Diesel backlash

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Discussion

ORD

Original Poster:

18,120 posts

127 months

Tuesday 15th April 2014
quotequote all
After the recent smog problems and increased press coverage of the fact that diesel is still horribly polluting, do you think the gov will be forced to raise the price of diesel a lot once the economy is a bit better? It's about time everyone stopped obsessing about CO2 figures and focused on the stuff that poisons city air.

It isn't very politically attractive to 'attack' drivers of crappy Ecoboxes rather than the rich, but the current obsession with diesels as being 'green' is very hard to explain!

jmorgan

36,010 posts

284 months

Tuesday 15th April 2014
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Going to knacker a lot of people then.

McWigglebum4th

32,414 posts

204 months

Tuesday 15th April 2014
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Seeing the average annual milage in the Uk is less then 9000 miles per year i haven't a clue why diesels are so popular

Actually i do know

People are dumb

My wife works with someone who has a daily round trip commute of less then a mile. She is tradng her petrol car in for a brand new diesel audi to save money.*


Also the focus to the genral public has been CO2, CO2 and CO2 while ignoring the rest of the crap that comes out the back of a car

So while a EV produces 5 times the amount of co2 (technomatt figures) of a petrol V8 it has zero local emission so hopefully people will realise they don't drive 150 miles everyday

I think we will see more and more hybrids that are petrol and capable of running in stealth mode under batteries only

[footenote]* it gets sillier she walks home at lunch to feed the cat[/footnote]

untakenname

4,969 posts

192 months

Tuesday 15th April 2014
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I would like to see a complete ban on diesel vehicles in London, most of the pollution seems to come from busses and taxi's. Now its getting warmer you can actually visibly see how smoggy it is somedays, visibility is reduced massively where you can't even see the tops of buildings a couple of km away.

Vladimir

6,917 posts

158 months

Tuesday 15th April 2014
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Having enjoyed the benefits of a good, fast diesel, I'm me glad the car is now a petrol. Filling up is actually quite nice and it hits a higher emissions standard (6 rather than 5) than the diesel equivalent; if course it's more fun too!

Can't have a petrol van so no choice in that one.

Hub

6,434 posts

198 months

Tuesday 15th April 2014
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I have read quite a few things in the news about diesel particulates and people's health lately. However it will take a big shift in taxation to change the mindset in this country that diesel is best. Despite improvements in petrol engines in the last couple of years hardly any larger or family sized cars sold are petrols now, and as for company cars!...

jbsportstech

5,069 posts

179 months

Tuesday 15th April 2014
quotequote all
McWigglebum4th said:
Seeing the average annual milage in the Uk is less then 9000 miles per year i haven't a clue why diesels are so popular

Actually i do know

People are dumb

My wife works with someone who has a daily round trip commute of less then a mile. She is tradng her petrol car in for a brand new diesel audi to save money.*


Also the focus to the genral public has been CO2, CO2 and CO2 while ignoring the rest of the crap that comes out the back of a car

So while a EV produces 5 times the amount of co2 (technomatt figures) of a petrol V8 it has zero local emission so hopefully people will realise they don't drive 150 miles everyday

I think we will see more and more hybrids that are petrol and capable of running in stealth mode under batteries only

[footenote]* it gets sillier she walks home at lunch to feed the cat[/footnote]
i expect it was eu thing to hammer the tax on high c02 cars as that is why most people change. Retired neighbour got rid of his 3.0 jag for 1.5dci qashqui does about 10 miles a week!!!! His rational was he wasnt pay £270 plus for road tax!

Its mad and then people who actually need a diesel have to pay over the odds.

Its all to do with brainwashing people into low road tax cars with higher fuel consumptions regardless of whether they do 6 miles a week to the papershop!

Diesels kick out black smoke that cant be good but all that is forgotten and with dpf the particulates getting so small they cause respotory issues in children.

TommoAE86

2,667 posts

127 months

Tuesday 15th April 2014
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I hope it takes abit of time to get through to the public, I'm trying to offload my diesel as my commute has massively reduced so I don't need it anymore! frown

heebeegeetee

28,735 posts

248 months

Tuesday 15th April 2014
quotequote all
ORD said:
After the recent smog problems and increased press coverage of the fact that diesel is still horribly polluting, do you think the gov will be forced to raise the price of diesel a lot once the economy is a bit better? It's about time everyone stopped obsessing about CO2 figures and focused on the stuff that poisons city air.

