great, but having proper handlebars allows riding around the hairpins I've encountered.
Grip the tank with the knees and use Firm, positive counter steering.
The turning circle/ steering lock angle of my (basically a naked Daytona) Street Triple isn't great, but having proper handlebars allows riding around the hairpins I've encountered.
Leon19841 said:
Angle of your arms to the bars makes the biggest difference. If you try to keep your forearms parallel with the ground your inputs have better leverage and the bike will turn in nicely.
This makes such a difference. When you want to corner at speed try getting hunkered down in the seat and drop your shoulders to bring your forearms parallel to the ground. That way, 100% of your steering input is acting on the axis that the steering works on, the bike will turn in a lot quicker. If you're sitting upright and your arms are at 45 degrees to the ground, your steering input effort will be partially wasted by pushing down on the front wheel rather than pointing it where you want it to go. I had never really considered how or why this worked so well until I saw it explained on Keith Code's Twist of the Wrist 2 video. Adjusting the suspension might also help for confidence on bumpy roads, if the wheels can't stay in touch with the road surface you're not going to feel all that great pushing it. That said, there's always a trade off, what you gain in lower speed, bumpy road ability, you could lose in high speed stability.
Mastodon2 said:
Leon19841 said:
Angle of your arms to the bars makes the biggest difference. If you try to keep your forearms parallel with the ground your inputs have better leverage and the bike will turn in nicely.
This makes such a difference. When you want to corner at speed try getting hunkered down in the seat and drop your shoulders to bring your forearms parallel to the ground. That way, 100% of your steering input is acting on the axis that the steering works on, the bike will turn in a lot quicker. If you're sitting upright and your arms are at 45 degrees to the ground, your steering input effort will be partially wasted by pushing down on the front wheel rather than pointing it where you want it to go. I had never really considered how or why this worked so well until I saw it explained on Keith Code's Twist of the Wrist 2 video. Adjusting the suspension might also help for confidence on bumpy roads, if the wheels can't stay in touch with the road surface you're not going to feel all that great pushing it. That said, there's always a trade off, what you gain in lower speed, bumpy road ability, you could lose in high speed stability.
Id say suspension is key, get it set up for your weight and it will make a huge difference. Id only rode sportsbikes then got a Daytona 675, f
k me I thought it for weeks, i couldn’t turn it in at all, i was physically fighting the thing under brakes, cornering etc nothing like my zx6r. I then adjusted the suspension (it was set to lard ass) what a difference. It was like the one i had a shot of at a open day. Now I hasten to add this only works for me but I actually lean off as much as I can get away with on the road. Why, well not because i want to look like a tool but because im so light, even the slightest bit of braking has my nads hitting the tank even with when i squeeze my legs as tight as that bird in the james bond movie who asphyxiated that guy. Flinging a knee out and leaning over a bit means i get a better “grip” of the bike while the added advantage it stays upright. That said ive just bought tank grips so my style might change.
Saying that for months ive wanted a street instead of the Daytona for the road, I test rode the new one at the weekend and when i got back on the Daytona I instantly felt at home, i enjoyed the position much more. So i conclude sometimes it maybe just depends what mood you’re in i base that on absolutely nothing
Funny but twist of the wrist turned up yesterday so it is on my even viewing list!
I think getting the bike set up is a good idea! It might be perfect but who knows. I also used the bike for the commute this morning - 15 miles on A-roads - sounds odd but being slightly braver and physical with the bike did make it feel better!
More miles and set up me thinks!!
I think getting the bike set up is a good idea! It might be perfect but who knows. I also used the bike for the commute this morning - 15 miles on A-roads - sounds odd but being slightly braver and physical with the bike did make it feel better!
More miles and set up me thinks!!
kingb said:
Funny but twist of the wrist turned up yesterday so it is on my even viewing list!
I think getting the bike set up is a good idea! It might be perfect but who knows. I also used the bike for the commute this morning - 15 miles on A-roads - sounds odd but being slightly braver and physical with the bike did make it feel better!
More miles and set up me thinks!!
Can't beat time on the bike to get comfortable on it. Also bear in mind that a sports bike has a lot less suspension travel than your BMW which can be a bit nervy when cornering and you hit some of the excuses that they call roads over here (you will feel the bumps a lot more due to the firmer suspension) The natural reaction is to slow down and come off the throttle, which effectively puts all the weight on the front and compresses the suspension right down giving it very little travel to sort out the bumps.I think getting the bike set up is a good idea! It might be perfect but who knows. I also used the bike for the commute this morning - 15 miles on A-roads - sounds odd but being slightly braver and physical with the bike did make it feel better!
More miles and set up me thinks!!
TOTR will advocate and explain why a neutral or smooth acceleration will keep the suspension in the sweet spot which is more critical on a sports bike on the roads.
Got any pics of this Mille beast?
Further to a firm steering technique:
Use non-squared-off tyres on correct pressure - My recently-purchased Street Triple was awful on the knackered OEM tyres. New Michelins has transformed it.
Set sag and rebound to give a basic, balanced, non-pogoing setup front:rear before any further tweaking.
Ride it a lot - My Street was feeling good with new tyres and adjusted new rear shock fitted, but towards the end of a 250+ mile ride around Wales on Sunday, I achieved an almost Nirvana-like state on a long, open right hander on the Denbigh Moors.
Commuting this morning, the Street Triple seemed to be handling better than it had last Friday, despite the bike being the same....
Use non-squared-off tyres on correct pressure - My recently-purchased Street Triple was awful on the knackered OEM tyres. New Michelins has transformed it.
Set sag and rebound to give a basic, balanced, non-pogoing setup front:rear before any further tweaking.
Ride it a lot - My Street was feeling good with new tyres and adjusted new rear shock fitted, but towards the end of a 250+ mile ride around Wales on Sunday, I achieved an almost Nirvana-like state on a long, open right hander on the Denbigh Moors.
Commuting this morning, the Street Triple seemed to be handling better than it had last Friday, despite the bike being the same....
Edited by MC Bodge on Tuesday 15th April 12:13
very nice that!!! My first experience of a motorbike was when my mate passed his CBT and came round to mine on his RS50. I lived next to a country park which was private land and we used to do time trials round it on his bike… trying to go quick when you don't even know how to ride a bike and cornering over pine needles haha…
Always had a soft spot for that paint scheme...
Always had a soft spot for that paint scheme...
They need taking by the scruff them rsv's!
Very top heavy so feels weird after other stuff
Would agree with everyone and keep arms at 90deg to the ground and I use more pushing down on the pegs when I had my rsv as found it more controllable than counter steering on them and pulled the bars to bring it back up
Very top heavy so feels weird after other stuff
Would agree with everyone and keep arms at 90deg to the ground and I use more pushing down on the pegs when I had my rsv as found it more controllable than counter steering on them and pulled the bars to bring it back up
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