**** GT3 Worldwide Action Group Letter to PAG & Dealers ***
Discussion
chelme said:
Sidick, I am speaking of the principle, not the factual matrix of what has been manipulated when. If manufacturers feel they can get away with it, they will. It doesn't matter what it is that they do. You seem the suggest that only Ferrari bends the rules...not true at all and misleading the consumer on an important matter of emissions or mpg figures is arguably more pertinent overall (because it affects a greater number of people) than whether a 599 has done a track time in 1.19mins, instead of 1.20mins...
I've said no such thing. The issue with Ferrari was that it was anything but a level playing field, as other manufacturers were not doing the same thing. Unless you can prove otherwise.....
From CarBuzz:
PORSCHE GT3 BUYERS UNHAPPY WITH RECALL COMPENSATION
Would an extra year’s warranty on a burning car please you?
While Porsche seems to be working hard to fix the engine-fire problem in its 2014 911 GT3, it has also been forced recall all delivered units and halt deliveries of pre-ordered models. And with wealthy buyers clamoring to get their $130,000-plus cars, and quick, the company is doing everything it can to deal with the issue. According to a letter sent by the company to GT3 owners and posted on Rennlist Forums, Porsche is offering owners $2,000 per month for delayed deliveries.
PORSCHE GT3 BUYERS UNHAPPY WITH RECALL COMPENSATION
Would an extra year’s warranty on a burning car please you?
While Porsche seems to be working hard to fix the engine-fire problem in its 2014 911 GT3, it has also been forced recall all delivered units and halt deliveries of pre-ordered models. And with wealthy buyers clamoring to get their $130,000-plus cars, and quick, the company is doing everything it can to deal with the issue. According to a letter sent by the company to GT3 owners and posted on Rennlist Forums, Porsche is offering owners $2,000 per month for delayed deliveries.
sidicks said:
chelme said:
....and really if we are to focus on optimization, we should all know that EVERY manufacturer does this...
Please share what evidence you have to support this claim....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cI_r61ClBz4
50 seconds onwards. Seems like optimisation to me.
sidicks said:
chelme said:
Sidick, I am speaking of the principle, not the factual matrix of what has been manipulated when. If manufacturers feel they can get away with it, they will. It doesn't matter what it is that they do. You seem the suggest that only Ferrari bends the rules...not true at all and misleading the consumer on an important matter of emissions or mpg figures is arguably more pertinent overall (because it affects a greater number of people) than whether a 599 has done a track time in 1.19mins, instead of 1.20mins...
I've said no such thing. The issue with Ferrari was that it was anything but a level playing field, as other manufacturers were not doing the same thing. Unless you can prove otherwise.....
chelme said:
sidicks said:
chelme said:
Sidick, I am speaking of the principle, not the factual matrix of what has been manipulated when. If manufacturers feel they can get away with it, they will. It doesn't matter what it is that they do. You seem the suggest that only Ferrari bends the rules...not true at all and misleading the consumer on an important matter of emissions or mpg figures is arguably more pertinent overall (because it affects a greater number of people) than whether a 599 has done a track time in 1.19mins, instead of 1.20mins...
I've said no such thing. The issue with Ferrari was that it was anything but a level playing field, as other manufacturers were not doing the same thing. Unless you can prove otherwise.....
fully agree, along with Junro trying to get a name for him self.....
chelme said:
Chris Harris may not have been working for EVO at the time his article in Jalopnik was written, so?
Well it means you cannot even get known things right, so given that, your claims about things unknown to you are rather dubious at best. I'd advise taking it to a court of law, see what the legal people do to you 
Getting back to the topic.
I hope the best for you all. Well done to Mike Sierra for actually trying to do something. It's easy to grumble and then sit on your bum. Do not give away any compensation to charity MS, you deserve it as much as the next person if Porsche pay out, perhaps more so. Perhaps do a charity run out when all the cars are back with you instead ?
A brief summary would be that first your cars were delayed, for an unspecified reason, then the recall, now unfair compensation. That's a very poor sequence of events, I sympathise.
I do disagree with the comments people will forget about this and continue to buy Porsche. Some will but the used market will be wary. I had about £10 000 recently to spend and for that you can get a Boxster now of course. Having read about the engines I decided I could not afford to fix it if it went pop. So I bought an MX5 which I could thrash without worry. It's a worse car but I know it is reliable. I am thinking of getting it turbocharged and still would worry less than if I was driving an earlier Boxster.
Edited by Gandahar on Friday 25th April 11:46
Edited by dazren on Friday 25th April 17:38
TBH I think you have missed the point Gandahar, because the salt of my message is to take what journos say with a pinch of salt because of their personal allegiance to a particular brand.
Anyway good choice with the MX5, will you have it done by BBR by any chance?
