One bike to do it all--So which one then ?
Discussion
I'm of the opinion that if I can do 3 figure speeds then I'm on the wrong road, hence I love the smaller adventure type bikes because they're great on the twisties but still comfortable enough to ride all day with all my camping gear on the back. I've got a few mates with bigger ones (Explorer, super tenere and GS) and while they're great tourers part of me thinks they're just a bit to heavy.
3DP said:
The point is digressing though - the OP (Chipchap) asked this question.
So the great & the good of PHBB which one can offer the best compromise between :--
190 BHP Sleek Sports Bike
130 BHP Uphandlebar
125 BHP Tourer / Adventure Bike
Clearly a VFR1200X is not a compromise between these as it sits firmly in the 3rd category. It's not knocking the bike - it's where it sits. Honda's competition for the R1200GS and Triumph 1200 Adventure. A VFR1200F would be closer to the mark.
I'm not sure if you had a duff ZZR or an 06/07 one without the butterflies mod, but I'm not sure how you can think a bike weighing 275 kg with a 19 inch front tyre, no weight on the front wheel and a detuned version of the already weakest sports touring engine, is somehow more effective and better handling, point to point than a ZZR or K13 for the OP's criteria.?? In fact, having ridden a couple of Adventure bikes, unless it was a potholed narrow B road, I cannot think of any road where it would be quicker than a ZZR/K13 with a decent rider aboard.
This isn't a thread for the best 'all rounder'. The OP has a Speed Triple and a modified 190bhp MV Agusta F4 1078 and was considering a VFR1200F a short while ago. He's looking for a bike that will cover those 3 bikes' USPs to a degree, which means loads of power and torque, wind protection, touring and scratching ability. There are only really a hand full of bikes that can do all of those with some success without compromising too far other aspects and anything adventure tourer does not cover the power and sporty handling side of the equation. Only the KTM 1290 Adventure and Multistrada get close. In the same way, a Fireblade or R1 does not cover the comfort, tank range or easy hard luggage side of the equation.
A VFR800 might be a good option, but for the OP, it has sub 600cc super sports level of power and is still quite porky, so I wouldn't recommend that either in spite of the fabled V4 torque which in reality is one of the most over-used cliches going these days.
Chipchap - another bike coming to mind is the Kawasaki Z1000SX. Not mega power, but light enough to offset the deficit compared to other bikes mentioned.
My ZZR was an 07 and I did the 2ndry fly mod. Was a fantastic bike in a straight line ( was dyno'd at 180bhp at the rear wheel) no doubt but the title of this thread is one bike to 'do-it-all' and from my experience an adventure style bike witha 4 cyl engine is much closer to this aim than a 'sports tourer' type bike such as the ZZR based on many years owning sports tourers and now an adventure.So the great & the good of PHBB which one can offer the best compromise between :--
190 BHP Sleek Sports Bike
130 BHP Uphandlebar
125 BHP Tourer / Adventure Bike
Clearly a VFR1200X is not a compromise between these as it sits firmly in the 3rd category. It's not knocking the bike - it's where it sits. Honda's competition for the R1200GS and Triumph 1200 Adventure. A VFR1200F would be closer to the mark.
I'm not sure if you had a duff ZZR or an 06/07 one without the butterflies mod, but I'm not sure how you can think a bike weighing 275 kg with a 19 inch front tyre, no weight on the front wheel and a detuned version of the already weakest sports touring engine, is somehow more effective and better handling, point to point than a ZZR or K13 for the OP's criteria.?? In fact, having ridden a couple of Adventure bikes, unless it was a potholed narrow B road, I cannot think of any road where it would be quicker than a ZZR/K13 with a decent rider aboard.
This isn't a thread for the best 'all rounder'. The OP has a Speed Triple and a modified 190bhp MV Agusta F4 1078 and was considering a VFR1200F a short while ago. He's looking for a bike that will cover those 3 bikes' USPs to a degree, which means loads of power and torque, wind protection, touring and scratching ability. There are only really a hand full of bikes that can do all of those with some success without compromising too far other aspects and anything adventure tourer does not cover the power and sporty handling side of the equation. Only the KTM 1290 Adventure and Multistrada get close. In the same way, a Fireblade or R1 does not cover the comfort, tank range or easy hard luggage side of the equation.
A VFR800 might be a good option, but for the OP, it has sub 600cc super sports level of power and is still quite porky, so I wouldn't recommend that either in spite of the fabled V4 torque which in reality is one of the most over-used cliches going these days.
