**** GT3 Worldwide Action Group Letter to PAG & Dealers ***
Discussion
AndyBrew said:
"thank you for your letter, it has been forwarded onto our Director of Misdirection and Delaying Tactics and a response will be issued within the next three weeks, again we would like to thank you for your patience on this matter".
You left out the word "loyalty", Andy. Haha..rosino said:
Have you thought about sending this to Autocar (UK), Car Magazine (UK), Auto Motor und Sport (DE), Moniteur Automobile (BE & FR), Car & Driver (USA & Canada), Jalopnik (international) ? The latter seem to be one of the really independent ones too.. were they not the only ones publishing CH rant about Ferrari a while back ?
Or even a post on You Tube - that seems to get results!DT398 said:
I'm sure Porsche's management and lawyers will be completely unfazed by that letter. What do you mean about "discrimination within the single european market"? Are you saying that Porsche can't offer different packages/products/prices (including compo) to different European countries?
Has anyone who has asked for a full refund been denied that option? The main (and fatal) weakness I can see in the letter is that everyone really, really wants to keep their cars because they are amazing but want some kind of compo for not being able to use it (and have loan cars while Porsche makes reasonable attempts to remedy the problem) So there are "more than a hundred" people who are not happy with the GT3 situation, seemingly none of whom actually want to give the car back despite Porsche's poor communication and self inflicted "brand damage". How many of those "more than a hundred" will hand the cars back and never buy from Porsche again (when the next best thing comes out)? Twenty? Fifty? Not many, I suspect. Did you poll the Group and ask how many would hand their cars back if a full refund is offered?
Unfortunately, there is a queue of people waiting to snap up any returned cars and the overall impact on Porsche's business (let alone VAG) is negligible.
I can imagine the extreme frustration of people who have paid up not being able to drive their cars and hopefully it will be fixed soon. Hopefully that frustration won't be compounded by not getting the response you expected from the letter.
Interesting post - it seems that you either give them a workable deadline and if that is missed you must as a group ask for your money back and get on with life.Has anyone who has asked for a full refund been denied that option? The main (and fatal) weakness I can see in the letter is that everyone really, really wants to keep their cars because they are amazing but want some kind of compo for not being able to use it (and have loan cars while Porsche makes reasonable attempts to remedy the problem) So there are "more than a hundred" people who are not happy with the GT3 situation, seemingly none of whom actually want to give the car back despite Porsche's poor communication and self inflicted "brand damage". How many of those "more than a hundred" will hand the cars back and never buy from Porsche again (when the next best thing comes out)? Twenty? Fifty? Not many, I suspect. Did you poll the Group and ask how many would hand their cars back if a full refund is offered?
Unfortunately, there is a queue of people waiting to snap up any returned cars and the overall impact on Porsche's business (let alone VAG) is negligible.
I can imagine the extreme frustration of people who have paid up not being able to drive their cars and hopefully it will be fixed soon. Hopefully that frustration won't be compounded by not getting the response you expected from the letter.
If you're not prepared to be strong then you are clearly the weaker of the two parties and they'll be aware of that and will do nothing more than they are obliged to do.
I seem to remember I quoted the phrase 'consequential loss' some weeks ago with regard to Porsche's obligation to buyers and I stand by that - they owe you nothing and they are aware of that.
mrdemon said:
if you want to protest the car and the way you are being looked after, get your money back and walk away.
Asking for a full refund has always been the only way to show a protest.
I would agree with that statement, the 991 GT3 is a great car but tainted now, and also the reputation of Porsche in dealing with this delicate situation.Asking for a full refund has always been the only way to show a protest.
What happens when you receive the car and the engine still goes bang by chance, I can't see you getting your money back as Porsche have proven in the past to pull every trick to blame the owner, over rev etc etc
No prejudice to porsche or owners I had a 997 gt3, and would have brought a 991 gt3 but this issue came to light just in time.
mrdemon said:
the letter just seems a rant asking for money to me !
if you want to protest the car and the way you are being looked after, get your money back and walk away.
Asking for a full refund has always been the only way to show a protest.
if you want to protest the car and the way you are being looked after, get your money back and walk away.
Asking for a full refund has always been the only way to show a protest.
how about if we want to keep our cars, but just want our out of pocket expenses.....eh ?
these arm chair fans....lol...
