Thinking of an ST220
Discussion
After a year or so with my current car ('97 328iS) I fancy a change, but my criteria is quite specific:
Petrol
Ideally a nice sounding 6 pot
£3k maximum purchase price
Comfortable
Reliable, but not overly expensive if things go wrong
Reasonable insurance
Nice to potter about in, but capable of a B-road blast
I realise this is prime 5 Series territory, but I have owned a 528i in the past, and have had three BMWs in a row, so a change would be nice. I think the ST220 is a very handsome car, and having had a quick look into ST220s they seem to have a decent following on here. The other option I think would be an MG ZT.
The running costs are very important, not so much the fuel as I will be doing <3k p.a., but general maintenance costs must be reasonable, ideally with little chance of surprise expensive bills.
Am I in the right ball park with the Mondeo? Any opinions would be appreciated.
Petrol
Ideally a nice sounding 6 pot
£3k maximum purchase price
Comfortable
Reliable, but not overly expensive if things go wrong
Reasonable insurance
Nice to potter about in, but capable of a B-road blast
I realise this is prime 5 Series territory, but I have owned a 528i in the past, and have had three BMWs in a row, so a change would be nice. I think the ST220 is a very handsome car, and having had a quick look into ST220s they seem to have a decent following on here. The other option I think would be an MG ZT.
The running costs are very important, not so much the fuel as I will be doing <3k p.a., but general maintenance costs must be reasonable, ideally with little chance of surprise expensive bills.
Am I in the right ball park with the Mondeo? Any opinions would be appreciated.
I had one for 12 months. It was fun enough, the engine was fine, but I swore i'd never have one again.
Mainly, everything on it broke. Engine and gearbox were perfect, but everything else was s
t. Things that broke:
Rear heated window
Door window
Boot leaked heavily
Car would stall on full lock
Seats were amazingly uncomfortable
Glovebox broke
Alloys broke
Armrest
Air vents broke
etc etc.
Now, for some reason, i'm currently looking at St Estates as my next car...
Mainly, everything on it broke. Engine and gearbox were perfect, but everything else was s
t. Things that broke:Rear heated window
Door window
Boot leaked heavily
Car would stall on full lock
Seats were amazingly uncomfortable
Glovebox broke
Alloys broke
Armrest
Air vents broke
etc etc.
Now, for some reason, i'm currently looking at St Estates as my next car...
I was going to mention fuel, as they're a fair bit thirstier than the performance can justify, especially coming from a 328i which I find rather better than it deserves to be - but your mileage makes that a non-issue, nice one.
The ST sounds really good, and feels like it wants to be driven, which is appealing. The cabin is a nice enough place to spend time - certainly leagues ahead of the E36 in this respect. It is a heavy car, hides it well in a straight line because the engine is good and broad, but don't go asking really big questions of the chassis!
The turn-off for me is the general build quality of the Mk3 Mondeo. Stuff that really should not be going wrong on a car of that age does break.. From little irritations like bootlid gas struts to bigger ones like air con failures, it does feel like a lot of corners have been cut. I'd go into it with my eyes open and definitely not expecting a "nice, modern, trouble-free car" but if you're happy to spend a few quid every now and then, could be a good choice.
The ST sounds really good, and feels like it wants to be driven, which is appealing. The cabin is a nice enough place to spend time - certainly leagues ahead of the E36 in this respect. It is a heavy car, hides it well in a straight line because the engine is good and broad, but don't go asking really big questions of the chassis!
The turn-off for me is the general build quality of the Mk3 Mondeo. Stuff that really should not be going wrong on a car of that age does break.. From little irritations like bootlid gas struts to bigger ones like air con failures, it does feel like a lot of corners have been cut. I'd go into it with my eyes open and definitely not expecting a "nice, modern, trouble-free car" but if you're happy to spend a few quid every now and then, could be a good choice.
I have a blue ST220 estate which I have had a year.
