Piaggio MP3 - Good idea?

[kiethton]

Hi, looking at possibly moving into the biking fold, purely for commuting (initially).

The reason is 2 fold, I'm sick of the train fare prices (Zone 6) and the fact that a new job may see me needing to be at my desk for 6:30am. Trains into Cannon Street (allowing for the 15 minute walk) don't run before 6:30 so I would have 20 minutes from London Bridge and the hassle of driving to the station to get the train before (10 mins).

I currently cycle (1 hour) but am thinking that its a no-go given the start/finish times and distance (15 miles) especially with 12-16+ hour days likely, initially at least.

I've seen these parked up around the city and they look like a decent go-between, save me commuting costs and time whilst adding flexibility.

Can I ride one straight off the bat as they've got 3 wheels or would I have to do a CBT or test first, again would this depend on the engine size/power?

Although there is a bit of a barrier to overcome (dad had a very serious accident on the way back from work on Loampit Vale, shattering wrists, legs etc.) I like to think cycling for the past few years has given me a heads up and the off peak hours may help? It may also allow me to 'upgrade' to a proper bike in the future, something that's currently a no-go despite my hint dropping!

Do my plans make sense?

[Tampon]

kiethton said:

Hi, looking at possibly moving into the biking fold, purely for commuting (initially).

The reason is 2 fold, I'm sick of the train fare prices (Zone 6) and the fact that a new job may see me needing to be at my desk for 6:30am. Trains into Cannon Street (allowing for the 15 minute walk) don't run before 6:30 so I would have 20 minutes from London Bridge and the hassle of driving to the station to get the train before (10 mins).

I currently cycle (1 hour) but am thinking that its a no-go given the start/finish times and distance (15 miles) especially with 12-16+ hour days likely, initially at least.

I've seen these parked up around the city and they look like a decent go-between, save me commuting costs and time whilst adding flexibility.

Can I ride one straight off the bat as they've got 3 wheels or would I have to do a CBT or test first, again would this depend on the engine size/power?

Although there is a bit of a barrier to overcome (dad had a very serious accident on the way back from work on Loampit Vale, shattering wrists, legs etc.) I like to think cycling for the past few years has given me a heads up and the off peak hours may help? It may also allow me to 'upgrade' to a proper bike in the future, something that's currently a no-go despite my hint dropping!

Do my plans make sense?

Ok as a motorbiker and a large scooter rider I think I can offer some advise.

MP3 are slightly different to large scooters as some of the models are classified as trikes and therefore don;t need anything more than a car license, but you will have to look into that, quick google should sort it out for you. Also techinally those ones arenlt allowed in bus lanes or bike spots either but that seems to be a non issue. So you can ride some of the bigger ones without a cbt ( infact there is a guy in yourtube who does a Vlog in the same position as you with one).

I don;t recommend riding without a cbt, even if you don;t legally need to, it really is the most basic of training and will help you stay alive.


If it is just a bike not a trike, then you will nedd to do a cbt to ride a 125 version, but nothing bigger, for bigger you will need a bike license, again google it should sort out the details.

I would definately recommend a large scoot like this for commuting, done it for years and they are so much better and safter than a bike in my experience. better weather protection, MUCH better MPG, more storage, easier to ride through traffic with it being automatic ( really makes a difference for a newbie filtering ), seriously cheap insurance, less nickable.

They aren't cool in anyway whatsoever but you are just trying to get to work, quickley, saftey, cheaply and as easily as possible, they are brillant. If you really want comfort, get a scooter apron as well, but prepare to look a right dick.

I currently run a 400 Majesty and that is perfect for my 60 mile a day commute, cruises at 90 on the motorway and will slip through traffic dead easy and give me 50mpg +, keeps me dry when moving with a waterproof jacket on my top and nothing else. Tonnes of storage for me and my wifes bikeing stuff when we go into london and don;t want to carry it around, like both helmets, both jacket and trousers. On the way back we can bring 4-5 full bags of shopping as well.

[Tampon]

Seeing as you are coming into london I doubt you will need more than a 125 version as that will cruise at 60mph on an A road easily and give you tiny fuel and servicing bills.

Forgot to add you are just a vunerable on a MP3 as a motorbike, you will have the same accidents, you have slightly less chance of wiping out the front due to two tyres but please don;t think you are safer, it is your riding and other drivers that will cause the accidents, not just having one tyre at the front.

