997.1 RS slow speed, straight damp road, lost control, why?

[ORD]

Porsche should probably stop selling cars on tyres that only work on the 23 dry days a year that we have in this country

[mikem7709]

I like to shave my balls as I find I get better head, so where do other road users stand around me ? Am I safe or a liability ?

Maybe insurance companies should add in an extra question for wether you have hairy balls or not ??

[ORD]

Do you take an average across both (all?) of your balls? Is it a weighted average?

[mikem7709]

I believe the standardised approved method is to dangle them into a Spyder drivers mouth and get them to rate them on a saltiness scale from 1-100

[Posh868]

gfreeman said:

Once upon a time I stupidly drove to Spa on very worn cups when the heavens opened just south of Folkstone - and continued for most of the rest of the trip.

Fingertip control, a tight sphincter and large cahunas were swung into action.

By the time I got to Stavelot my underpants had been sucked into the old starfish and I couldn't see over the steering wheel thingy...

My, how we larfed....

;o)


Holy crap, you guys do talk a load of junk. I got to laugh. lol

Yea, you might be right, the old girl is a bit hard to handle, but back in the day the turbo was not an easy machine either!, the '73 Carrera RS used to spin out as well, they all do .. its that whole 'engine out over the back' thing .. you either love a 911 or you don't.

Let me tell you again, put yourself in one of these, with your foot planted, and you'll understand why there's nothing like it.. crazy fast, and it howls!, 100mph in 2nd gear.

In the dry this beast sticks like glue, but in the wet I'm going to be going really slow .. haha

Please someone find the thread with the other Porsches spinning out and post the links. I got to read that.

Edited by Posh868 on Friday 18th April 02:01

[d41d8cd9]

mrdemon said:

note to self, "don't follow GT3 owners to close in the damp, esp ones with small non hairy balls " ;-p

that's about all that's come out of this thread then :-)

You'd struggle to keep up with them anyway, so I doubt it's much of a concern for you.

[Trev450]

d41d8cd9 said:

mrdemon said:

note to self, "don't follow GT3 owners to close in the damp, esp ones with small non hairy balls " ;-p

that's about all that's come out of this thread then :-)

You'd struggle to keep up with them anyway, so I doubt it's much of a concern for you.

You are making the assumption that all GT3's are driven as they were intended - my experience of encountering them on track doesn't support that assumption. Plenty are driven very well indeed, but not all!

[Dave211]

Must have aquaplaned and you were unlucky to have your eyes off the road in front of you at the time.

I got caught out in the rain one evening in my 7.1 GT3, roads wet enough for spray , with rear tyres just above legal limit. I was impressed at the speed one could keep up on the twisties, as long as driving very smoothly.

I've also aquaplaned on motorways with the car, but was prepared for the upcoming standing water, whilst tightly clenching buttocks . No one likes to aquaplane !

Edited by Dave211 on Saturday 19th April 03:14

[Helicopter123]

Perhaps a classic case of "watch this..."

[Alpinestars]

I'm amazed at the number of people having moments in a straight line in these. Tyres aside for a minute, in theory, they should have more traction under power than most rwd, "high powered" cars because of the engine position. So we can't really blame it on the car. As far as the diff being aggressive goes, it's probably no more aggressive than some other diffs and surely only gets "aggressive" with the application of sufficient power. So are people really surprised that they lose traction when they are driven hard in the wet, under power?

If people are losing them in a straight line when not under a lot of power, it has to be the tyres or the road surface. It's not an inherently dangerous car like it being made out to be. You'd get the same results in other cars with inappropriate tyres or inappropriate use of power eg an M3 (remember all the disclaimers about the CSL), TVR (all the myths about how dangerous they are) etc, etc.

These cars demand a level of respect, not unlike many other cars.

[pistolp]

If it was the cars everyone would complain of it!

[slodge]

It's so difficult to say what happened in this instance as none of us apart from the OP were there. My own experience is that GT3s have a lot of traction esp if you appreciate and work the weight situation to your advantage. They are pretty friendly in a drift, again if you get the physics. Never heard of one spinning in a straight line for no reason.

2 weeks ago I drove my 6.2 GT3 to Spa in probably the worst rain I have ever witnessed from inside a car - it performed faultlessly and was nicely confidence inspiring. Right tyres for the conditions and a great geo undoubtedly helped.

Have heard some hairy stories on properly worn Cups, but then driving any car on slicks in the rain ain't gonna end well!

Cheers

Slodge

[Posh868]

OK, I found some straight line and other interesting threads on Rennlist ..

I suppose it would be ok to post some links?

991 Written off at 50 mph while responsibly driving
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/991-gt3/8010...

Pilot Sport tyres 'very cold weather sensitive' compared to others
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/porsche-supe...

997 Loss of control blamed on the PSM
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/997-turbo-fo...

3 More GT3's aquaplane at around 50mph in these posts
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
This car (first in thread) aquaplaned at 70 .. http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

Aquaplane at 40 mph
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/997-gt2-gt3-...

Lots of track accidents, but all reinforce that in the wet these cars are very hard to handle and will spin on you unpredictably, many experienced drivers left scratching their head ..
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/997-gt2-gt3-...

Seems like fairly slow speed aquaplaning is a huge issue! no matter what tyres you have ..

Its very easy to say 'I don't believe he was going that slow', or 'oh that guy was going too fast' or 'should be going slower in the wet', or 'that man cant drive'. But how slow is slow enough? 60mph on the motorway in the wet without rain? 50? 40?