Its a great drive, very comfy and smooth. Recaro seats excellent, loads of toys and cheap.
later 6 speed cars are favourite, rear doors can corrode, that said mines a 53 plate and fine.
problems were traced to a faulty coil pack for a hesitation I had. Standard brakes are terrible, but the focus St ones fit straight on. something I did.
I get 26mpg, but I drive quite hard and that's with a bluefin and as JP exhaust
Its a great drive, very comfy and smooth. Recaro seats excellent, loads of toys and cheap.
later 6 speed cars are favourite, rear doors can corrode, that said mines a 53 plate and fine.
problems were traced to a faulty coil pack for a hesitation I had. Standard brakes are terrible, but the focus St ones fit straight on. something I did.
I get 26mpg, but I drive quite hard and that's with a bluefin and as JP exhaust
Ran one for 4 years and 30k miles with minimal issues. Ford parts and trusted local garage meant cheap servicing too.
Not sure where the "don't ask much of the chassis" comments come from - for a car of its size it handles well.
An aftermarket exhaust helps the aural fun, and I upgraded the front calipers to larger Focus ST items.
Facelift cars (6 speed box) are worth the extra IMO.
ETA - this is worth a read http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Not sure where the "don't ask much of the chassis" comments come from - for a car of its size it handles well.
An aftermarket exhaust helps the aural fun, and I upgraded the front calipers to larger Focus ST items.
Facelift cars (6 speed box) are worth the extra IMO.
ETA - this is worth a read http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Edited by Podie on Wednesday 23 April 21:16
I ran an ST220 for 60k miles and loved it. Indeed I'm now thinking about buying another to run as a second car (daily driver/mountain bike lugger). I sold mine about 110,000 miles and during my ownership reliability was excellent. At 75k miles roughly the clutch went (thrust bearing failure IIRC) which cost about £900 to sort, but otherwise no BIG bills. In 60k miles it had -
- All four wheel bearings done (just shy of 100k miles) - Rears can be done DIY in under an hour and for minimal cost.
- rear calipers at 105k miles - you can get new Bosch ones for under £80
- One of the suspension springs failed at 107k miles - Ford wanted £150 for the spring excl fitting so I bought the Eibach spring kit (£150 for all 4 springs) and paid £150 to have them fitted. Amazingly made the car more comfortable as well as handle better and sit nicer without being too low. I wished I'd done it from day one
- Reverse switch went - DIY job £30
- Breather hose failed - common ST220 issue and cheap fix (though it can be awkward to change due to location)
Only other big expense was fuel and front tyres. It is a nose heavy car with a reasonable bit of power going through the fronts so if you drive them hard they will kill front tyres. Nothing terrible though.
As mentioned before, standard brakes are poor. Actually, that's not fair, they are good...for the first two heavy braking zones. Then they fade quickly. Fitting Focus ST front brake calipers, pads and discs sorts this.
The V6 sounds great! I miss the noise of mine a lot. I had a Milltek cat back exhaust on the car that made a great noise to the point I'd drive with back seats down to hear it better on hoons (yes, I know, sad eh) but at the same time it never droned on a cruise or sounded raspy (personally I think raspy exhausts lack class).
I don't echo comments on build quality - mine was pretty good all things considered. And for the price of the car I was certainly happy. The heated seat regulator broke (common fault) meaning the seat would heat to the point where you could smell your own flesh burning but as I don't like heated seats this wasn't a big loss. Everything else worked as it should.
Handling wise, it is 1600kg of big car (they are bigger than they look - park side by side with a 5 series and see what I mean) so it isn't going to set the world on sire, but you can certainly have a great time with one. It actually sometimes felt more composed the faster you went.
Engine is good, but needs to be revved - no hardship given the noise but it does use fuel. 26mpg was roughly what I averaged during ownership but I was never fussed on fuel economy so didn't care.
Let us know if you go for one.
- All four wheel bearings done (just shy of 100k miles) - Rears can be done DIY in under an hour and for minimal cost.
