Road force balance
Discussion
Hi
Anyone had this done? Any good?
Since I've had my 1994 SL I've been trying to eliminate vibration and get a smoother ride.
I've had all the wheels balanced on a normal machine, 2 x alloys straightened new rear shocks. I have noticed some improvement but still have a little vibration throughout the car at motorway speeds. Vibration seems to increase under braking.
The vibration goes away when on a smooth resurfaced road.
I may not be able to iron out the last bits but want to at least try the simple things 1st
Anyone had this done? Any good?
Since I've had my 1994 SL I've been trying to eliminate vibration and get a smoother ride.
I've had all the wheels balanced on a normal machine, 2 x alloys straightened new rear shocks. I have noticed some improvement but still have a little vibration throughout the car at motorway speeds. Vibration seems to increase under braking.
The vibration goes away when on a smooth resurfaced road.
I may not be able to iron out the last bits but want to at least try the simple things 1st
I'm not sure what "road force balance" is, I assume just advanced wheel balancing?
A symptom of wheel balance is velocity dependent steering wheel (front wheels) or whole vehicle vibration (rear wheels).
There are a lot of potential causes for a vibration. Worn engine mounts, tired suspension dampers, old compliance bushing...
Do more investigation before spending £130 on wheel balancing!!
A symptom of wheel balance is velocity dependent steering wheel (front wheels) or whole vehicle vibration (rear wheels).
There are a lot of potential causes for a vibration. Worn engine mounts, tired suspension dampers, old compliance bushing...
Do more investigation before spending £130 on wheel balancing!!
Thanks, I've replaced ARB bushes and had a 4 wheel alignment done and adjusted the wheel bearings. The suspension has been checked with no obvious defects. But is 20yrs old (as far as I know) so is unlikely to be pefect.
I thought it may be worth while trying a "posh" wheel balance before tearing the suspension apart.
I thought it may be worth while trying a "posh" wheel balance before tearing the suspension apart.
Edited by HumbleJim on Thursday 1st May 12:35
Eighteeteewhy said:
kapiteinlangzaam said:
As far as I could tell one of the main advantages of the road force machine is that it could determine if there were any defects either in the tyre or the rim.
Or driveshaft, brake disc...anything that rotates basically.What road force balancing does is this.
In normal balancing the assembled wheel/tyre unit is rotated in free space without the tread being pressed against a road surface. The hub sensor on the balancing machine detects the out-of-balance forces, shows the operator where they are, and he adds weight (or rotates the tyre on the rim) to compensate.
With the road force balancer, the rotation is done with the wheel being pressed against a roller which plays the part of the road surface. Don;t ask me to go into the physics because brains will ooze out of my ears but the benefit is that it's a more accurate simulation of the in-service condition - so if you balance the wheel when it has a service load being applied, it will lead to the smoothest result in a similar service condition, i.e. under load.
I gather that at least part of the difference is that in practice, tyres do not have totally uniform sidewall strength, so tend to flex more or less at certain parts of their rotation. However, I am not an expert in the physics of it. I think it also helps to resolve things like left-right imbalances on the wheels.
My 944 Turbo is very sensitive to wheel balance, and when I had new tyres and refurbed wheels on I tried three different places to get the wheels balanced in the conventional way. Everyone said they'd got it just right and every time I could feel a little shimmy and vibration at some speed or other. The suspension was all new and the suspension geometry had been done to the correct specs. Eventually I took the wheels up to a Hunter road force balancer, they did the job on that machine to the tightest tolerance that the machine will work to, and the car's been terrific ever since at all speeds. So for me it's a no-brainer. I got mine done at Tam Tyres in Gateshead. These days any new tyre I have, I get them to do the balancing on that machine, because it's just easier and less hassle than driving a car with a vibration and having to have a wheel balanced twice.
It was also noticeable that they ended up using a lot less weight than other people, presumably because they were able to put it in *exactly* the right places.
With regard to the previous post, using the Hunter machine the wheels are balanced off the car.
In normal balancing the assembled wheel/tyre unit is rotated in free space without the tread being pressed against a road surface. The hub sensor on the balancing machine detects the out-of-balance forces, shows the operator where they are, and he adds weight (or rotates the tyre on the rim) to compensate.