Edited by dazren on Friday 25th April 17:38
HoHoHo said:
AndrewD said:
HoHoHo said:
So how has it been working?
Some people have called their OPC and been given a Porsche. Some have been refused. Porsche GB/AG have not been subsidising the OPCs so they've made their own commercial decisions. That's what my OPC did, and they won't be benefiting from my business in future.Some of those customers who didn't "deserve" a loan car from their OPC have been pissed off enough to call PCGB. At which point, Reading customer services, with a straight face, have been offering "something from our mobility scheme, you can choose an Audi, BMW, Mini Countryman, etc". Once you've stopped laughing and realise they are serious, and if you have the energy to argue this, you find out that it does no good. Eventually, you contact Chris Craft PCGB MD. This is what I've done, to their credit they found a nice manual C2S with ducktail and delivered it immediately.
This is how it is working, not just for me but many others I have heard from, and it really shouldn't be like this.
Coming on top of late and incomplete information, it really is pisspoor. PCGB and the OPCs are largely in the dark but they way they have organised themselves to deal with the situation, eg loan cars, has generally made the situation worse. There's a helpful guy from PCGB who calls me from time to time, but the reality is he doesn't really know anything but it is at least a helpful gesture.
What I was suggesting was to simply make verbal contact with the DP (or as you suggest PCGB MD) however the poster hasn't said he had done so and was clearly frustrated with regard to a loan vehicle. It's what you did and it's what I and most others would do and I have done on occasion when I've felt the need to be heard. Regardless of how busy we all are at work we're talking about a very expensive purchase.
As he's commented on several times, it's all about communication.
I'm still hoping it will all work out in the end, but losing the faith ever so little each day
chelme said:
TBH I think you have missed the point Gandahar, because the salt of my message is to take what journos say with a pinch of salt because of their personal allegiance to a particular brand.
Anyway good choice with the MX5, will you have it done by BBR by any chance?
Yes indeed, waiting for about a year or so from when the first people bought them so they can be the test pilots and any wrinkles are ironed out. I am too lazy to setup my own action group Anyway good choice with the MX5, will you have it done by BBR by any chance?
Have a very good weekend !
PS You are right about other manufacturers doing it. The first Autocar review of the Porsche 996 C2 got amazing 0-100mph figures. Never to be repeated it seems. I thought at the time they were fast, someone at Autocar mentioned it the other week and I remembered back.....
Edited by dazren on Friday 25th April 17:39
AndrewD said:
HoHoHo said:
AndrewD said:
HoHoHo said:
So how has it been working?
Some people have called their OPC and been given a Porsche. Some have been refused. Porsche GB/AG have not been subsidising the OPCs so they've made their own commercial decisions. That's what my OPC did, and they won't be benefiting from my business in future.Some of those customers who didn't "deserve" a loan car from their OPC have been pissed off enough to call PCGB. At which point, Reading customer services, with a straight face, have been offering "something from our mobility scheme, you can choose an Audi, BMW, Mini Countryman, etc". Once you've stopped laughing and realise they are serious, and if you have the energy to argue this, you find out that it does no good. Eventually, you contact Chris Craft PCGB MD. This is what I've done, to their credit they found a nice manual C2S with ducktail and delivered it immediately.
This is how it is working, not just for me but many others I have heard from, and it really shouldn't be like this.
Coming on top of late and incomplete information, it really is pisspoor. PCGB and the OPCs are largely in the dark but they way they have organised themselves to deal with the situation, eg loan cars, has generally made the situation worse. There's a helpful guy from PCGB who calls me from time to time, but the reality is he doesn't really know anything but it is at least a helpful gesture.
What I was suggesting was to simply make verbal contact with the DP (or as you suggest PCGB MD) however the poster hasn't said he had done so and was clearly frustrated with regard to a loan vehicle. It's what you did and it's what I and most others would do and I have done on occasion when I've felt the need to be heard. Regardless of how busy we all are at work we're talking about a very expensive purchase.
As he's commented on several times, it's all about communication.
I'm still hoping it will all work out in the end, but losing the faith ever so little each day
If it were me, I'm not sure I could go through this and would probably wait for the cars to be sorted, settle down and then buy a good used example, not the answer if you like new of course
Personally I'm having a few minor issues with my 4 month old M5 and am communicating with the dealer by phone and email and I seem to be getting somewhere - if I had left it to BMW I've no doubt the process would be taking somewhat longer than it is and to be in the situation GT3 buyers find themselves in would drive me nuts.
Anyway, Porsche have a week and it will be interesting to see if there's a reaction and what that is
I'm hoping they don't offer a settlement on the proviso all buyers are gagged..............we want to know what's happening!
chelme said:
Hang on, I am not the one stating that Ferrari was guilty of manipulating cars for track times, YOU are, based on some spurious claim by one Journo (which as an aside has not to date been supported by any other respected journo).So, the onus is on YOU to prove that Ferrari was manipulating cars in the way you have set out. The Jalopnik article contains no proof whatsoever. Innocent until proven guilty, I am afraid.