I feel that I have done enough research now to determine that:

1. most if not all of these stories are in fact true, it has happened to me, and like me these guys have nothing to loose by sharing factual accounts of what happened
2. the GT3 should be driven exceptionally slowly and carefully in the wet, there are just too many accounts of loss of control in wet conditions at legal speeds
3. standing water is extremely hazardous to these cars due to the light front-end
4. unpredictable spins can occur in the wet with no warning which require a large amount of skill (much more so than for any other car) to overcome

In closing, one comment that stuck is when asked "what tyres do you put on your GT3 in the wet?" one experienced driver said "slicks! because she goes right up onto the trailer" - haha - no wet driving at all for him!

So when you pass a 997.1 GT3 RS going 50mph in the slow lane in the wet, that'll be me! .. and I'll be laughing at how ridiculous it is as well!

Edited by Posh868 on Tuesday 22 April 21:06

[Alpinestars]

Last one looks like driving inappropriately for the conditions, middle one is the "Paul Walker" CGT? And with respect to the driver of the 991 gt3, not sure I buy the fact that the car was being driven at sensible speeds in a straight line and decided to throw a wobbly with no driver error or something to make it lose traction, eg, oil.

[fioran0]

Posh868 said:

OK, I found some straight line and other interesting threads on Rennlist ..

I suppose it would be ok to post some links?

991 Written off at 50 mph while responsibly driving
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/991-gt3/8010...

Pilot Sport tyres 'very cold weather sensitive' compared to others
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/porsche-supe...

997 Loss of control blamed on the PSM
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/997-turbo-fo...

3 More GT3's aquaplane at around 50mph in these posts
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
This car (first in thread) aquaplaned at 70 .. http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

Aquaplane at 40 mph
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/997-gt2-gt3-...

Seems like slow speed aquaplaning is a huge issue! no matter what tyres you have ..
Will edit and add more as I find them ..

Wasn't your original post looking to apportion blame on your event to the diff? You are now just posting random things that have happened to cars you have found on the internet. Maybe a secret govt test programme fired a pulse wave device at your car and knocked it off of the road? theres probably a post of that somewhere online to validate the hypothesis.

The diff in the 997 is weak, really weak. It only has 28/40 lock up using friction discs that wear out very fast and has almost zero preload even when new. The weak diff is designed to ensure that TC can work away without interference. Unless you only have a handful miles on your car its likely that the diff is essentially open (and assuming you are still on a standard diff rather than a track upgrade using guard or similar) and incapable of doing anything.
Anything is possible but its seriously unlikely that the diff caused your spin. Regular aquaplaning may very well be the cause though but no one will ever know.

As for your links:
1. who knows what was going on there.
2. they are talking about MPSC, not PS2. totally different tire.
3. modified turbo with awd crashes in what looks like a typical aquaplane situation while doing the Gumball. OP blames PSM. Could be. You don't have PSM. I bet owner is glad he didn't fit lightweight doors as well as those front wings.
4. aquaplane while on MPSC. Others in thread agree that MPSC in the wet isn't fun. Im not sure you would find anyone to disagree. MPSC new have 4.76mm of tread IIRC. What were you at? 3-4mm?
5. driver aquaplaned and says so as part of a wider discussion about the merits and limits of TC.

I don't see how any of those add anything to your view that the diff was your culprit or what seems like a position that the cars are somehow inherently treacherous.
Indeed every single link is irrelevant unless the point is to show that aquaplaning can happen to Porsche cars just as it can with any other car. If that is your aim you could have just said so. No one will argue against that I am sure.
It sucks that you had your incident, I am sure everyone feels that but I don't really see what you are looking for?

Edited by fioran0 on Tuesday 22 April 20:32

[GreatPretender]

Posh868 said:

OK, I found some straight line and other interesting threads on Rennlist ..

I suppose it would be ok to post some links?

991 Written off at 50 mph while responsibly driving
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/991-gt3/8010...

Pilot Sport tyres 'very cold weather sensitive' compared to others
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/porsche-supe...

997 Loss of control blamed on the PSM
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/997-turbo-fo...

3 More GT3's aquaplane at around 50mph in these posts
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
This car (first in thread) aquaplaned at 70 .. http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

Aquaplane at 40 mph
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/997-gt2-gt3-...

Seems like slow speed aquaplaning is a huge issue! no matter what tyres you have ..
Will edit and add more as I find them ..

Without even looking at those threads, I can determine one thing: driver error caused those crashes. Nothing else. I'm completely baffled by the amount of ste being spoken in this thread!

Christ, next you'll be telling me the GT3 is responsible for the disappernece of MH370!

Cars don't just fall off the road (catastrophic mechanical failure notwithstanding). They have to be driven off the road.

[N24]

Having just picked up my RS - this thread was in my thoughts whenever I prodded the throttle - there's an immense amount of power that can be unleashed in a 10mm movement of the foot - and at the wrong time on the wrong surface only bad things will happen...

I'm sure with time I may become accustomed, however on MPSC's, cold mornings, damp patches, being wary of the environment is paramount to making progress.

[Posh868]

Yes, based on the feedback and research, I've all but ruled out the diff as the issue.

I do believe that in summary all those links conclude that the car (911 in general, possibly GT3 especially) can be unpredictable, and if this thread serves for others to be overly careful with theirs, then great. I for one am totally surprised by the findings and totally didn't expect this behaviour from the car.

And yes again, if you were a terrifically experienced driver, with much drifting and car control under your belt, and lightening fast reflexes; you may stand a chance when she decides to go.

But .. if you're like me with only 8 trackdays, no racing experience, and a moderate knowledge of car control, you've a high risk of crashing. So be careful.

[hman]

Had ps2's on an Audi a few years back, in the cold weather they went like a sort of plastic and were shockingly bad below 6C

[ttdan]

Oh boy, the internet has a lot to answer for sometimes. Its not the car thats the unpredictable thing in this equation.