With the road force balancer, the rotation is done with the wheel being pressed against a roller which plays the part of the road surface. Don;t ask me to go into the physics because brains will ooze out of my ears but the benefit is that it's a more accurate simulation of the in-service condition - so if you balance the wheel when it has a service load being applied, it will lead to the smoothest result in a similar service condition, i.e. under load.
I gather that at least part of the difference is that in practice, tyres do not have totally uniform sidewall strength, so tend to flex more or less at certain parts of their rotation. However, I am not an expert in the physics of it. I think it also helps to resolve things like left-right imbalances on the wheels.
My 944 Turbo is very sensitive to wheel balance, and when I had new tyres and refurbed wheels on I tried three different places to get the wheels balanced in the conventional way. Everyone said they'd got it just right and every time I could feel a little shimmy and vibration at some speed or other. The suspension was all new and the suspension geometry had been done to the correct specs. Eventually I took the wheels up to a Hunter road force balancer, they did the job on that machine to the tightest tolerance that the machine will work to, and the car's been terrific ever since at all speeds. So for me it's a no-brainer. I got mine done at Tam Tyres in Gateshead. These days any new tyre I have, I get them to do the balancing on that machine, because it's just easier and less hassle than driving a car with a vibration and having to have a wheel balanced twice.
It was also noticeable that they ended up using a lot less weight than other people, presumably because they were able to put it in *exactly* the right places.
With regard to the previous post, using the Hunter machine the wheels are balanced off the car.
- And seeing the post after mine, as my new daily driver is an E39 530i with a total suspension rebuild, and knowing that the E39 is also a car well known to be sensitive to wheel balance, it just made total sense to get my new tyres balanced as completely as possible. Why spoil the ship for a ha'p'orth of tar? I can;t remember how much extra it costs, but it's less than the fuel and time involved in getting the job re-done, and of course if you have all new bushes they will stay good for longer if they are not constantly absorbing small out of balance forces.
Edited by Lowtimer on Thursday 1st May 18:13
Lowtimer said:
What road force balancing does is this.
In normal balancing the assembled wheel/tyre unit is rotated in free space without the tread being pressed against a road surface. The hub sensor on the balancing machine detects the out-of-balance forces, shows the operator where they are, and he adds weight (or rotates the tyre on the rim) to compensate.
With the road force balancer, the rotation is done with the wheel being pressed against a roller which plays the part of the road surface. Don;t ask me to go into the physics because brains will ooze out of my ears but the benefit is that it's a more accurate simulation of the in-service condition - so if you balance the wheel when it has a service load being applied, it will lead to the smoothest result in a similar service condition, i.e. under load.
I gather that at least part of the difference is that in practice, tyres do not have totally uniform sidewall strength, so tend to flex more or less at certain parts of their rotation. However, I am not an expert in the physics of it. I think it also helps to resolve things like left-right imbalances on the wheels.
My 944 Turbo is very sensitive to wheel balance, and when I had new tyres and refurbed wheels on I tried three different places to get the wheels balanced in the conventional way. Everyone said they'd got it just right and every time I could feel a little shimmy and vibration at some speed or other. The suspension was all new and the suspension geometry had been done to the correct specs. Eventually I took the wheels up to a Hunter road force balancer, they did the job on that machine to the tightest tolerance that the machine will work to, and the car's been terrific ever since at all speeds. So for me it's a no-brainer. I got mine done at Tam Tyres in Gateshead. These days any new tyre I have, I get them to do the balancing on that machine, because it's just easier and less hassle than driving a car with a vibration and having to have a wheel balanced twice.
It was also noticeable that they ended up using a lot less weight than other people, presumably because they were able to put it in *exactly* the right places.
With regard to the previous post, using the Hunter machine the wheels are balanced off the car.
Lowtimer - Thank you for your explanation of this process. I had not been aware of or understood its meaning / content until I read your post.In normal balancing the assembled wheel/tyre unit is rotated in free space without the tread being pressed against a road surface. The hub sensor on the balancing machine detects the out-of-balance forces, shows the operator where they are, and he adds weight (or rotates the tyre on the rim) to compensate.