Chipchap - another bike coming to mind is the Kawasaki Z1000SX. Not mega power, but light enough to offset the deficit compared to other bikes mentioned.
By the way, the VFR1200F puts out 170bhp, same at the K1300S
Edited by Silver993tt on Monday 21st April 20:24
3DP said:
The point is digressing though - the OP (Chipchap) asked this question.
So the great & the good of PHBB which one can offer the best compromise between :--
190 BHP Sleek Sports Bike
130 BHP Uphandlebar
125 BHP Tourer / Adventure Bike
Clearly a VFR1200X is not a compromise between these as it sits firmly in the 3rd category. It's not knocking the bike - it's where it sits. Honda's competition for the R1200GS and Triumph 1200 Adventure. A VFR1200F would be closer to the mark.
I'm not sure if you had a duff ZZR or an 06/07 one without the butterflies mod, but I'm not sure how you can think a bike weighing 275 kg with a 19 inch front tyre, no weight on the front wheel and a detuned version of the already weakest sports touring engine, is somehow more effective and better handling, point to point than a ZZR or K13 for the OP's criteria.?? In fact, having ridden a couple of Adventure bikes, unless it was a potholed narrow B road, I cannot think of any road where it would be quicker than a ZZR/K13 with a decent rider aboard.
This isn't a thread for the best 'all rounder'. The OP has a Speed Triple and a modified 190bhp MV Agusta F4 1078 and was considering a VFR1200F a short while ago. He's looking for a bike that will cover those 3 bikes' USPs to a degree, which means loads of power and torque, wind protection, touring and scratching ability. There are only really a hand full of bikes that can do all of those with some success without compromising too far other aspects and anything adventure tourer does not cover the power and sporty handling side of the equation. Only the KTM 1290 Adventure and Multistrada get close. In the same way, a Fireblade or R1 does not cover the comfort, tank range or easy hard luggage side of the equation.
A VFR800 might be a good option, but for the OP, it has sub 600cc super sports level of power and is still quite porky, so I wouldn't recommend that either in spite of the fabled V4 torque which in reality is one of the most over-used cliches going these days.
Chipchap - another bike coming to mind is the Kawasaki Z1000SX. Not mega power, but light enough to offset the deficit compared to other bikes mentioned.
PeteSo the great & the good of PHBB which one can offer the best compromise between :--
190 BHP Sleek Sports Bike
130 BHP Uphandlebar
125 BHP Tourer / Adventure Bike
Clearly a VFR1200X is not a compromise between these as it sits firmly in the 3rd category. It's not knocking the bike - it's where it sits. Honda's competition for the R1200GS and Triumph 1200 Adventure. A VFR1200F would be closer to the mark.
I'm not sure if you had a duff ZZR or an 06/07 one without the butterflies mod, but I'm not sure how you can think a bike weighing 275 kg with a 19 inch front tyre, no weight on the front wheel and a detuned version of the already weakest sports touring engine, is somehow more effective and better handling, point to point than a ZZR or K13 for the OP's criteria.?? In fact, having ridden a couple of Adventure bikes, unless it was a potholed narrow B road, I cannot think of any road where it would be quicker than a ZZR/K13 with a decent rider aboard.
This isn't a thread for the best 'all rounder'. The OP has a Speed Triple and a modified 190bhp MV Agusta F4 1078 and was considering a VFR1200F a short while ago. He's looking for a bike that will cover those 3 bikes' USPs to a degree, which means loads of power and torque, wind protection, touring and scratching ability. There are only really a hand full of bikes that can do all of those with some success without compromising too far other aspects and anything adventure tourer does not cover the power and sporty handling side of the equation. Only the KTM 1290 Adventure and Multistrada get close. In the same way, a Fireblade or R1 does not cover the comfort, tank range or easy hard luggage side of the equation.
A VFR800 might be a good option, but for the OP, it has sub 600cc super sports level of power and is still quite porky, so I wouldn't recommend that either in spite of the fabled V4 torque which in reality is one of the most over-used cliches going these days.
Chipchap - another bike coming to mind is the Kawasaki Z1000SX. Not mega power, but light enough to offset the deficit compared to other bikes mentioned.
You are correct in all of your assessments above. VFR800 looks good but 106 BHP is not liable to get my adrenal glands flowing.
It looks certain that I will be doing our Euro Trip on The Speed Triple suitably altered to suit and we will see how it gets on after 8 countries and 12 days/3200 miles.
