Dangerous car park markings?
Discussion
This afternoon I'm trying to find a space to park in the image related car park. Admittedly this car park is unfamiliar to me so I'm more cautious than usual; speed is <10 mph and I'm careful to observe the arrow markings on the main circuit. Despite my caution, a woman narrowly avoids 't-boning' my drivers side. Fortunately she managed to 'slam on' and stop just inside of the box junction - dirty looks suggesting I was at fault. IMO she was carrying too much speed and should have practised more caution, but that's not the point of the post.
I've since looked at the car park on google maps in an attempt to figure out who was at fault. Despite (IMO) the woman's poor observation and unsuitable speed, in my opinion the car park markings are bordering on negligent - requesting opinions on this. The yellow box junctions and the main circuit effectively form unmarked cross roads with no give way lines (effectively no one has priority?). The box junctions suggests that stopping is forbidden and one must exit onto the main circuit without giving way. I assume the purpose of the box junctions are to stop vehicles blocking the run to the single main exit, in which case the use of the box junctions are incorrect and give the wrong message.
Would it be correct to assume a 50/50 insurance claim if a collision had occurred? Frankly I'd be pissed off at the hassle and loss of NCB in the event of a collision, due to negligent road markings. I'm not usually one to complain, but I'm inclined to inform someone with responsibility that their car park is basically st.
I've since looked at the car park on google maps in an attempt to figure out who was at fault. Despite (IMO) the woman's poor observation and unsuitable speed, in my opinion the car park markings are bordering on negligent - requesting opinions on this. The yellow box junctions and the main circuit effectively form unmarked cross roads with no give way lines (effectively no one has priority?). The box junctions suggests that stopping is forbidden and one must exit onto the main circuit without giving way. I assume the purpose of the box junctions are to stop vehicles blocking the run to the single main exit, in which case the use of the box junctions are incorrect and give the wrong message.
Would it be correct to assume a 50/50 insurance claim if a collision had occurred? Frankly I'd be pissed off at the hassle and loss of NCB in the event of a collision, due to negligent road markings. I'm not usually one to complain, but I'm inclined to inform someone with responsibility that their car park is basically st.
I would guess in the event of an accident it would be a 50 : 50, due to the insurance company expecting both drivers to be equally aware of the no parking junctions / marked out areas, and to be aware of traffic approaching from both sides.
I don't think it a particularly bad laid out car park, quite common to be honest.
Woman just half asleep driving?
I don't think it a particularly bad laid out car park, quite common to be honest.
Woman just half asleep driving?
With no give way markings, I think any sensible person would assume that the main thoroughfares along the rows would take priority, and extreme care would be needed when merging from the short yellow box areas. It does sound like she was not taking enough care. The use of the yellow boxes is confusing, and could mislead people into and assuming it is safe to clear them by driving straight on, as she did.
I agree with your take on this OP.
I agree with your take on this OP.
Magic919 said:
The 'box junctions' are no such thing. They denote areas where you may not park, IMO.
Exactly. And it's obvious, because at the entrance to the box there is no way to determine if the exit of the box is clear until you get to the exit, so you couldn't use it in the same way as a box junction.Pretty sure the boxes are just no parking areas.
Everyone should be exercising enough caution to prevent collisions.
I have seen many car parks much worse than that. Some busy roads are so thin and have no warnings that the white lines actually force cars together due to lack of available width if nobody paid attention.
Everyone should be exercising enough caution to prevent collisions.
I have seen many car parks much worse than that. Some busy roads are so thin and have no warnings that the white lines actually force cars together due to lack of available width if nobody paid attention.
The hatched areas denote 'do not park here you dipstick', they're not boxed junctions - the three large ones are not in the junctions i.e. where traffic intersects, but within the rows of cars. With no other markings as a guide, cars from every direction should proceed with equal caution. This would seem to have happened in the OP's case as no collision took place; both drivers were able to bring their car to a halt within the distance they could see to be clear.
I think the general rule in car-parks is simply "drive slowly and expect to have to stop at any time". Priority markings are usually a bad thing because some people completely ignore them and some people rely on others taking notice of them; a complete lack of markings should force everyone to be careful.
As someone said above, those orange bits aren't a box junction as such, they're just there to make it bloody obvious that people shouldn't park there.
As someone said above, those orange bits aren't a box junction as such, they're just there to make it bloody obvious that people shouldn't park there.
Monty Python said:
We have a similar arrangement in our work car park, and the rule is that you give way to people coming from the left. After all, of you were pulling out of a parking space you wouldn't automatically expect someone to stop to let you out.
Out of interest, is this rule informal among the people in the office, or is it signed, almost as an instruction as you enter the car park? It's a silly layout, the boxed areas should be blocked from everyday traffic and for emergency vehicles only, and a one-way circulation applied to the rest of the car park. Whatever, I'd say having more than a minor bump in a car park would be the result of some fairly moronic driving / lack of observation.
kambites said:
I think the general rule in car-parks is simply "drive slowly and expect to have to stop at any time". Priority markings are usually a bad thing because some people completely ignore them and some people rely on others taking notice of them; a complete lack of markings should force everyone to be careful.
As someone said above, those orange bits aren't a box junction as such, they're just there to make it bloody obvious that people shouldn't park there.
Absolutely spot on, but in reality I see some of the worst driving in car parks. Our local station car park has no markings it's like an old style Le Mans start after a train arrives. There have been a few scrapes but it's a matter of time before there's something serious. Best strategy is to wait 5 minutes max and they've all gone.As someone said above, those orange bits aren't a box junction as such, they're just there to make it bloody obvious that people shouldn't park there.
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