[Tampon]

Forgot to add MP3s are seriously expensive compared to other maxi scooter with just a single front wheel. If you feel confident enough you should have a look at those.

So in a long drawn out way yes you can ride some of them (if not all of them) on a car license, people already do, as you would a car, yes it is a good idea to commute on a scooter in general

Here is a review of another trike from piaggio that doesn;t need a bike license
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/motorbikes/877...

Please do the CBT though.


Edited to add it seems it is the 400 version that is classified as a trike and people are riding on car licenses.

[Fleegle]

Piaggio MP3 - Good idea?




NO

[kiethton]

Thanks for that Tampon much appreciated, I know the risks and guess I would be a little more prepared after cycling for a few years, I like to think I'm sensible.

I would have looked at the CBT regardless and would likely choose the Jamacia Road over the Old Kent Road (as I do know) purely from a safety aspect, again with the auto helping as I transitioned. (only previous scooter experience is on holiday - 80cc auto scooter with pillion)

The reason I was looking at the 3 wheeled version was for the license issues and stability (will read up on it further) but mainly the weather protection, I just want to be dry/comfortable!

Looks like I've got a bit of reading to do!

[kiethton]

Fleegle said:

Piaggio MP3 - Good idea?




NO

Hahaha think I've read a few of your scooter directed rants

[RumpleFugly]

Yes, buy one then take it to Randy Grubb to modify

[Mastodon2]

These MP3 thing seems to be all the downsides of a motorcycle with none of the upsides. You could get a superscooter, but I think doing your CBT and getting a geared 125 would be more rewarding in the long run. You don't get the carrying capacity of a big scooter or the weather protection for your legs, but you could get a backpack and some waterproof trousers and get on a machine that could open the door to bigger and more exciting bikes, or just stick with a 125 that is as easy to use as a scooter once you learn.

[ZesPak]

Tampon said:

Forgot to add MP3s are seriously expensive compared to other maxi scooter with just a single front wheel. If you feel confident enough you should have a look at those.

...

Edited to add it seems it is the 400 version that is classified as a trike and people are riding on car licenses.

Dismissing the added complexity of the extra wheel, these two are also directly related. Big part of their appeal is that no special license is needed.
I have two colleagues who drive one to work on a daily basis (full with "winter skirt" and big steer-gloves things) and they say it's the best thing since sliced bread.
It is fun how it works when you stop there's no need to put your legs down (wheels lock upright). I swear if you ride one of these for a month, then get on a two-wheeler, you'll fall on your side at the first stop because you'll forget to put your feet out .

In short, reviews seem to be favourable, they get decent mpg, good residuals, no need for expensive license/training and the couple of people I know love theirs so I wouldn't see why not.

As for the person who stated that a 125cc will happily "cruise" at 60mph... that seems a tad optimistic? I've ridden a number of 125cc's and getting them up to 60mph is quite the task, it included having my chin on the bars for better aero. I would say though that for city riding 125cc is all you need, with the benefit of incredible MPG (100+ seems to be no exception), and lighter weight to throw around. 15 miles would be my upper limit to do on one (a 125cc scooter) on a daily basis though, depending on the roads. If there are some roads with ~50mph limits or higher, I'd opt for a size bigger.

Mastodon2 said:

These MP3 thing seems to be all the downsides of a motorcycle with none of the upsides.

Really? Good weather protection, vast storage area, reasonable MPG, easy to ride, no requirement for special license, ....

Seems to me that for a commuter they offer more upsides than nearly any motorcycle (save for the Honda NC)? How do they offer non of the upsides of a motorcycle? They go through traffic and can be parked anywhere.

Edited by ZesPak on Tuesday 15th April 13:17

[Tampon]

kiethton said:

Thanks for that Tampon much appreciated, I know the risks and guess I would be a little more prepared after cycling for a few years, I like to think I'm sensible.

I would have looked at the CBT regardless and would likely choose the Jamacia Road over the Old Kent Road (as I do know) purely from a safety aspect, again with the auto helping as I transitioned. (only previous scooter experience is on holiday - 80cc auto scooter with pillion)

The reason I was looking at the 3 wheeled version was for the license issues and stability (will read up on it further) but mainly the weather protection, I just want to be dry/comfortable!

Looks like I've got a bit of reading to do!

I haven't ridden a three wheeler to be honest but the larger the scooter the more stable it is, so have a look at normal scooters as well.

