HADECS 3 cameras on the M25
Discussion
mybrainhurts said:
And serves no useful purpose, other than raising money and adding to the list of drivers banned under totting up, who might lose their jobs, which might lead to losing their houses which might lead to families breaking up.
Never mind, eh? We'll have slowed down traffic on the safest roads in the country and made the staff at BRAKE go all gooey and orgasmic.
As we know that would never happen. If the NSL was reduced to 50 the staff at brake would still be campaigning to have it reduced even further. They would never be satisfied. Never mind, eh? We'll have slowed down traffic on the safest roads in the country and made the staff at BRAKE go all gooey and orgasmic.
mygoldfishbowl said:
Googie said:
Good post by Havoc-strict enforcement of 70mph is all stick and no carrot
But there still is no strict enforcement of 70 & havoc will not instantly receive a ticket for exceeding 80.The point is that people DON'T KNOW what the cameras are set at, so will drive at 70 anyway (or less...the amount of people I follow who brake for cameras when they're already under the limit is ridiculous...). This will have two consequences:-
- it will adversely affect mean traffic speed and thus impact on traffic flow
- it will lead to concertina'ing / bunching, as idiot A brakes unnecessarily because they've seen a camera, tailgater B has to brake harder, etc. etc. etc. Which will probably cause more accidents...and will certainly reinforce the point above about traffic flow.
Do you know this will always be the case on every smart motorway? Just because you've got away with it once, it doesn't mean you always will. Police forces may set different tolerances on their cameras or may change them, the ones you've passed doing 80mph may not have been active at the time.
Every fixed camera is at least 10%+2. No, I can't give you proof apart from my own experience with these new Hadecs3 cameras, I'm sorry. On the other side no one will show proof of enforcing 70. My experience as someone who drives for a living regularly on the M25 is... Be sensible & much over 90 you may get a nip. My opinion.
R8VXF said:
mybrainhurts said:
And I'd risk a little bet that the online market for fake number plates is about to explode.
robinessex said:
R8VXF said:
mybrainhurts said:
And I'd risk a little bet that the online market for fake number plates is about to explode.
mygoldfishbowl said:
Can't argue with anything you say. You wont get a nip for 80.
You can, if you provide a reasoned argument. I'm a scientist by education and a rationalist by inclination...note I've not engaged in the hyperbole and mud-slinging on this thread!!!Ref. that last post, I'm talking about the difference between psychology and reality.
- Reality is that you're 90+% likely to be right. Anyone happy to 'play the odds' will most probably not get a ticket. So I'm not disagreeing with your assessment, rather the likely real-world application of the cameras and the way the national media is portraying them.
- Psychology for most (IMHO far more than 90% of) people is "why take the risk" - particularly if they drive a certain route daily, as the up-to-14-days gap between offence and letter-through-the-post means they could end up banned before they know they've been done. And doubly-so if the media are telling them so - hell, 1/2 the country get their facts straight from the tabloids!
So the existence of those cameras, and the (mis-)reporting by the press, will have a detrimental effect on speeds, traffic flow and most likely accident rates on the stretches of M-way where they exist, if not all of the 'Managed motorway' sections. All at a cost of >>£100m to the taxpayer. What a result...
I'd like some official confirmation as to what speed will trigger the HADECS cameras during normal NSL operation. I assume (hope!) they'd fellow ACPO guidelines.
As mentioned earlier in the thread, my impression for the gantry cameras on the M1 was they'd activate at speeds >85mph.
Strictly enforcing the 70mph limit benefits no-one.
As mentioned earlier in the thread, my impression for the gantry cameras on the M1 was they'd activate at speeds >85mph.
Strictly enforcing the 70mph limit benefits no-one.
You'll never be told, for the reasons Havoc has stated. We haven't been told that they will strictly enforce the 70mph limit. In other words, be triggered at 71mph + or, as per ACPO guidelines, 78mph +. You would have thought that, if that were always the case, we would be in order to strictly deter speeding.
The reality is that people speed on the motorways in moderation. 90mph + might be pushing your luck on a stretch of motorway prone to sudden waves of congestion but 85mph on a motorway is perfectly routine without the world ending. Therefore, the cameras being triggered at anything below this speed would probably result in lots of people who drive regularly for work purposes losing their licences which would have a detrimental effect on the economy and may well trigger mass dissent over speed limits and speed cameras.