The proof is in the results of the mag test. Surely no one really believes that the 458 evo test in mid 2011 was a standard customer spec car? That car, nominally on factory standard michelin supersports lapped bedford west faster than a gt2rs on cup tyres......RushSpeed said:
Am I right to remember that Mercedes Benz came out worse in Customer Service over 2/3 year period some time back? Bet they're not now, what happened to them for that to be improved?
Mercedes still have the worst customer service. Honda, Lexus, Toyota dealers piss all over them in terms of superior customer service.Edited by RushSpeed on Saturday 26th April 11:00
isaldiri said:
The proof is in the results of the mag test. Surely no one really believes that the 458 evo test in mid 2011 was a standard customer spec car? That car, nominally on factory standard michelin supersports lapped bedford west faster than a gt2rs on cup tyres......
can't be right Apolo said that a 458 was not as quick as an M3 through the twisty bits and he's driven both
Translation using Google Chrome:
Within a short time, GT3 owners have come together around the world. The "GT3 Worldwide Action Group" is now demanding uniform Porsche payment and information about when the cars are ready to drive again. Group founder Sunil Mehra writes in a press release: "The lack of information and resistance by the manufacturer has caused much frustration among our members."
When asked by MOTOR-TALK Porsche took the situation position. "(...) The individual markets are subject to specific conditions such as local tax laws, import duties and currency differences on the basis of a generally similar information on the procedure in the compensation of our GT3 customers are our subsidiaries or authorized dealer organizations around the world to select the relevant information in the local market approach to satisfy the customer requirements in the context of the available options well.
Our goal is to do everything we can to bring the GT3 cars that have been produced as quickly as possible back on the road, while minimizing the inconvenience this may have caused to the GT3 owners through this situation. According to these possibilities Porsche centers will continue to speak directly with all of our GT3 customer and look after their interests. "
http://www.motor-talk.de/news/exklusiv-zwei-klasse...
This is the first response we've seen by Porsche on the matter. Typical wordy PR response which, if you can be bothered to read it, means nothing at all other than it comes down to whatever they think will satisfy the customer in that market.
Sierra Mike said:
My real name is Sunil Mehra. People who know me also know that I'm principled, have integrity and help others if I can. There are people in this world who make a stand for what's right and make a difference. I try my hardest to be one of those people.
I started this group after giving Porsche enough time to get its house in order. I've read hundreds of posts complaining about how Porsche has conducted itself and the lack of information. The other week, when PCGB missed its self imposed timetable for correspondence, I read about people throwing in the towel and returning cars and withdrawing deposits.
In the interest of full disclosure, I accepted a loan car on the basis that I reserved my right to compensation but have not once asked my dealer of PCGB for compensation. I recognise that my dealer is an independent business who has no say in the matter. PCGB is in the dark as well but they could have handled this better. I was stonewalled in my last conversation with them and haven't bothered them since.
There's no car I would rather drive than a Porsche and I currently own three of them. A 997.2 GT3, a 991 GT3 and a Cayenne Diesel. All of them are great cars. Whilst many of us are longstanding Porsche enthusiasts and customers, it's our enthusiasm for the brand which has been used against us. We've been left in the dark with little to no information of substance. Whilst its customers have acted in good faith, Porsche has not conducted itself in the same manner. We've been passed from dealer to PCGB, PCGB to dealer and vice versa. I don't doubt that Porsche is working around the clock to get the cars back on the road. I don't have an issue with how long this is taking to resolve but I do have an issue with the Company's conduct and treatment of its customers myself included.
As a community of car enthusiasts, Pistonheads brings together many people from many backgrounds and places. We share a passion for cars and driving. Porsche's conduct was openly condemned on this forum till the subject of compensation was brought up. At that point, it's now those customers who are suffering loss/inconvenience who are being condemned by others in the Pistonhead community. Feel free to make comments and retain your anonymity behind a Pistonheads username but, if you're going to criticise people for doing what's right, have the courage to put your real name to your posts or withdraw them. If can't or won't, shame on you.
I stand for what I believe in and I'm making the ffort on this to help other Porsche customers. Porsche needs to stop dictating to its customers and start communicating with them. Not one customer is of any less value than another. Everyone should be treated evenly and fairly. This is not about compensation.
I'm not setting a precedent for other members of the group but, for the avoidance of any doubt as to my motivation, I will donate all of compensation I am offered by Porsche to registered charities. Please feel free to quote this post and cast it in stone.