After that I will go and actually ride a VFR1200 DCT. This may actually be a good all rounder for me. The ZZR is awesome but is even more fugly than a red VFR1200. The K1300S is equally awesome but its that damned DCT that keeps tugging at me with my gimpy leg.
A
Chipchap said:
Pete
You are correct in all of your assessments above. VFR800 looks good but 106 BHP is not liable to get my adrenal glands flowing.
It looks certain that I will be doing our Euro Trip on The Speed Triple suitably altered to suit and we will see how it gets on after 8 countries and 12 days/3200 miles.
After that I will go and actually ride a VFR1200 DCT. This may actually be a good all rounder for me. The ZZR is awesome but is even more fugly than a red VFR1200. The K1300S is equally awesome but its that damned DCT that keeps tugging at me with my gimpy leg.
A
The DCT box is what finally swung my decision over testing the GS and Explorer. Instant changes up or down in manual mode, shame it's not (yet) available on the ZZR1400! You have to test ride it for 150-200kms to gel with the new way of changing gear, seems strange to start with but once you 'get it' it's fantastic. The best mode is manual mode, even for filtering/traffic. Take a few Alpine roads with lots of hairpins and simply flick with your forefinger for instant changes up or down without unsettling the bike, even in turns. Great fun going past sports bikes struggling with low bars on the tight twisties helped by the seamless gear changes.You are correct in all of your assessments above. VFR800 looks good but 106 BHP is not liable to get my adrenal glands flowing.
It looks certain that I will be doing our Euro Trip on The Speed Triple suitably altered to suit and we will see how it gets on after 8 countries and 12 days/3200 miles.
After that I will go and actually ride a VFR1200 DCT. This may actually be a good all rounder for me. The ZZR is awesome but is even more fugly than a red VFR1200. The K1300S is equally awesome but its that damned DCT that keeps tugging at me with my gimpy leg.
A
Silver993tt said:
y ZZR was an 07 and I did the 2ndry fly mod. Was a fantastic bike in a straight line ( was dyno'd at 180bhp at the rear wheel) no doubt but the title of this thread is one bike to 'do-it-all' and from my experience an adventure style bike witha 4 cyl engine is much closer to this aim than a 'sports tourer' type bike such as the ZZR based on many years owning sports tourers and now an adventure.
By the way, the VFR1200F puts out 170bhp, same at the K1300S
http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/9/11126/Motorcycle-Article/2011-Road-Sport-Shootout-Conclusion.aspxBy the way, the VFR1200F puts out 170bhp, same at the K1300S
Edited by Silver993tt on Monday 21st April 20:24
Looking at this, the K1300S puts out more peak power, more power everywhere at all revs and lots more torque everywhere, peaking 1800rpm earlier. Even the shape of the power curves are similar, with if anything, the V4 VFR looking more like an IL4 with the rush at the top.
Agreed they are close, but the VFR is noticeable weaker everywhere which to an extent maybe expected with smaller engine, but the wet weight, even with its smaller tank is still up on both the ZZR and K13S. Perhaps it belies this weight better in the riding, but on paper it's starting with an uphill struggle.
Chipchap said:
Pete
You are correct in all of your assessments above. VFR800 looks good but 106 BHP is not liable to get my adrenal glands flowing.
It looks certain that I will be doing our Euro Trip on The Speed Triple suitably altered to suit and we will see how it gets on after 8 countries and 12 days/3200 miles.
After that I will go and actually ride a VFR1200 DCT. This may actually be a good all rounder for me. The ZZR is awesome but is even more fugly than a red VFR1200. The K1300S is equally awesome but its that damned DCT that keeps tugging at me with my gimpy leg.
A
Thinking about it more, Al, sacrifice the Speedy and bits, and just get the VFR12. Before the trip. You are correct in all of your assessments above. VFR800 looks good but 106 BHP is not liable to get my adrenal glands flowing.
It looks certain that I will be doing our Euro Trip on The Speed Triple suitably altered to suit and we will see how it gets on after 8 countries and 12 days/3200 miles.
After that I will go and actually ride a VFR1200 DCT. This may actually be a good all rounder for me. The ZZR is awesome but is even more fugly than a red VFR1200. The K1300S is equally awesome but its that damned DCT that keeps tugging at me with my gimpy leg.