It isn't very politically attractive to 'attack' drivers of crappy Ecoboxes rather than the rich, but the current obsession with diesels as being 'green' is very hard to explain!
What has diesel got to do with the smog? Diesel particulates are much heavier than petrol particulates. Petrol particulates are more numerous, lighter, remain airborne longer and penetrate the lungs more deeply. Diesel produces more particulate by weight, but that is not the full story.

One question I have asked repeatedly on these forums but have yet to receive an answer (and I can't be arsed to look elsewhere) - Europe has a much longer history than us of using diesel cars. In the not too distant past there used to be a huge price difference in the cost of diesel and petrol, with diesel being considerably cheaper than petrol in many European countries. This is something that was never enjoyed in the UK, and the UK really came late to the diesel car party.

Then you have to consider the numbers of hgvs that transit through many European countries, something else that doesn't happen here.

Given all this, how is that we a re supposedly suffering so much pollution from diesel than Europe?

Martin_Hx

3,955 posts

198 months

Tuesday 15th April 2014
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Due to the recent weather I've had the windows down a lot or the roof down dependant on car. Its always spolit by some smelly black smoked soot checker in front of me, blugh horrible things to follow in traffic

kambites

67,556 posts

221 months

Tuesday 15th April 2014
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heebeegeetee said:
Given all this, how is that we a re supposedly suffering so much pollution from diesel than Europe?
Are we?

The Wookie

13,946 posts

228 months

Tuesday 15th April 2014
quotequote all
McWigglebum4th said:
So while a EV produces 5 times the amount of co2 (technomatt figures) of a petrol V8
Eh??

Harji

2,198 posts

161 months

Tuesday 15th April 2014
quotequote all
Simple, the Japanese were way ahead in this (Toyota), they never fully committed to Diesel and went Hybrid, now we have hybrid sports cars, supercars, F1 cars, LMP1 cars. The West got lazy and the Brits got dumber thinking diesel is he answer.

mrtwisty

3,057 posts

165 months

Tuesday 15th April 2014
quotequote all
Martin_Hx said:
Due to the recent weather I've had the windows down a lot or the roof down dependant on car. Its always spolit by some smelly black smoked soot checker in front of me, blugh horrible things to follow in traffic
Indeed. Bloody dag dags, hate 'em!

StoatInACoat

1,354 posts

185 months

Tuesday 15th April 2014
quotequote all
The Wookie said:
McWigglebum4th said:
So while a EV produces 5 times the amount of co2 (technomatt figures) of a petrol V8
Eh??
Technomatt is an idiot that used to live in the French forums and likes making things up to support an argument nobody wants to have. I presume he is now lurking in the EV forum.

mygoldfishbowl

3,701 posts

143 months

Tuesday 15th April 2014
quotequote all
It's not only vehicles. Aircraft engines & office air conditioning also play a big part in air pollution in cities as well.

ORD

Original Poster:

18,120 posts

127 months

Tuesday 15th April 2014
quotequote all
I get the point that most car buyers dont think very deeply about the total cost of running a car, but how on Earth was anyone ever persuaded that diesel was the way to go for economy and/or the environment?

The current generation of highly complex diesels are still very polluting (in the ways that matter), do not actually get great MPG in the real world and will be worth naff all once the turbos or injectors give up (making them, in the long term, not very good value as hardware).

I'm not impressed by the efficiency of the small turbo diesels and petrols. Real world mpg is almost always around 45-50, so you spend 2/3 as much as you would if you drove something with a 3 litre petrol engine and actually enjoyed your driving. I exaggerate, but it is hardly like these things are getting 70mpg and actually saving anyone money (once you take into account purchase costs, etc).

The Wookie

13,946 posts

228 months

Tuesday 15th April 2014
quotequote all
StoatInACoat said:
Technomatt is an idiot that used to live in the French forums and likes making things up to support an argument nobody wants to have. I presume he is now lurking in the EV forum.
Ahhh, I think I vaguely remember now!

otolith

56,100 posts

204 months

Tuesday 15th April 2014
quotequote all
heebeegeetee said:
What has diesel got to do with the smog?
Oxides of nitrogen would be the main thing, not particulates.

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2012/jul/08...



heebeegeetee

28,735 posts

248 months

Tuesday 15th April 2014
quotequote all
kambites said:
Are we?
Apparently so, it seems to be the EU that is telling us that we have too much nox etc, and apparently even much of the recent smog came from Europe.