RE: BMW 435i M Sport farewell: PH Fleet
Discussion
g3org3y said:
Phateuk said:
article said:
30ish commuting mpg (admittedly mostly with the roof bars in place) wasn't anything to write home about in this day and age either
Is it just me that thinks that's quite impressive given the performance available? 
Tbh, I suspect the 435d will be the pick of the bunch. BMW quote the 435i 0-60 at 5.4 (5.1 if auto), the 435d (X drive) does it in 4.7 seconds! That's faster than both the E36 and E46 M3 and on par with the E92. Staggering performance!
Limpet said:
As someone who does 20k a year in a bog-standard 320d F30, I can categorically state that, at least without expensive options fitted to it, the F30 isn't anything like the "driving machine" that the E90 was (comparing with similar bog-standard models from that range). It's just like any other modern car. Competent, but completely lacking feel and driver involvement. On non-adaptive suspension, it is quite significantly under-damped as well.
These are details that BMW always used to get right, even on entry level models. I could thoroughly enjoy myself in an E90 318d because the fundamentals were so right. It coped with undulations and camber changes with no fuss at all, and the turn in was always sharp and instantaneous. The F30 is lazier in its responses, softer, more "ordinary" feeling.
Maybe as an M-Sport with the options list lobbed at it the F30 is a different proposition, but why should you need to do this to get the kind of engaging handling that always came as standard on even the poverty models?
Precisely. I own a 2003 (facelift) E46 320i (Sport, manual, saloon) at the moment and whilst to most people it's just an old BMW, the most appealing replacement from my point of view as a car enthusiast is another E46 - A facelift 330Ci Coupé (again: Sport, manual). - M cars would be too costly as dailies as I also plan on adding a TVR to the "fleet" and the newer models have lost their appeal, which is a massive shame.These are details that BMW always used to get right, even on entry level models. I could thoroughly enjoy myself in an E90 318d because the fundamentals were so right. It coped with undulations and camber changes with no fuss at all, and the turn in was always sharp and instantaneous. The F30 is lazier in its responses, softer, more "ordinary" feeling.
Maybe as an M-Sport with the options list lobbed at it the F30 is a different proposition, but why should you need to do this to get the kind of engaging handling that always came as standard on even the poverty models?
Hopefully though, I'll find myself agreeing with Evo rather than PH when I do drive a 435i...but I really shouldn't have cause to worry.
E65Ross said:
Mermaid said:
E65Ross said:
£50k for a car which can very nearly almost match Audi R8 V8 or 997 Porsche 911 Carrera performance with a half-decent boot and proper back seats? Sounds like a bargain to me.
So have you bought one finally? 
No, because I can't afford one whilst saving for a house. It's on my next car list though
leedsutd1 said:
interesting the debate on how much the BMW will lose in a year,all cars lose money in the first year ,obviously the odd supercar car may not, but in general a car loses between 40-60% of its value after
3 years, fair enough if on lease but I prefer to buy a 4/5 year old car that already dropped 20k.
ARRRRRRRRRRRRRGH, drives me nuts. Say it in your head. Loose, lose. Why do people make this mistake?3 years, fair enough if on lease but I prefer to buy a 4/5 year old car that already dropped 20k.
Silverbullet767 said:
leedsutd1 said:
interesting the debate on how much the BMW will lose in a year,all cars lose money in the first year ,obviously the odd supercar car may not, but in general a car loses between 40-60% of its value after
3 years, fair enough if on lease but I prefer to buy a 4/5 year old car that already dropped 20k.
ARRRRRRRRRRRRRGH, drives me nuts. Say it in your head. Loose, lose. Why do people make this mistake?3 years, fair enough if on lease but I prefer to buy a 4/5 year old car that already dropped 20k.
Mermaid said:
E65Ross said:
Mermaid said:
E65Ross said:
£50k for a car which can very nearly almost match Audi R8 V8 or 997 Porsche 911 Carrera performance with a half-decent boot and proper back seats? Sounds like a bargain to me.
So have you bought one finally? No, because I can't afford one whilst saving for a house. It's on my next car list though
Silverbullet767 said:
leedsutd1 said:
interesting the debate on how much the BMW will lose in a year,all cars lose money in the first year ,obviously the odd supercar car may not, but in general a car loses between 40-60% of its value after
3 years, fair enough if on lease but I prefer to buy a 4/5 year old car that already dropped 20k.
ARRRRRRRRRRRRRGH, drives me nuts. Say it in your head. Loose, lose. Why do people make this mistake?3 years, fair enough if on lease but I prefer to buy a 4/5 year old car that already dropped 20k.
Matthew Clarke said:
Schermerhorn said:
If I had that sort of cash or monthly financial capital I'd opt for an M5. At least people KNOW it's a tiger.