With the road force balancer, the rotation is done with the wheel being pressed against a roller which plays the part of the road surface. Don;t ask me to go into the physics because brains will ooze out of my ears but the benefit is that it's a more accurate simulation of the in-service condition - so if you balance the wheel when it has a service load being applied, it will lead to the smoothest result in a similar service condition, i.e. under load.
I gather that at least part of the difference is that in practice, tyres do not have totally uniform sidewall strength, so tend to flex more or less at certain parts of their rotation. However, I am not an expert in the physics of it. I think it also helps to resolve things like left-right imbalances on the wheels.
My 944 Turbo is very sensitive to wheel balance, and when I had new tyres and refurbed wheels on I tried three different places to get the wheels balanced in the conventional way. Everyone said they'd got it just right and every time I could feel a little shimmy and vibration at some speed or other. The suspension was all new and the suspension geometry had been done to the correct specs. Eventually I took the wheels up to a Hunter road force balancer, they did the job on that machine to the tightest tolerance that the machine will work to, and the car's been terrific ever since at all speeds. So for me it's a no-brainer. I got mine done at Tam Tyres in Gateshead. These days any new tyre I have, I get them to do the balancing on that machine, because it's just easier and less hassle than driving a car with a vibration and having to have a wheel balanced twice.
It was also noticeable that they ended up using a lot less weight than other people, presumably because they were able to put it in *exactly* the right places.
With regard to the previous post, using the Hunter machine the wheels are balanced off the car.
- And seeing the post after mine, as my new daily driver is an E39 530i with a total suspension rebuild, and knowing that the E39 is also a car well known to be sensitive to wheel balance, it just made total sense to get my new tyres balanced as completely as possible. Why spoil the ship for a ha'p'orth of tar? I can;t remember how much extra it costs, but it's less than the fuel and time involved in getting the job re-done, and of course if you have all new bushes they will stay good for longer if they are not constantly absorbing small out of balance forces.
Edited by Lowtimer on Thursday 1st May 18:13
kapiteinlangzaam said:
HumbleJim said:
Hi
Anyone had this done? Any good?
Since I've had my 1994 SL I've been trying to eliminate vibration and get a smoother ride.
I've had all the wheels balanced on a normal machine, 2 x alloys straightened new rear shocks. I have noticed some improvement but still have a little vibration throughout the car at motorway speeds. Vibration seems to increase under braking.
The vibration goes away when on a smooth resurfaced road.
I may not be able to iron out the last bits but want to at least try the simple things 1st
Its something I have been thinking about for my Alfa, would be interested to read opinions also.... at €120-160 its not cheap!Anyone had this done? Any good?
Since I've had my 1994 SL I've been trying to eliminate vibration and get a smoother ride.
I've had all the wheels balanced on a normal machine, 2 x alloys straightened new rear shocks. I have noticed some improvement but still have a little vibration throughout the car at motorway speeds. Vibration seems to increase under braking.
The vibration goes away when on a smooth resurfaced road.
I may not be able to iron out the last bits but want to at least try the simple things 1st
. I think new tyres would help some more but that can wait.Pan Pan said:
Lowtimer said:
What road force balancing does is this.
In normal balancing the assembled wheel/tyre unit is rotated in free space without the tread being pressed against a road surface. The hub sensor on the balancing machine detects the out-of-balance forces, shows the operator where they are, and he adds weight (or rotates the tyre on the rim) to compensate.
With the road force balancer, the rotation is done with the wheel being pressed against a roller which plays the part of the road surface. Don;t ask me to go into the physics because brains will ooze out of my ears but the benefit is that it's a more accurate simulation of the in-service condition - so if you balance the wheel when it has a service load being applied, it will lead to the smoothest result in a similar service condition, i.e. under load.
I gather that at least part of the difference is that in practice, tyres do not have totally uniform sidewall strength, so tend to flex more or less at certain parts of their rotation. However, I am not an expert in the physics of it. I think it also helps to resolve things like left-right imbalances on the wheels.
