Is it time to restrict HGV's to inside lane?

[anonymous-user]

aww999 said:

Nope, this was definitely just lorries. Accelerating so slowly from each roundabout or junction that they barely touched 40mph before starting to slow for the next one. This meant I had ample opportunity to observe the streams of traffic heading towards me, each clot on our transport arteries comprised of a dozen or so cars, impotently following some lumbering HGV at ~50% of the sensible speed for the roads. I realise it's not the HGV driver's fault, but it is massively frustrating and I see little benefit. Even raising their speed limit to 50mph on a-roads would be a start, but I doubt it will ever happen.

I do appreciate that you mention it's not our fault, however what you have posted pretty much sums up the whole problem!
You say that we are lumbering along at -50% of the sensible speed for the road, for you in a car maybe, but for me not a chance, car drivers don't have some magic priority on the roads you know.
I fully accept that there are stretches of road where 50mph might be appropriate and trials have been mentioned but I wouldn't hold my breath. Just do me a favour next time you are stuck behind a truck doing 40mph, look around you, look for junctions, entrances to fields, layby's even businesses and then think how quickly you can slow down from 40 or 60 if some numpty pulled out or took a chance? It's not just about nice straight roads, it's about risk, about forward planning for possible problems, further forward than the end of the bonnet!
Where you mention that the trucks accelerated slowly between junctions and roundabouts it's not done to hack you off believe it or not. It's very hard not to pull out the " if you haven't driven one you don't know" card but it applies here. Apart from the fact it could be up to 44t and it takes time anyway you should look atmwasting fuel and pointless wear on the brakes it is actually better and safer to drive smoothly, albeit slowly, to maintain control over 44t of truck, again if you are passing junctions what if someone pulls out, if you're approaching a roundabout it's better for all concerned to try to maintain movement so you can try to clear the roundabout without having to stop. How much more annoying is it to have one stopped and trying to get on a roundabout? If I approach slowly I might spot a gap or a blocker that means I can get through it without having to stop.
Sorry to sound all preachy but a vast amount of HGV drivers are careful and mindfull of other traffic because it's really in their
own interest to keep things moving. I accept of course that you will find utter bell ends in trucks but I would hazard a guess that they are the same in a car, however as I have said before, when they hack you off in a car they are gone in seconds but when they do it in a truck they are there much longer and with a greater risk.
We are not all like that.......................

Edit: you can guess from the name as to where I was dragged up so I guess you just have to accept these things in a rural area, from sugar beet lorries to tractors and horses, not forgetting of course the joy of rounding a corner to find a combine minus blades approaching, they're not small are they!!

Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 19th April 18:37

[GC8]

You are wasting your breath. They know it all, despite having little or no idea why their suggestions are so foolish.

[mclwanB]

Haven't got time to read the whole thread but the German situation works well- if the road starts to descend into gridlock trucks are banned from the outside lane and this is enforced with cameras. As soon as the traffic lifts restriction ends.

Best of both worlds? It does really seem to be of benefit

[P1H]

dacouch said:

surveyor said:

You often cannot predict a HGV overtake. Where they are not catching each other quickly they can to a fast moving car look like they are quite happy nose to tailing.... It's only when they present their trailer as a target that you realise they are not.

I find it very easy to predict a HGV overtake, if they're very close to the HGV in front and dabbing they're brakes they want to over take.

Solution if you're in lane two and there's no traffic behind you move into the outside lane and flash them out so they can overtake.

Most car drivers don't take into account some will want to overtake and just overtake them in lane two in a mass bloke of traffic so they don't get the chance. Treat them like you should any other vehicle driver. That is to be civil and help out if you can.

I actually agree with the OP in some respects. So many times I've been overtaking a lorry, to have them pull out with little or no notice and with no where to go due to the outside lane blocked by a car overtaking me. I'm not suggesting cars haven't done this, but the majority of the really dangerous occasions have been HGVs.

You speak about courtesy, but a lot of the time drivers are not given the courtesy of time to allow the HGV out or move slowly to the outside lane.

I'd be amazed if there aren't a lot of similar experiences here. I don't know if limiting HGVs is the answer, but I at least agree with the OP this is a real problem.