APOLO1 said:
mrdemon said:
the letter just seems a rant asking for money to me !
if you want to protest the car and the way you are being looked after, get your money back and walk away.
Asking for a full refund has always been the only way to show a protest.
if you want to protest the car and the way you are being looked after, get your money back and walk away.
Asking for a full refund has always been the only way to show a protest.
how about if we want to keep our cars, but just want our out of pocket expenses.....eh ?
these arm chair fans....lol...
If you are just after some cash because you feel you've been hard done by - that's different.
HoHoHo said:
APOLO1 said:
mrdemon said:
the letter just seems a rant asking for money to me !
if you want to protest the car and the way you are being looked after, get your money back and walk away.
Asking for a full refund has always been the only way to show a protest.
if you want to protest the car and the way you are being looked after, get your money back and walk away.
Asking for a full refund has always been the only way to show a protest.
how about if we want to keep our cars, but just want our out of pocket expenses.....eh ?
these arm chair fans....lol...
If you are just after some cash because you feel you've been hard done by - that's different.
APOLO1 said:
HoHoHo said:
APOLO1 said:
mrdemon said:
the letter just seems a rant asking for money to me !
if you want to protest the car and the way you are being looked after, get your money back and walk away.
Asking for a full refund has always been the only way to show a protest.
if you want to protest the car and the way you are being looked after, get your money back and walk away.
Asking for a full refund has always been the only way to show a protest.
how about if we want to keep our cars, but just want our out of pocket expenses.....eh ?
these arm chair fans....lol...
If you are just after some cash because you feel you've been hard done by - that's different.
If you've got a finance agreement and are paying for something you can't have or have pre-booked track days et al then of course as I have suggested you should (and will I'm sure) be compensated accordingly.
But to ask for 50 or 100 Euros compensation a day because you haven't got your car isn't going to happen (that applies to those in columns 2 & 3)
HoHoHo said:
APOLO1 said:
HoHoHo said:
APOLO1 said:
mrdemon said:
the letter just seems a rant asking for money to me !
if you want to protest the car and the way you are being looked after, get your money back and walk away.
Asking for a full refund has always been the only way to show a protest.
if you want to protest the car and the way you are being looked after, get your money back and walk away.
Asking for a full refund has always been the only way to show a protest.
how about if we want to keep our cars, but just want our out of pocket expenses.....eh ?
these arm chair fans....lol...
If you are just after some cash because you feel you've been hard done by - that's different.
If you've got a finance agreement and are paying for something you can't have or have pre-booked track days et al then of course as I have suggested you should (and will I'm sure) be compensated accordingly.
But to ask for 50 or 100 Euros compensation a day because you haven't got your car isn't going to happen (that applies to those in columns 2 & 3)
fully agree with you HO.....in fact they should feel lucky that they can even have a car at some point.....
some people are putting miles on very nice 991 turbo's and 991 50th ltd ed cars
how are they out of pocket, unless booked on track days.
they have very nice cars to use, in some cases a more expensive car, and then they are getting 12 months warranty put on their cars when they arrive.
seems a win win for those with higher priced loan cars. FREE MOTORING !!!
Accept it, or ask for a refund.
If I were Porsche and got a letter asking for money for every day they did not have a GT3, I would refund that person in full, ask for the loan car back 9am prompt tomorrow.
I would not even let them have the car.
how are they out of pocket, unless booked on track days.
they have very nice cars to use, in some cases a more expensive car, and then they are getting 12 months warranty put on their cars when they arrive.
seems a win win for those with higher priced loan cars. FREE MOTORING !!!
Accept it, or ask for a refund.
If I were Porsche and got a letter asking for money for every day they did not have a GT3, I would refund that person in full, ask for the loan car back 9am prompt tomorrow.
I would not even let them have the car.
Just because some people are not owners does not mean they are not allowed to have an opinion or voice it - this is a public forum....Porsche have not banned you from driving the car so go back to your OPC get the keys and drive it til you get your actual time slot for the new engine. As someone else put it Porsche' biggest worry is if more and more photos and stories on the web circulate of other cars catching fire or failing causing them more embarrasment.