A
You won't have a better choice of chariot than the big Viffer for the euroventure, and what better way to maximise your return than using it as intended. Comfort=Confidence+safety, and you sacrificed safety last year as you weren't fully comfortable on the MV over distance. I think you've been justifying the Speedy for a while, and chucking more at it now to make it fit and then selling the whole lot off after doesn't make a huge amount of sense.
3DP said:
http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/9/11126/Motorcycle-A...
Looking at this, the K1300S puts out more peak power, more power everywhere at all revs and lots more torque everywhere, peaking 1800rpm earlier. Even the shape of the power curves are similar, with if anything, the V4 VFR looking more like an IL4 with the rush at the top.
Agreed they are close, but the VFR is noticeable weaker everywhere which to an extent maybe expected with smaller engine, but the wet weight, even with its smaller tank is still up on both the ZZR and K13S. Perhaps it belies this weight better in the riding, but on paper it's starting with an uphill struggle.
and that's where the VFR1200X comes into play because it has the same V4 engine but tuned for low down torque which is what is needed for road riding.Looking at this, the K1300S puts out more peak power, more power everywhere at all revs and lots more torque everywhere, peaking 1800rpm earlier. Even the shape of the power curves are similar, with if anything, the V4 VFR looking more like an IL4 with the rush at the top.
Agreed they are close, but the VFR is noticeable weaker everywhere which to an extent maybe expected with smaller engine, but the wet weight, even with its smaller tank is still up on both the ZZR and K13S. Perhaps it belies this weight better in the riding, but on paper it's starting with an uphill struggle.
LordFlathead said:
I had one for a few weeks (ST1300) and loved it but found the clonky gearchange too, err clonky. Is yours clonky?
I would still consider one but not for another 20 years as I'm only 50
Yes it is a bit clonky, Honda don't seem to be able to do gearboxes quite like I remember Suzukis' in the 1980s I would still consider one but not for another 20 years as I'm only 50
I'm 50 myself but the ST13 suits my riding style; if I ever need to change due to old age I can fairly confidently say it'll be to something lighter but not necessarily faster
I've been really good by not buying any more bikes and I said that the ZZR will be my last. Clearly this was a rash statement
I've been looking at these Sinnis Apache 250 that Liam has been going on about and clearly for a cheap commuter they represent the bargain of a century at £2kish on the road. Well that would mean ignoring the 'have all the bikes I need' mantra, which would give me an excuse for a pure comfy tourer which the Mrs could sit on without moaning (there's a thing!).
Ian, could you do me a big favour next time you get an opportunity and measure the widest point? I looked online but was unable to work out if the rear is wider than the bars. I think it needs to be slimmer than 35" to get it down the side of the house. Then I would have the his and hers going away toolkit
I've been looking at these Sinnis Apache 250 that Liam has been going on about and clearly for a cheap commuter they represent the bargain of a century at £2kish on the road. Well that would mean ignoring the 'have all the bikes I need' mantra, which would give me an excuse for a pure comfy tourer which the Mrs could sit on without moaning (there's a thing!).
Ian, could you do me a big favour next time you get an opportunity and measure the widest point? I looked online but was unable to work out if the rear is wider than the bars. I think it needs to be slimmer than 35" to get it down the side of the house. Then I would have the his and hers going away toolkit
LordFlathead said:
Ian, could you do me a big favour next time you get an opportunity and measure the widest point? I looked online but was unable to work out if the rear is wider than the bars. I think it needs to be slimmer than 35" to get it down the side of the house. Then I would have the his and hers going away toolkit
I assume that was aimed at me? According to the owners' manual the ST13 is 860mm (33.9") wide... that's across the mirrors which is useful when filtering: if they'll go through, the panniers will Why has no one mentioned a Tiger Sport 1050?
It may well be my next bike after my GSXR1000 as I'm thanking that 180mph is pointless anf the bike is too hard for most roads, I do love it though and its going to be painful if I sell it. I will miss easy 80mph wheelies and endless power but a comfy seat and fairly upright riding position may be better overall. I think an 800 Tiger would be underpowered.
It may well be my next bike after my GSXR1000 as I'm thanking that 180mph is pointless anf the bike is too hard for most roads, I do love it though and its going to be painful if I sell it. I will miss easy 80mph wheelies and endless power but a comfy seat and fairly upright riding position may be better overall. I think an 800 Tiger would be underpowered.
I've been changing between 1200GS, and K12S/13S too many times over the last 5 years...
I Love both of them as an all rounder... But after a while on a GS I wish I had some of that top end speed, and then after having a K for a while, I want something that is chuckable round the bends....
