Internal Staircase may not comply with building regs?

[Chucklehead]

I'm interested in a flat that is on the market at the moment. It was once a very large detached Victorian house but is now split in to three flats. The top floor takes over the full footprint and is now one flat. The ground floor is split in to two "duplex" properties with kitchen / living upstairs and bedrooms downstairs.

The conversion looks to have been done 5-10 years ago and is a little bit tired and is on my risky-but-might-be-worth-a-punt list. I like it, but there are a number of issues - mainly concerns about damp (rising or penetrating) and quite a lot of tidy up work required, aesthetic mainly I hope.

There is one thing on the home report that I was looking for advice on.. "the internal staircase may not comply with current building regulations and further advice should be sought". The staircase is, I'm told, Italian. I'm rubbish at descriptions, but if you imagine that each step is a wooden leaf held together at one end with a series of very large bolts and caps in a sort of half spiral design. It can be tightened by removing the caps and hulking up the bolts. According to the owner, the space inbetween the steel bannister was too wide and she had to screw plywood over them before she was allowed to rent it.

I'll be removing that! But does this sound accurate, and what potential repercussions are there. Is there any way to confirm this conversion has been "signed off"?

[papercup]

No more than 10cm gap between anything; "a baby's head" apparently. So thats the gaps between treads, or the gaps between balustrade components, or the gaps between treads and balustrades, or....

Post up a picture and it will be easier.

[Spudler]

As above. Also the measurements of the treads & risers D x H.

[Chucklehead]

Thanks all. I viewed the property again last night and unfortunately didn't get any pictures of the stairs, I'll get some next week when I intend to get a second survey done.

Implications if I remove the plywood and get on with life? Or is that more of a resale issue?

[papercup]

Spudler said:

As above. Also the measurements of the treads & risers D x H.

Yes, that as well; I forgot. Also the amount of overlap of the treads, the 'going'. Maximum angle of 42 degrees isn't it? Or maybe that is the ideal angle, and it can be steeper, but no steeper than a certain angle. There's many rules for them! Some are a little illogical; you can make a balustrade with those steel cables with the correct 10cm gap, but a baby would be easily able to push its head through, pushing the cables apart. The structure should not be 'climbable', but that ignores that fact that any staircase with gaps of any size is basically a climbing frame! Its all a bit silly.

I think you'll have issues selling, and you'll definitely have issues renting.

[Chucklehead]

Turns out they had some decent images on the rightmove page. No measurements yet though

[98elise]

Chucklehead said:

Thanks all. I viewed the property again last night and unfortunately didn't get any pictures of the stairs, I'll get some next week when I intend to get a second survey done.

Implications if I remove the plywood and get on with life? Or is that more of a resale issue?

If you intend to live in it, then you can do pretty much anything you want. Its a resale or rental issue. I bought a BTL house a few years ago that had no banister or spindles at all, so we had to install a new on.

How many stories is the property, as that has other implications for fire protection? Was the property properly converted, ie did it have PP and Building Regs approval?

[Chucklehead]

Thanks - great question. I'd like to know that myself. How can I check?

The flat itself is ground floor and basement although ground floor has a second exit out the back (on a slope front to back). So technically the whole property is basement, ground, first.

[Little Lofty]

I'd say they definitely have open risers that a 100mm sphere would pass through so won't comply.It may be worth checking the work has been signed off by building control.

[98elise]

Chucklehead said:

Thanks - great question. I'd like to know that myself. How can I check?

The flat itself is ground floor and basement although ground floor has a second exit out the back (on a slope front to back). So technically the whole property is basement, ground, first.

You local council may have it all on line, mine does. It costs nothing, as PP is something that has to be made public.

[Chucklehead]

Definitely had planning permission. 2004 it was granted.

[Spudler]

Easy to rectify.
Two options, you may be able to buy bars from a spiral staircase supplier or get some made up to suit the opening.

[Chucklehead]

So it's bannister stuff we're talking about here rather than the gap between the steps?

[Spudler]

Chucklehead said:

So it's bannister stuff we're talking about here rather than the gap between the steps?

Nope, other way round

[papercup]

Chucklehead said:

Definitely had planning permission. 2004 it was granted.

Not a Planning Issue, but that of Building Control. Planning is how it looks (the outside). Building Control take over after you've started building and sign the house off as completed at the end. The house may never have been signed off as a finished job. I know someone with a similar staircase whose been living in their house for several years and because of their staircase was never signed off. They know it will be an issue at resale.

I'll throw a picture up of theirs later.

[Chucklehead]

Thanks all for your advice.

Spudler, if not the bannister, why ruin an interesting staircase by screwing plywood to the banister??

How can I confirm building control?

[stanwan]

Chucklehead said:

Thanks all for your advice.

Spudler, if not the bannister, why ruin an interesting staircase by screwing plywood to the banister??

How can I confirm building control?

I viewed a house 1 year ago with a similar issue. They retrofitted glass panelling to retain the look of the staircase and satisfy regualtions.

[Spudler]

Chucklehead said:

if not the bannister, why ruin an interesting staircase by screwing plywood to the banister?

Crossed wires there a bit.
The bannister will pass BC with the naff ply but the gap should have a riser bar to reduce the gap to less than 100mm.
If you were to take the ply off they'd still require gaps of no less than 100mm, hence someone has nailed some delightfull strips of ply.

[98elise]

papercup said:

Chucklehead said:

Definitely had planning permission. 2004 it was granted.

Not a Planning Issue, but that of Building Control. Planning is how it looks (the outside). Building Control take over after you've started building and sign the house off as completed at the end. The house may never have been signed off as a finished job. I know someone with a similar staircase whose been living in their house for several years and because of their staircase was never signed off. They know it will be an issue at resale.

I'll throw a picture up of theirs later.

This. You can live in a house/extension/conversion that has not been signed off, but it will make it hard (but not impossible) to sell. Unless its dangerous the council will just wait for you to call them in and get it signed off.

When we did our extension, the inspector told me his record was 25 years between a extension being started, and it finally being signed off!

[Little Lofty]

98elise said:

This. You can live in a house/extension/conversion that has not been signed off, but it will make it hard (but not impossible) to sell. Unless its dangerous the council will just wait for you to call them in and get it signed off.

When we did our extension, the inspector told me his record was 25 years between a extension being started, and it finally being signed off!

That makes me feel better, I started my loft conversion about 5 years ago, its liveable but not yet signed off