Apart from the fact that it would cost you 4 times as much to run it than the 435i....Fuel costs would be higher, but the F10 M5 does 20mpg regularly. The old 5.0 V10 on the other hand......*ouch*
At that sort of money you would be buying an AUC car, not a private sale. So you'd get it prepped up to AUC standards and not worry about incurring big costs immediately. When I got my E63 M6, it was 10,000 miles away from a service, had new discs and pads and 3 brand new tyres. In total, that was around £4,000 saved. Then I got the 2 year warranty thrown in at no extra cost. Win-win.
I appreciate what you are saying but you don't need mega mega deep pockets to run these cars, if you get an AUC example with a warranty anyway.
E65Ross said:
Can't see the demand being any higher following its release. people have known for ages the next one would be turbo charged, and lighter.....and probably a better steer but with a less exciting (but more potent) engine.
More torque certainly. 
I very much hope it is a game changer, and with a bit of fettling, keep the 991 GT3 honest.
I wonder how much disappointment is down to the car not delivering the level of performance that it looks as if it should be capable of. Much as the article suggests, one expects a 'junior M4' - but much of that is the Sport pack giving it the M look. I wonder, had the PH Fleet Car had been in Modern Line trim, if the expectations placed on it would be quite the same.
The fact of the matter is, it would not make commercial sense for BMW to release a car that would render the M4 redundant to many potential buyers. Consider the E36 328i - in SE or even Sport trim it is a capable and comfortable car with a good turn of speed that still feels a little lazy. However, ditch the restrictive inlet manifold and get a decent remap and you have a car with performance closer to the M version. So I would imagine that the 435i is also quite heavily detuned from its true potential and no doubt the ride and handling can be sharpened up quite a bit too, but nobody is likely to want to do this until later in the car's life.
The fact of the matter is, it would not make commercial sense for BMW to release a car that would render the M4 redundant to many potential buyers. Consider the E36 328i - in SE or even Sport trim it is a capable and comfortable car with a good turn of speed that still feels a little lazy. However, ditch the restrictive inlet manifold and get a decent remap and you have a car with performance closer to the M version. So I would imagine that the 435i is also quite heavily detuned from its true potential and no doubt the ride and handling can be sharpened up quite a bit too, but nobody is likely to want to do this until later in the car's life.
g3org3y said:
Phateuk said:
article said:
30ish commuting mpg (admittedly mostly with the roof bars in place) wasn't anything to write home about in this day and age either
Is it just me that thinks that's quite impressive given the performance available? Tbh, I suspect the 435d will be the pick of the bunch. BMW quote the 435i 0-60 at 5.4 (5.1 if auto), the 435d (X drive) does it in 4.7 seconds! That's faster than both the E36 and E46 M3 and on par with the E92. Staggering performance!
My previous 3.0 petrol (z4c) achieved 24mpg avg on my same commute - good progress given the extra weight and ~60bhp
E65Ross said:
primarily because of traction, past 40mph or so the e92 would easily pull away. the 435d takes Approx 17secs to get from 100-200kmh, yet the e92 m3 takes just 11, thats a monumental difference.
Let's not forget how under-rated those accelerative numbers were for the M cars of old... Schermerhorn said:
No way.
Fuel costs would be higher, but the F10 M5 does 20mpg regularly. The old 5.0 V10 on the other hand......*ouch*
At that sort of money you would be buying an AUC car, not a private sale. So you'd get it prepped up to AUC standards and not worry about incurring big costs immediately. When I got my E63 M6, it was 10,000 miles away from a service, had new discs and pads and 3 brand new tyres. In total, that was around £4,000 saved. Then I got the 2 year warranty thrown in at no extra cost. Win-win.
I appreciate what you are saying but you don't need mega mega deep pockets to run these cars, if you get an AUC example with a warranty anyway.
Eh, personally haven't really gotten below 12 mpg in my E60 M5 driving hard. Average about 17-18 mpg combined (spirited highway accelerations, around town driving). Mind you, I can't complain about running costs as it's not my daily! F10 much better in that respect.Fuel costs would be higher, but the F10 M5 does 20mpg regularly. The old 5.0 V10 on the other hand......*ouch*
At that sort of money you would be buying an AUC car, not a private sale. So you'd get it prepped up to AUC standards and not worry about incurring big costs immediately. When I got my E63 M6, it was 10,000 miles away from a service, had new discs and pads and 3 brand new tyres. In total, that was around £4,000 saved. Then I got the 2 year warranty thrown in at no extra cost. Win-win.
I appreciate what you are saying but you don't need mega mega deep pockets to run these cars, if you get an AUC example with a warranty anyway.
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