- rear calipers at 105k miles - you can get new Bosch ones for under £80
- One of the suspension springs failed at 107k miles - Ford wanted £150 for the spring excl fitting so I bought the Eibach spring kit (£150 for all 4 springs) and paid £150 to have them fitted. Amazingly made the car more comfortable as well as handle better and sit nicer without being too low. I wished I'd done it from day one
- Reverse switch went - DIY job £30
- Breather hose failed - common ST220 issue and cheap fix (though it can be awkward to change due to location)
Only other big expense was fuel and front tyres. It is a nose heavy car with a reasonable bit of power going through the fronts so if you drive them hard they will kill front tyres. Nothing terrible though.
As mentioned before, standard brakes are poor. Actually, that's not fair, they are good...for the first two heavy braking zones. Then they fade quickly. Fitting Focus ST front brake calipers, pads and discs sorts this.
The V6 sounds great! I miss the noise of mine a lot. I had a Milltek cat back exhaust on the car that made a great noise to the point I'd drive with back seats down to hear it better on hoons (yes, I know, sad eh) but at the same time it never droned on a cruise or sounded raspy (personally I think raspy exhausts lack class).
I don't echo comments on build quality - mine was pretty good all things considered. And for the price of the car I was certainly happy. The heated seat regulator broke (common fault) meaning the seat would heat to the point where you could smell your own flesh burning but as I don't like heated seats this wasn't a big loss. Everything else worked as it should.
Handling wise, it is 1600kg of big car (they are bigger than they look - park side by side with a 5 series and see what I mean) so it isn't going to set the world on sire, but you can certainly have a great time with one. It actually sometimes felt more composed the faster you went.
Engine is good, but needs to be revved - no hardship given the noise but it does use fuel. 26mpg was roughly what I averaged during ownership but I was never fussed on fuel economy so didn't care.
Let us know if you go for one.
fjord said:
I had one for 12 months. It was fun enough, the engine was fine, but I swore i'd never have one again.
Mainly, everything on it broke. Engine and gearbox were perfect, but everything else was st. Things that broke:
Rear heated window
Door window
Boot leaked heavily
Car would stall on full lock
Seats were amazingly uncomfortable
Glovebox broke
Alloys broke
Armrest
Air vents broke
etc etc.
Now, for some reason, i'm currently looking at St Estates as my next car...
That comment on the seat surprises me, I find the Recaro's great. Let's face it, a lot of the faults you list are not common. In fact I've not heard of anyone suffering from the same issues when on various forums.Mainly, everything on it broke. Engine and gearbox were perfect, but everything else was s
t. Things that broke:Rear heated window
Door window
Boot leaked heavily
Car would stall on full lock
Seats were amazingly uncomfortable
Glovebox broke
Alloys broke
Armrest
Air vents broke
etc etc.
Now, for some reason, i'm currently looking at St Estates as my next car...
If buying I'd want something built after 2004, the rusty doors issue is just too much risk.
I had a 2002 2.5 V6 Zetec for 3 years. I nearly got the ST220 after but went down the Honda Accord route instead.
The handling was superb for a big car. The car was very comfortable and practical. The interior was prone to wear and tear and looked a bit shabby. The plastic around the door handles peeled away quite early and I've seen a few Mondeo's in a similar state.
It cost a lot to maintain, much more than my Honda or 3 series. The sub frame bushes need doing regularly on these and it's an expensive job labour wise. The front suspention spring snapped, twice! The mechanic told me it was quite common. The worry was the second time it happened, a large piece of broken pointy metal was pointing right at the tyre. If I had not noticed before setting off, it could have ripped the tyre up under load.
Overall, I liked the car but when things kept going wrong, I got rid. The BMW is in a different league for me but I'd definately consider an ST220 if I needed a cheap, practical fastish car to run for a year or two.
The handling was superb for a big car. The car was very comfortable and practical. The interior was prone to wear and tear and looked a bit shabby. The plastic around the door handles peeled away quite early and I've seen a few Mondeo's in a similar state.