Sunil Mehra aka Sierra Mike
How can I make contact with you without going through this open forum, I am a prospective 991 GT3 owner? Many thanks I started this group after giving Porsche enough time to get its house in order. I've read hundreds of posts complaining about how Porsche has conducted itself and the lack of information. The other week, when PCGB missed its self imposed timetable for correspondence, I read about people throwing in the towel and returning cars and withdrawing deposits.
In the interest of full disclosure, I accepted a loan car on the basis that I reserved my right to compensation but have not once asked my dealer of PCGB for compensation. I recognise that my dealer is an independent business who has no say in the matter. PCGB is in the dark as well but they could have handled this better. I was stonewalled in my last conversation with them and haven't bothered them since.
There's no car I would rather drive than a Porsche and I currently own three of them. A 997.2 GT3, a 991 GT3 and a Cayenne Diesel. All of them are great cars. Whilst many of us are longstanding Porsche enthusiasts and customers, it's our enthusiasm for the brand which has been used against us. We've been left in the dark with little to no information of substance. Whilst its customers have acted in good faith, Porsche has not conducted itself in the same manner. We've been passed from dealer to PCGB, PCGB to dealer and vice versa. I don't doubt that Porsche is working around the clock to get the cars back on the road. I don't have an issue with how long this is taking to resolve but I do have an issue with the Company's conduct and treatment of its customers myself included.
As a community of car enthusiasts, Pistonheads brings together many people from many backgrounds and places. We share a passion for cars and driving. Porsche's conduct was openly condemned on this forum till the subject of compensation was brought up. At that point, it's now those customers who are suffering loss/inconvenience who are being condemned by others in the Pistonhead community. Feel free to make comments and retain your anonymity behind a Pistonheads username but, if you're going to criticise people for doing what's right, have the courage to put your real name to your posts or withdraw them. If can't or won't, shame on you.
I stand for what I believe in and I'm making the ffort on this to help other Porsche customers. Porsche needs to stop dictating to its customers and start communicating with them. Not one customer is of any less value than another. Everyone should be treated evenly and fairly. This is not about compensation.
I'm not setting a precedent for other members of the group but, for the avoidance of any doubt as to my motivation, I will donate all of compensation I am offered by Porsche to registered charities. Please feel free to quote this post and cast it in stone.
Sunil Mehra aka Sierra Mike
I'm hopefully going to be a proud owner of a GT3 in a few of months (original delivery was planned for April). You would think that as a minimum for your signed order the price would at least stay the same (if not reduced) - you would be wrong. I've been informed today that like for like option as I now have a 2014 car the price has gone up! Come on Porsche are you joking?
Sierra Mike said:
We have today, filed our GT3 Worldwide Action Group Letter of complaint, to Porsche AG senior management. A separate communication has also concurrently been sent to Porsche sales offices and regional distributors across the globe.
This letter was the culmination of an intense collaborative/consultative approach between 100+ 991 GT3 stakeholders from across the globe via a private forum that was created for this purpose.
The letter seeks to take PAG to task on the issues of communication and fair treatment across regions, in relation to the 991 GT3 "engine rod bolt recall" and the customers it affects. To the best of our knowledge Porsche AG have not at this time consulted the stakeholders directly with regards to these matters!
We hope you will take some time out of your busy schedules to click on the link below and read what has been submitted to dealers and PAG.
We also urge you, as a 991 GT3 "stakeholder", regardless on whether or not you have been a direct part of the GT3 Worldwide Action Group Forum to press upon your supplying dealer the contents of this communication. Your dealer may be aware of the letter and it should help achieve a satisfactory remedy for you. If your dealer hasn't received the letter, please share the DP or sales manager's email address with us and we'll be happy to send it directly.
Thank you for your support.
Sierra Mike & Macca
A full copy of the communication to both dealers and PAG appears here:
http://tinyurl.com/991GT3-PAGletter
A sample below:
This letter was the culmination of an intense collaborative/consultative approach between 100+ 991 GT3 stakeholders from across the globe via a private forum that was created for this purpose.
The letter seeks to take PAG to task on the issues of communication and fair treatment across regions, in relation to the 991 GT3 "engine rod bolt recall" and the customers it affects. To the best of our knowledge Porsche AG have not at this time consulted the stakeholders directly with regards to these matters!
We hope you will take some time out of your busy schedules to click on the link below and read what has been submitted to dealers and PAG.
We also urge you, as a 991 GT3 "stakeholder", regardless on whether or not you have been a direct part of the GT3 Worldwide Action Group Forum to press upon your supplying dealer the contents of this communication. Your dealer may be aware of the letter and it should help achieve a satisfactory remedy for you. If your dealer hasn't received the letter, please share the DP or sales manager's email address with us and we'll be happy to send it directly.
Thank you for your support.
Sierra Mike & Macca
A full copy of the communication to both dealers and PAG appears here:
http://tinyurl.com/991GT3-PAGletter
A sample below:
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