My wife has a vespa 125 to get tot the station and I have had different maxi scooters ( the type where you have you feet forward) hers is brilliant for getting through stationary traffic and weaving in and out at low speed but not "stable" as such. The bigger scoots with longer wheelbases are so much better stability wise, filtering is still the same if you don't try getting that extra few places further forward on the A3 by the three kings light for instance.

Weather protection will be the same on all the maxi scooters ( piaggio x7/x8/x9/x10/MP3, burgman, majesty, silverwing etc most do a 125 version)

As you are doing the cbt anyway, seems the only reason to go for the MP3 is the ability to ride bigger engined bike without a bike license ( I would say unless you need to do more than 60mph for any length of time I wouldn't bother) or that you really feel you would like the extra wheel at the front.

[Tampon]

ZesPak said:

As for the person who stated that a 125cc will happily "cruise" at 60mph... that seems a tad optimistic? I've ridden a number of 125cc's and getting them up to 60mph is quite the task, it included having my chin on the bars for better aero. I would say though that for city riding 125cc is all you need, with the benefit of incredible MPG (100+ seems to be no exception), and lighter weight to throw around. 15 miles would be my upper limit to do on one (a 125cc scooter) on a daily basis though, depending on the roads. If there are some roads with ~50mph limits or higher, I'd opt for a size bigger.

That was me buddy. I was talking about the 125 maxi scooters, they can cruise at 60, they are geared slightly longer than a little sit up and beg scoot, the x9 125 will so will the burgman and go upto 70 with a run but cruising at that speed isn't something you would want to do. Makes them slightly slower away from the lights compared to a Runner 125 but this is for commuting not bombing it about.

As the smaller engined maxis are the same size as the bigger engine one they are very comfortable for long distances.

I would get a numb bum on my x9 250 (identical to the 125) after 150 miles straight, I rode my majesty from Scarbrough back to surrey when I bought it and a leg stretch at the fuel fill up at 200 miles was all I needed.

Oh that is another thing, the maxi scooters have a huge petrol tank compared to vespa type scoots, X9 125 will do nearly 250 miles between fill ups, where as my wifes vespa needs £6 chucking in every 80-90 miles.

I think your best bet is to do your CBT on a maxi scooter ( ring and ask the centres if they have one) so you learn on two wheels and get a feel for that and for a bigger maxi scoot then test a bigger MP3 for a test ride, then you can compare the feeling of both 2 and 3 wheels and the smaller engine versus the bigger.

Also riding all year round in all weathers will give you a good basis for riding bigger stuff when you get a license, especially compared to middleaged born again fair weathered sports bike riders.

Edited by Tampon on Tuesday 15th April 13:33

[Mastodon2]

ZesPak said:

Really? Good weather protection, vast storage area, reasonable MPG, easy to ride, no requirement for special license, ....

Seems to me that for a commuter they offer more upsides than nearly any motorcycle (save for the Honda NC)? How do they offer non of the upsides of a motorcycle? They go through traffic and can be parked anywhere.

Edited by ZesPak on Tuesday 15th April 13:17

I'd have thought the width would be a limiter, when you see people folding their mirrors in to filter more effectively I doubt a 3 wheeler could follow. Also, you're still pretty much completely exposed to the weather in the same way as you are on the bike - there is some leg protection but it hardly. bridges the gap to a car, and you're just as vulnerable in a crash.

[ZesPak]

Mastodon2 said:

I'd have thought the width would be a limiter, when you see people folding their mirrors in to filter more effectively I doubt a 3 wheeler could follow. Also, you're still pretty much completely exposed to the weather in the same way as you are on the bike - there is some leg protection but it hardly. bridges the gap to a car, and you're just as vulnerable in a crash.

So the one argument that could be held against them (compared to a bike) could be width?
Maybe we should settle this then:
MP3 400 = 29.3"
CBF 600 S = 29.9"
CBR 600 = 27"

That's including mirrors (which also fold), without the mirrors the width is restricted by the bars, which are no wider than on a 2 wheeler. Sorry, still can't see how these offer "all of the downsides and none of the upsides".

[Tampon]

Mastodon2 said:

I'd have thought the width would be a limiter, when you see people folding their mirrors in to filter more effectively I doubt a 3 wheeler could follow. Also, you're still pretty much completely exposed to the weather in the same way as you are on the bike - there is some leg protection but it hardly. bridges the gap to a car, and you're just as vulnerable in a crash.