The presence of the cameras and deliberate vagueness over what speed triggers them when the NSL is in force, and a few people being booked for very high speeds, will keep speeds down. If the cameras are only triggered at quite high speeds it prevents an excessive number of people being booked for speeds that most people don't consider inappropriate.
That's only a theory, however, and I've never tried going through cameras at anything more than an indicated 78mph on my digital speedometer.
The reality is that people speed on the motorways in moderation. 90mph + might be pushing your luck on a stretch of motorway prone to sudden waves of congestion but 85mph on a motorway is perfectly routine without the world ending. Therefore, the cameras being triggered at anything below this speed would probably result in lots of people who drive regularly for work purposes losing their licences which would have a detrimental effect on the economy and may well trigger mass dissent over speed limits and speed cameras.
The presence of the cameras and deliberate vagueness over what speed triggers them when the NSL is in force, and a few people being booked for very high speeds, will keep speeds down. If the cameras are only triggered at quite high speeds it prevents an excessive number of people being booked for speeds that most people don't consider inappropriate.
That's only a theory, however, and I've never tried going through cameras at anything more than an indicated 78mph on my digital speedometer.
Blakewater said:
You'll never be told, for the reasons Havoc has stated. We haven't been told that they will strictly enforce the 70mph limit. In other words, be triggered at 71mph + or, as per ACPO guidelines, 78mph +. You would have thought that, if that were always the case, we would be in order to strictly deter speeding.
The reality is that people speed on the motorways in moderation. 90mph + might be pushing your luck on a stretch of motorway prone to sudden waves of congestion but 85mph on a motorway is perfectly routine without the world ending. Therefore, the cameras being triggered at anything below this speed would probably result in lots of people who drive regularly for work purposes losing their licences which would have a detrimental effect on the economy and may well trigger mass dissent over speed limits and speed cameras.
The presence of the cameras and deliberate vagueness over what speed triggers them when the NSL is in force, and a few people being booked for very high speeds, will keep speeds down. If the cameras are only triggered at quite high speeds it prevents an excessive number of people being booked for speeds that most people don't consider inappropriate.
That's only a theory, however, and I've never tried going through cameras at anything more than an indicated 78mph on my digital speedometer.
I don't think it will result in masses of people losing their licences. Sure a few might (those who want to be sacrificial lambs), but the subsequent publicity will mean that most will moderate their behaviour to avoid that outcome. After all lots already do by not pushing/testing the prosecution threshold envelope.The reality is that people speed on the motorways in moderation. 90mph + might be pushing your luck on a stretch of motorway prone to sudden waves of congestion but 85mph on a motorway is perfectly routine without the world ending. Therefore, the cameras being triggered at anything below this speed would probably result in lots of people who drive regularly for work purposes losing their licences which would have a detrimental effect on the economy and may well trigger mass dissent over speed limits and speed cameras.
The presence of the cameras and deliberate vagueness over what speed triggers them when the NSL is in force, and a few people being booked for very high speeds, will keep speeds down. If the cameras are only triggered at quite high speeds it prevents an excessive number of people being booked for speeds that most people don't consider inappropriate.
That's only a theory, however, and I've never tried going through cameras at anything more than an indicated 78mph on my digital speedometer.
g3org3y said:
I'd like some official confirmation as to what speed will trigger the HADECS cameras during normal NSL operation. I assume (hope!) they'd fellow ACPO guidelines.
As mentioned earlier in the thread, my impression for the gantry cameras on the M1 was they'd activate at speeds >85mph.
Strictly enforcing the 70mph limit benefits no-one.
That's not true though. Strictly enforcing the speed limit very quickly removes any of the ambiguity over prosecution thresholds that you are currently suffering from/complaining about.As mentioned earlier in the thread, my impression for the gantry cameras on the M1 was they'd activate at speeds >85mph.
Strictly enforcing the 70mph limit benefits no-one.
havoc said:
mygoldfishbowl said:
Googie said:
Good post by Havoc-strict enforcement of 70mph is all stick and no carrot
But there still is no strict enforcement of 70 & havoc will not instantly receive a ticket for exceeding 80.The point is that people DON'T KNOW what the cameras are set at, so will drive at 70 anyway (or less...the amount of people I follow who brake for cameras when they're already under the limit is ridiculous...). This will have two consequences:-
- it will adversely affect mean traffic speed and thus impact on traffic flow
- it will lead to concertina'ing / bunching, as idiot A brakes unnecessarily because they've seen a camera, tailgater B has to brake harder, etc. etc. etc. Which will probably cause more accidents...and will certainly reinforce the point above about traffic flow.
mygoldfishbowl said:
Every fixed camera is at least 10%+2. No, I can't give you proof apart from my own experience with these new Hadecs3 cameras, I'm sorry. On the other side no one will show proof of enforcing 70. My experience as someone who drives for a living regularly on the M25 is... Be sensible & much over 90 you may get a nip. My opinion.