I have to agree with Demon on this - the letter is look we love you and the car give us some cash and we'll sit tight.If you want to make a stand say right the cars are all sitting at the dealers useless to us we have lost faith in you give us our money back..but you wont...why? because you know there are still people who want them dealers and individuals falling over themselves to get their hands on one. Am I totally in agreement with the way Porsche AG and there dealers have handled it?..no but they have supplied loan cars to people through the network so what expenses you on about?.depreciation?? haha the only cars you ever see for sale are trading at a premium.
Its a mess but sadly its a recall - I hope you all get what it is you are after but I think its likely to be another years warranty.
I have to agree with Demon on this - the letter is look we love you and the car give us some cash and we'll sit tight.If you want to make a stand say right the cars are all sitting at the dealers useless to us we have lost faith in you give us our money back..but you wont...why? because you know there are still people who want them dealers and individuals falling over themselves to get their hands on one. Am I totally in agreement with the way Porsche AG and there dealers have handled it?..no but they have supplied loan cars to people through the network so what expenses you on about?.depreciation?? haha the only cars you ever see for sale are trading at a premium.
Its a mess but sadly its a recall - I hope you all get what it is you are after but I think its likely to be another years warranty.
APOLO1 said:
fully agree with you HO.....in fact they should feel lucky that they can even have a car at some point.....
I do hope you get it sorted satisfactorily and watching from the outside I'm really disappointed in the fashion that Porsche have conducted themselves, it's nothing more than a complete shambles.
berty37 said:
Just because some people are not owners does not mean they are not allowed to have an opinion or voice it - this is a public forum....Porsche have not banned you from driving the car so go back to your OPC get the keys and drive it til you get your actual time slot for the new engine. As someone else put it Porsche' biggest worry is if more and more photos and stories on the web circulate of other cars catching fire or failing causing them more embarrasment.
I have to agree with Demon on this - the letter is look we love you and the car give us some cash and we'll sit tight.If you want to make a stand say right the cars are all sitting at the dealers useless to us we have lost faith in you give us our money back..but you wont...why? because you know there are still people who want them dealers and individuals falling over themselves to get their hands on one. Am I totally in agreement with the way Porsche AG and there dealers have handled it?..no but they have supplied loan cars to people through the network so what expenses you on about?.depreciation?? haha the only cars you ever see for sale are trading at a premium.
Its a mess but sadly its a recall - I hope you all get what it is you are after but I think its likely to be another years warranty.
100% Spot OnI have to agree with Demon on this - the letter is look we love you and the car give us some cash and we'll sit tight.If you want to make a stand say right the cars are all sitting at the dealers useless to us we have lost faith in you give us our money back..but you wont...why? because you know there are still people who want them dealers and individuals falling over themselves to get their hands on one. Am I totally in agreement with the way Porsche AG and there dealers have handled it?..no but they have supplied loan cars to people through the network so what expenses you on about?.depreciation?? haha the only cars you ever see for sale are trading at a premium.
Its a mess but sadly its a recall - I hope you all get what it is you are after but I think its likely to be another years warranty.
mrdemon said:
some people are putting miles on very nice 991 turbo's and 991 50th ltd ed cars
how are they out of pocket, unless booked on track days.
they have very nice cars to use, in some cases a more expensive car, and then they are getting 12 months warranty put on their cars when they arrive.
seems a win win for those with higher priced loan cars. FREE MOTORING !!!
Accept it, or ask for a refund.
If I were Porsche and got a letter asking for money for every day they did not have a GT3, I would refund that person in full, ask for the loan car back 9am prompt tomorrow.
I would not even let them have the car.
ah.....you don't have a GT3, explains a lothow are they out of pocket, unless booked on track days.
they have very nice cars to use, in some cases a more expensive car, and then they are getting 12 months warranty put on their cars when they arrive.
seems a win win for those with higher priced loan cars. FREE MOTORING !!!
Accept it, or ask for a refund.
If I were Porsche and got a letter asking for money for every day they did not have a GT3, I would refund that person in full, ask for the loan car back 9am prompt tomorrow.
I would not even let them have the car.
APOLO1 said:
ah.....you don't have a GT3, explains a lot
Apolo1 given the rave reviews you have given the 991 gt3 and Porsche over McLaren im surprised you're taking this stance.They offer you a temporary car, an additional years warranty and a new engine im not sure they need do anymore than that. Question is did Ferrari compensate owners financially?
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