[corozin]

Frankly I get far more aggravated by car drivers who pull out to overtake a 56mph truck and then proceed to do so at 58mph. And there are plenty of those...

[FisiP1]

Panda76 said:

FisiP1 said:

Safer HGV designs are the most practical answer I think.

It was in the news a few days ago; a MAN concept that looked pretty good to me. More aerodynamic to incentivise haulage companies to buy them, fully cowled all around to stop cyclists/bikers/cars from getting tangled under the trailer, and crash structures on the cab to minimise frontal collision energies.

It has always amazed me how safety-conscious the modern world is, and yet the HGVs feel like a relic of decades and decades ago. Bars that are supposed to stop cars going under them are often very weak, while the strongest part of the trailer is at a drivers chest/head level.

The only disadvantage of the new design is that they are a bit longer than current HGVs, but there is probably a way to minimise the problems with this.

All MAN have to do now is stop using cheap plastics so the interior doesn't fall to pieces, find a better electronics supplier and make the engine and gearbox reliable. People might buy them then.

On a more serious note, a fully aero dynamic trailer with cowling is a good idea and they are around at the moment. However these trailers have one enemy. Over zealous fork truck drivers driving into the trailer and smashing the cowling up. My place of work had one made up, withing one week it was in for repair, sides smashed in by a fork truck. They didn't go head and have the rest of the new trailers fitted with side skirts.
Bars down the sides of the trailers are designed to push cyclists/motor cyclists away, common misconception they are to stop cars, they aren't. The only part of the trailer designed to stop a car is the rear bumper bar, even then, if a car hits it hard enough there is a good chance of ramming the car under the trailer.

Yep, although I can't remember whether this was in the states or over here that I watched this, but there was a test done on those rear bars on trailers that demonstrated very few of them are strong enough to do anything about cars submarining under them (at non-trivial speeds, obviously). There is definitely room for improvements.

[keslake]

P1H said:

I actually agree with the OP in some respects. So many times I've been overtaking a lorry, to have them pull out with little or no notice and with no where to go due to the outside lane blocked by a car overtaking me. I'm not suggesting cars haven't done this, but the majority of the really dangerous occasions have been HGVs.

You speak about courtesy, but a lot of the time drivers are not given the courtesy of time to allow the HGV out or move slowly to the outside lane.

I'd be amazed if there aren't a lot of similar experiences here. I don't know if limiting HGVs is the answer, but I at least agree with the OP this is a real problem.

Thanks for the voice of reason.

You would of thought i had suggested removing HGV's from the road entirely after reading some of the responses on
here.
Fact of the matter is the minority of truckers do the majority no favours, same with car drivers and motorcyclists.
At the end of the day it is the dangerous, ignorant, arrogant ones who are a liability, be that on 2, 4 or 16 wheels.

[Jonny_]

As always, a dose of common sense and consideration FROM BOTH SIDES would go a long way.

Car drivers, if it's reasonably quiet on the road, what do you lose dropping down to HGV speeds for half a minute? Flash the guy out, 9 times out of 10 he'll wave thanks as you pass or give you the "left-right-left-right" indicator flash, then flash you back in. Very civilised, and the poor sod in the truck is not compelled to force his way out as car after car ignores his indicators.

Conversely, HGV drivers, if it's a busy 2-lane road and your speed difference is next to nothing, suck it up and follow the other guy until you can overtake without generating a quarter-of-a-mile tailback. A lot of congestion builds up as this happens over and over again along a given stretch of road. You'll save a bit of fuel too as you sit in your mate's slipstream

(Some transport managers/co-ordinators need a kick here, too, as I suspect "optimistic"/unreasonable timescales are a cause of frustrated drivers taking risks...)

Certain stretches of road, at certain times, a ban on HGVs in the right-hand lane makes sense. But definitely not as a blanket rule. As an example: If the volume of traffic has dragged speeds down below 56mph, there's no reason the HGVs should be restricted to the left lane.

Also, as mentioned before, on certain stretches of single-carriageway A-road it would be entirely reasonable and eminently sensible to allow the wagons to travel at 56mph.

Of course, I see the flaw in my ideology. Expecting a bit of common sense and consideration from people is up there with expecting the Petrol Fairy to visit overnight and top my tank up...