Here's someone who was caught exceeding 70mph/NSl with the signs switched off:manthatkid on pepipoo.com said:
Wed, 13 Jun 2012 - 12:30
I've used the calculator already but thanks for the link. Without knowing if Overtime is inclusive or not though i'm unable to calculate my weekly wage accurately.
The Gantry's Variable Speed Displays were switched off and so it was the full 70mph.
source: http://forums.pepipoo.com/lofiversion/index.php/t7...I've used the calculator already but thanks for the link. Without knowing if Overtime is inclusive or not though i'm unable to calculate my weekly wage accurately.
The Gantry's Variable Speed Displays were switched off and so it was the full 70mph.
Edited by emmaT2014 on Sunday 25th January 17:06
mygoldfishbowl said:
Every fixed camera is at least 10%+2.
Don't rely on that. Our previous chief constable decided a handful of cameras in the county needed to trigger at 32 in a 30 because accidents were too high. I thought this was a rumour until I met several people who had been done for 32.
emmaT2014 said:
mygoldfishbowl said:
Every fixed camera is at least 10%+2. No, I can't give you proof apart from my own experience with these new Hadecs3 cameras, I'm sorry. On the other side no one will show proof of enforcing 70. My experience as someone who drives for a living regularly on the M25 is... Be sensible & much over 90 you may get a nip. My opinion.
Here's someone who was caught exceeding 70mph/NSl with the signs switched off:manthatkid on pepipoo.com said:
Wed, 13 Jun 2012 - 12:30
I've used the calculator already but thanks for the link. Without knowing if Overtime is inclusive or not though i'm unable to calculate my weekly wage accurately.
The Gantry's Variable Speed Displays were switched off and so it was the full 70mph.
source: http://forums.pepipoo.com/lofiversion/index.php/t7...I've used the calculator already but thanks for the link. Without knowing if Overtime is inclusive or not though i'm unable to calculate my weekly wage accurately.
The Gantry's Variable Speed Displays were switched off and so it was the full 70mph.
There are other recent threads here regarding variable limit gantry cameras flashing when the limit was not below 70 on the M62 and M25. Nobody has come forward to say they've been done though.
emmaT2014 said:
Well if you see any reports that the government has legislated to give the Highways Agency powers to make a prosecution let us know, until then the HA will not be issuing tickets at 75 in a 70 limit...or have I missed something?
OK, I must have done (probably inaccurate reporting), because these cameras:-a) are called HADECS, as are the gantry-based ones. Implication in the name is HA owns them.
b) HA 'spent' £140m on installing them in whichever location we're talking about (assume SE M25). Again, implying ownership.
So assuming it's not the HA (makes sense on reflection), could you explain how it works - do HA operate on behalf of someone else, did HA just install and in which case who operates, and finally, who sets the trigger point(s) and on behalf of / on instructions from who?
havoc said:
emmaT2014 said:
Well if you see any reports that the government has legislated to give the Highways Agency powers to make a prosecution let us know, until then the HA will not be issuing tickets at 75 in a 70 limit...or have I missed something?
OK, I must have done (probably inaccurate reporting), because these cameras:-a) are called HADECS, as are the gantry-based ones. Implication in the name is HA owns them.
b) HA 'spent' £140m on installing them in whichever location we're talking about (assume SE M25). Again, implying ownership.
So assuming it's not the HA (makes sense on reflection), could you explain how it works - do HA operate on behalf of someone else, did HA just install and in which case who operates, and finally, who sets the trigger point(s) and on behalf of / on instructions from who?
Blakewater said:
Someone on here did receive an NIP for about 95mph on the M5 when the NSL was in force. I can't remember his username now. You can get ticketed for north of 90mph when the NSL is in force. I haven't heard of anyone receiving an NIP for anything in the 80s.
Just because you haven't heard that doesn't mean nobody has. The 70 mph speed limit can be and often is enforced from speeds of 79mph. Read the ACPO guidance carefully, they do not preclude enforcing it at speeds below 79mph but that is a rare event.
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