It cost a lot to maintain, much more than my Honda or 3 series. The sub frame bushes need doing regularly on these and it's an expensive job labour wise. The front suspention spring snapped, twice! The mechanic told me it was quite common. The worry was the second time it happened, a large piece of broken pointy metal was pointing right at the tyre. If I had not noticed before setting off, it could have ripped the tyre up under load.
Overall, I liked the car but when things kept going wrong, I got rid. The BMW is in a different league for me but I'd definately consider an ST220 if I needed a cheap, practical fastish car to run for a year or two.
PaulD86 said:
As mentioned before, standard brakes are poor. Actually, that's not fair, they are good...for the first two heavy braking zones. Then they fade quickly. Fitting Focus ST front brake calipers, pads and discs sorts this.
It doesn't sound like an issue with the OEM calipers/discs if the first two heavy breaking episodes are fine. Sounds more like it's a heavy car that will expectedly put a lot of strain on the fluid and pads. A £60 brake fluid change to something higher temp and some better pads would probably solve it.10 Pence Short said:
It doesn't sound like an issue with the OEM calipers/discs if the first two heavy breaking episodes are fine. Sounds more like it's a heavy car that will expectedly put a lot of strain on the fluid and pads. A £60 brake fluid change to something higher temp and some better pads would probably solve it.
The brakes are a very commonly reported shortcoming of the 220. On the ST forum I'm on I'm aware of probably in excess of 100 people who have taken the Focus upgrade route. Many others have just done upgraded pads, discs etc on standard setup but results never seem quite as good. The difference for me going from standard calipers with upgraded pads to the Focus ST setup with just standard pads (and discs) was huge. Yes, better fluid, pads and discs will improve things, but really if you want to see a big improvement or drive the car hard you want to go the Focus ST brake route. That my current 1.8 'shed' Mondeo shares brake setup with the ST220 exactly suggests that Ford may have overlooked them a little when developing the 'quick' version of the Mondeo.
PaulD86 said:
10 Pence Short said:
It doesn't sound like an issue with the OEM calipers/discs if the first two heavy breaking episodes are fine. Sounds more like it's a heavy car that will expectedly put a lot of strain on the fluid and pads. A £60 brake fluid change to something higher temp and some better pads would probably solve it.
The brakes are a very commonly reported shortcoming of the 220. On the ST forum I'm on I'm aware of probably in excess of 100 people who have taken the Focus upgrade route. Many others have just done upgraded pads, discs etc on standard setup but results never seem quite as good. The difference for me going from standard calipers with upgraded pads to the Focus ST setup with just standard pads (and discs) was huge. Yes, better fluid, pads and discs will improve things, but really if you want to see a big improvement or drive the car hard you want to go the Focus ST brake route. That my current 1.8 'shed' Mondeo shares brake setup with the ST220 exactly suggests that Ford may have overlooked them a little when developing the 'quick' version of the Mondeo.
However, what a lot of people appear to do is compare worn discs and pads, against Focus ST calipers, new disc, pads and fluid.
That said, I think the 220 really should have left the factory with the same as the Focus ST.
Podie said:
The Mk3 Mondeo range does share the same brake setup across the range.
However, what a lot of people appear to do is compare worn discs and pads, against Focus ST calipers, new disc, pads and fluid.
That said, I think the 220 really should have left the factory with the same as the Focus ST.
I hear what you're saying, but when I put on the Focus ST setup I initially used the used pads and discs that I got 'free' with the calipers (I don't condone using 2nd hand pads/discs but the calipers were a very opportunistic purchase and all was done in a rush meaning, initally, I just went with what I got before later fitting new pads and discs) and these were about 70% pad remaining. The brakes they replaced were actually newer so I'd discount the worn/new comparison here. However, what a lot of people appear to do is compare worn discs and pads, against Focus ST calipers, new disc, pads and fluid.
That said, I think the 220 really should have left the factory with the same as the Focus ST.
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