Sorry mate, they are exactly the same as a maxi scooter in width, which are the same as most bikes. Filtering won;t be a issue any more than it is on mine, and I can normally out filter sportsbike rider going in on the M4/A4/A40 as they are more maneuverable and better turning circles.

Unless you have ridden a Maxi scoot I doubt you can believe how good they are with weather protection, genuinely the reason my trousers would get wet was because either I had to stop in a down pour or becuase the water dripping off my helmet fell right in my crotch.

They are maxi scooter, with all the benefits over a motorbike (I wouldn;t commute on either of my Motorbikes unless it was a serious lovely day and I want to enjoy the ride after work), just with a extra wheel and can be ridden without a bike license. As such they seem to fit the bill for lots of people.

[edeath]

Im glad you are thinking about doing your CBT.

Unfortunately, from my experience, these 3 wheeled scooters seem to be ridden by complete idiots who seem to have had no training at all. Luckily you can hear them beep when the suspension locks coming up to the lights so you are warned when one is near you!

[kiethton]

edeath said:

Im glad you are thinking about doing your CBT.

Unfortunately, from my experience, these 3 wheeled scooters seem to be ridden by complete idiots who seem to have had no training at all. Luckily you can hear them beep when the suspension locks coming up to the lights so you are warned when one is near you!

From a current cycle commuter I agree! If it did happen I would be the exception to the rule i'd hope!

Thankyou for all of the advice, looks to be a bit of opinion either way, I'm still undecided between these and a standard scooter/maxi.

I want a geared bike ultimately but given the nature of the journey I can't see the advantages, also given the difficulties faced with family given my dad's massive accident I am just pondering the 3 wheeler as an easier sell to those with no interest etc.

I was offered the job this morning so now its becoming more real! I would have just taken the train but it would be 5 mins plus parking to Orpington (Zone 6) or 10 mins to Lee (Zone 3) plus 5 min walk, 20 min train (in either circumstance) then a 20 min walk. The bike would be 40 mins, total (assuming that spaces in the City motorbike bays would be available at 06:30?). Are these still free?

re. the 125/300/400 cc issue I'm not light (95-110 kg's dependent on stage of health kick) and need to use the A20 and the hills on it from Orpington so was thinking the 300?

[Tampon]

kiethton said:

I'm still undecided between these and a standard scooter/maxi.

I was offered the job this morning so now its becoming more real! I would have just taken the train but it would be 5 mins plus parking to Orpington (Zone 6) or 10 mins to Lee (Zone 3) plus 5 min walk, 20 min train (in either circumstance) then a 20 min walk. The bike would be 40 mins, total (assuming that spaces in the City motorbike bays would be available at 06:30?). Are these still free?

re. the 125/300/400 cc issue I'm not light (95-110 kg's dependent on stage of health kick) and need to use the A20 and the hills on it from Orpington so was thinking the 300?

Have a try, you could save yourself a few quid on purchase price or the bother of having to get a license so maybe works out about the same?

It costs a £1 a day parking, but you get discount for a years permit ( not much for the year I think around £100?, just a Google should sort it) You will find loads of spaces at 6.30, i park in Covent Garden and Oxford Street at 8-8.30 and there are spaces still.

I am 6ft 5in and 18 stone, so I feel your pain chubby brother ;-), you could manage on a 125 but you would slow slightly on the hills, probably best you have a 250 at least. The good thing about 250 maxi scoots is no one wants them if they have come from a Motorbike as they think they are too slow, learners can;t ride them because the are too big for their license. Mine was fine one up cruising at 70, hills and all but with a pillion it would slow down a touch on hills.

Sound like the 300MP3 might be the easiest simplest way for you to get started. 300 will be more than enough for you and I would imagine you could cruise at well over 70, topping out at 90. These maxi scooter cruise well about 10-15mph off their top speed.

[J B L]

There are other manufacturers also now offering 3 wheelers.

Peugeot: http://www.peugeotscooters.co.uk/peugeot-scooters-...

Yamaha Tricity (125cc only): http://www.yamaha-motor.eu/uk/products/scooters/ne...

[Tampon]

Found the guy on youtube review of the 500 version who doesn't have a bike license

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiUgTxPzL6E


I have seen a few in london with the masisve screen


Also seen you can get full roof for them now that attaches to the above!