M-Sport has devalued the M brand...

[Leins]

pattyg said:

What I don't understand is people thinking the M sport version is the better, faster car.

But surely "M-Sport" has to be better than just "M"???? (Turn that volume up to 11 )

[Jon1967x]

Leins said:

pattyg said:

What I don't understand is people thinking the M sport version is the better, faster car.

But surely "M-Sport" has to be better than just "M"???? (Turn that volume up to 11 )

Trim, interior seating, firmer lower suspension and usually bigger/wider wheels. Some will claim the different suspension/tyres will enable it to corner better which would make it faster along a road with bends. In a straight line, you're right, no difference.

[Yadizzle1]

"Sport" versions of cars have been around for such a long time and I think anyone buying an M car knows that their car has more performance than an M-Sport car so I really don't see the big problem.

You're basically saying that normal folks who can't afford to buy or run an M Car aren't allowed to have a good looking car? (good looking in my opinion)

Anyone that really cares will be able to tell difference between an M-Sport and a REAL M Car, obviously most M-Sports make a diesel clatter, a Real M car won't. Real M Car will have a more extensive body kit and diffuser and wheels, M-Sport won't. Real M Car will have a noticeably different interior and SMG (in most cases) and obviously the M-Sport won't.




VS

[+49]

pattyg said:

I can't see the problem apart from the X5M/X6M. On the whole though M badged cars are M engineered cars and M Sport cars are trim level only cars just like Audi S cars are S engineered and S Line cars are trim only.

What I don't understand is people thinking the M sport version is the better, faster car.

Well define faster? I guess you could say Stiffer/lower suspension and bigger fatter tyres would make a 320d Sport/M pack faster than a 320d SE round a track?

Plus think of all the aero your getting from the M pack!!! Your missing vital things here mate

But on a serious not I'm too a little upset with this x5m thing...Don't get me wrong I owned a 4.6IS for a while but I would ever wanted it to be a x5m.

Theres been the old e30 325i Motorsports and 328I OR 328IS.328I Sport (on logbook) But I accept them as nice little add on's the popular already fairly sporty in models

Edited by +49 on Wednesday 23 April 14:04

[E65Ross]

to those saying current m cars look just like standard cars, maybe you should take a look back to the e34 and e36 era

[jumpingjackdan]

Its a marketing practice to sell more cars. No different to any manufacturer adding "Sport" to other non-sport models. It shifts motors. I don't really mind. Its only car geeks like me that can spot the true wolf in sheeps clothing.

[gizlaroc]

The only thing that has changed is the fact they are more popular and so, so, so much cheaper than they were 30 years ago, so you see far more of them about.

That is the only brand dilution imho.

[Leins]

Jon1967x said:

Leins said:

pattyg said:

What I don't understand is people thinking the M sport version is the better, faster car.

But surely "M-Sport" has to be better than just "M"???? (Turn that volume up to 11 )

Trim, interior seating, firmer lower suspension and usually bigger/wider wheels. Some will claim the different suspension/tyres will enable it to corner better which would make it faster along a road with bends. In a straight line, you're right, no difference.

I agree if you're talking about M-Sport vs SE. That wasn't really my point though, which was only masquerading as a question

[pattyg]

Jon1967x said:

Trim, interior seating, firmer lower suspension and usually bigger/wider wheels. Some will claim the different suspension/tyres will enable it to corner better which would make it faster along a road with bends. In a straight line, you're right, no difference.

All that added plastic will make it slower IMHO

[Fox-]

BMW were sticking M badges on non M cars decades ago. 1999 528i Sport? 1999 318Ti Sport? 1989 325i Sport?

1987 M535i...?

Other than the M1 the first M badged road car was a regular 535i with a Sport pack, basically - same engine as the conventional 535i. But this always seems to escape the memory of the 'wwaaaaa, M is ruined' brigade.

[E65Ross]

Fox- said:

BMW were sticking M badges on non M cars decades ago. 1999 528i Sport? 1999 318Ti Sport? 1989 325i Sport?

1987 M535i...?

Other than the M1 the first M badged road car was a regular 535i with a Sport pack, basically - same engine as the conventional 535i. But this always seems to escape the memory of the 'wwaaaaa, M is ruined' brigade.

[Fox-]

Besides, its better now than it was - on the E39 the M5 and the Sport had exactly the same bodykit. The only differences were wheels, exhaust, mirrors and the lack of a T-bar in the front lower grille. It was otherwise identical. And this was 10-15 years ago!

At least now the F10 M5 has a different bumper to the M Sport 5 Series.

[E65Ross]

Fox- said:

Besides, its better now than it was - on the E39 the M5 and the Sport had exactly the same bodykit. The only differences were wheels, exhaust, mirrors and the lack of a T-bar in the front lower grille. It was otherwise identical. And this was 10-15 years ago!

At least now the F10 M5 has a different bumper to the M Sport 5 Series.

Go back even further to the E34 M5 and the differences were even more similar. They only had 2 pipes in those days. A debadged E34 M5 is very similar in appearance to an E34 525i sport, for example.

[Welshbeef]

E65Ross said:

Go back even further to the E34 M5 and the differences were even more similar. They only had 2 pipes in those days. A debadged E34 M5 is very similar in appearance to an E34 525i sport, for example.

But that's the beauty of the M5 it was always designed to be discreet

[E65Ross]

Welshbeef said:

E65Ross said:

Go back even further to the E34 M5 and the differences were even more similar. They only had 2 pipes in those days. A debadged E34 M5 is very similar in appearance to an E34 525i sport, for example.

But that's the beauty of the M5 it was always designed to be discreet

Totally agree. My point was more against the poster above saying it's a bad thing a current M car looks very similar to a non-M car as if that's something new, when it most certainly is not.

[roofer]

Fox- said:

1987 M535i...?

At least it had an LSD and a dogleg (from 85 on) A bit more than a badge and stiff suspension.

An 'M' starts and finishes at its powerplant/drivetrain and the harmony of those components.

A badge is just a distraction. Proper people know a proper car. Others just want to tell their mates about a badge.

[Stick Legs]

The point I was making was firstly that the M logo has become just a trim level. Think '80s Vauxhall, the mechanical difference between a CD and an SRi was gas shocks and spring rate, the rest was cosmetic.

Audi had the right idea with S-Line. BMW should have used some other device than M to mark out a trim level from true M cars. IMHO.

The other point was that on many models the SE is actually a nicer looking car, F10 M-Sport kit does it no favours I feel. IMHO.

[Fox-]

roofer said:

At least it had an LSD

But so did a 1995 328i Sport - and that wasn't an M3 either. The reason the Sport cars lost the LSD's was because BMW felt that ASC was a suitable replacement.

[gizlaroc]

Stick Legs said:

Audi had the right idea with S-Line. BMW should have used some other device than M to mark out a trim level from true M cars. IMHO.

S-Line Vs S Cars

M-Sport Vs M Cars

Can't see any difference myself, and all you ever hear on the S forums is how annoying it is the S-Line cars look as good, if not better than the proper S Cars. Which where always meant to be sleepers anyway.

Stick Legs said:

The other point was that on many models the SE is actually a nicer looking car, F10 M-Sport kit does it no favours I feel. IMHO.

Totally disagree with that, the F10 looks so much nicer in M-Sport trim.
I had an SE and it always looked like a nothing car.

[Fox-]

gizlaroc said:

S-Line Vs S Cars

M-Sport Vs M Cars

Except not really, as 'S' isn't anything special - it is of course RS thats the M car equivilent.

A 2009 Audi S4 for example is really just a 335i M Sport rival with a posher name.