The K is a heavy beast and although it will hustle, its not great.... Yep stick it on an open A road and you can blast along at long term prison sentence speeds with confidence... Throw it a twisty B road, and its a bit of hard work managing the weight.
The GS is just a feckin laugh on the B roads, and as thats what I do with the majority of my riding then I've made that choice again. The argument that its a waste of time having a bike that can play on Autobahns, when I only go there once a year has won over again. (until I go on another Euro trip)
The new GS is a definite move on in term of power... and the new ESA is proper good.. Last thing I rode with suspenders that felt this good was my RC8.. But this has the ability to flick into soft mode, and give a floaty smooth ride when you're chilling out....
If you can get over the feckin awful looks, and the fact you are going to lose when you're mates start measuring their power and top speed in terms of c0ck length, then you'll love it... There's a very good reason why theyve sold so many
I Love both of them as an all rounder... But after a while on a GS I wish I had some of that top end speed, and then after having a K for a while, I want something that is chuckable round the bends....
The K is a heavy beast and although it will hustle, its not great.... Yep stick it on an open A road and you can blast along at long term prison sentence speeds with confidence... Throw it a twisty B road, and its a bit of hard work managing the weight.
The GS is just a feckin laugh on the B roads, and as thats what I do with the majority of my riding then I've made that choice again. The argument that its a waste of time having a bike that can play on Autobahns, when I only go there once a year has won over again. (until I go on another Euro trip)
The new GS is a definite move on in term of power... and the new ESA is proper good.. Last thing I rode with suspenders that felt this good was my RC8.. But this has the ability to flick into soft mode, and give a floaty smooth ride when you're chilling out....
If you can get over the feckin awful looks, and the fact you are going to lose when you're mates start measuring their power and top speed in terms of c0ck length, then you'll love it... There's a very good reason why theyve sold so many
podman said:
MC Bodge said:
Wedg1e said:
how many owners of Hyabusas do 200mph everywhere?
All of them?JacquesMesrine said:
KTM 1290 Superduke?. Its possibly a Multistrada without the old man front end.
I can vote for this. 3000 miles on mine now in six weeks, Average of 56mph and 48.3mpg. Even tyre wear is looking quite good for the torque. And with the electrics off it is unhinged. Handling is fantastic, comfort enough to do 120 miles between numb bum stops and wheelies on the throttle in third gear like an openclass motocrosser.
Wedg1e said:
I assume that was aimed at me? According to the owners' manual the ST13 is 860mm (33.9") wide... that's across the mirrors which is useful when filtering: if they'll go through, the panniers will
It was, thanks for the info and I should have quoted everything. That's great then I've measured it and will fit - just. I need to seriously consider another partner friendly option as she makes more noise than the zorst when I open the taps on the big Zed and I'm worried about "disturbing the peace" both legally and maritally 
LordFlathead said:
Wedg1e said:
I assume that was aimed at me? According to the owners' manual the ST13 is 860mm (33.9") wide... that's across the mirrors which is useful when filtering: if they'll go through, the panniers will
It was, thanks for the info and I should have quoted everything. That's great then I've measured it and will fit - just. I need to seriously consider another partner friendly option as she makes more noise than the zorst when I open the taps on the big Zed and I'm worried about "disturbing the peace" both legally and maritally As for the OP's question, a GSX14 with Akra, PC3 & Givi. 122.7bhp, 98lb/ft, all day comfy, 180-190miles range ridden sensibly & does everything well enough for me.
LordFlathead said:
Wedg1e said:
I assume that was aimed at me? According to the owners' manual the ST13 is 860mm (33.9") wide... that's across the mirrors which is useful when filtering: if they'll go through, the panniers will
It was, thanks for the info and I should have quoted everything. That's great then I've measured it and will fit - just. I need to seriously consider another partner friendly option as she makes more noise than the zorst when I open the taps on the big Zed and I'm worried about "disturbing the peace" both legally and maritally My OH (Nursy) loves the spacious pillion seat of the ST; with the topbox on it's like being in an armchair. There you go: sold
MC Bodge said:
Laps of the M25 and sleeping in a service station Travelodge?
No Mainly Suffolk B Roads commute of 40 miles, followed by 10 miles of A12 to the office. I did find the suspension a bit stiff on the factory settings but wound back two clicks on all of it and actually think it is the most "do it all" bike that is genuinely good at everything, except dirt work etc obviously but I have no call for that!
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