My 944 Turbo is very sensitive to wheel balance, and when I had new tyres and refurbed wheels on I tried three different places to get the wheels balanced in the conventional way. Everyone said they'd got it just right and every time I could feel a little shimmy and vibration at some speed or other. The suspension was all new and the suspension geometry had been done to the correct specs. Eventually I took the wheels up to a Hunter road force balancer, they did the job on that machine to the tightest tolerance that the machine will work to, and the car's been terrific ever since at all speeds. So for me it's a no-brainer. I got mine done at Tam Tyres in Gateshead. These days any new tyre I have, I get them to do the balancing on that machine, because it's just easier and less hassle than driving a car with a vibration and having to have a wheel balanced twice.
It was also noticeable that they ended up using a lot less weight than other people, presumably because they were able to put it in *exactly* the right places.
With regard to the previous post, using the Hunter machine the wheels are balanced off the car.
Lowtimer - Thank you for your explanation of this process. I had not been aware of or understood its meaning / content until I read your post.In normal balancing the assembled wheel/tyre unit is rotated in free space without the tread being pressed against a road surface. The hub sensor on the balancing machine detects the out-of-balance forces, shows the operator where they are, and he adds weight (or rotates the tyre on the rim) to compensate.
With the road force balancer, the rotation is done with the wheel being pressed against a roller which plays the part of the road surface. Don;t ask me to go into the physics because brains will ooze out of my ears but the benefit is that it's a more accurate simulation of the in-service condition - so if you balance the wheel when it has a service load being applied, it will lead to the smoothest result in a similar service condition, i.e. under load.
I gather that at least part of the difference is that in practice, tyres do not have totally uniform sidewall strength, so tend to flex more or less at certain parts of their rotation. However, I am not an expert in the physics of it. I think it also helps to resolve things like left-right imbalances on the wheels.
My 944 Turbo is very sensitive to wheel balance, and when I had new tyres and refurbed wheels on I tried three different places to get the wheels balanced in the conventional way. Everyone said they'd got it just right and every time I could feel a little shimmy and vibration at some speed or other. The suspension was all new and the suspension geometry had been done to the correct specs. Eventually I took the wheels up to a Hunter road force balancer, they did the job on that machine to the tightest tolerance that the machine will work to, and the car's been terrific ever since at all speeds. So for me it's a no-brainer. I got mine done at Tam Tyres in Gateshead. These days any new tyre I have, I get them to do the balancing on that machine, because it's just easier and less hassle than driving a car with a vibration and having to have a wheel balanced twice.
It was also noticeable that they ended up using a lot less weight than other people, presumably because they were able to put it in *exactly* the right places.
With regard to the previous post, using the Hunter machine the wheels are balanced off the car.
- And seeing the post after mine, as my new daily driver is an E39 530i with a total suspension rebuild, and knowing that the E39 is also a car well known to be sensitive to wheel balance, it just made total sense to get my new tyres balanced as completely as possible. Why spoil the ship for a ha'p'orth of tar? I can;t remember how much extra it costs, but it's less than the fuel and time involved in getting the job re-done, and of course if you have all new bushes they will stay good for longer if they are not constantly absorbing small out of balance forces.
Edited by Lowtimer on Thursday 1st May 18:13
Once done ask the fitter to mark the remaining high spot on the wheel and tyre combination or mark the spots permanently on the wheels yourself. Loosen the wheel nuts slightly, raise the wheel off the ground and rotate it so the high spot is at the bottom. Lower the wheel back to the ground and then tighten the nuts. This locates the wheel on the hub in the optimum position and reduces the effect of the remaining high spot even further.
Mine cost £60 to have a set of 4 done Worth every penny IMO
Pan Pan said:
Lowtimer said:
What road force balancing does is this.
In normal balancing the assembled wheel/tyre unit is rotated in free space without the tread being pressed against a road surface. The hub sensor on the balancing machine detects the out-of-balance forces, shows the operator where they are, and he adds weight (or rotates the tyre on the rim) to compensate.
With the road force balancer, the rotation is done with the wheel being pressed against a roller which plays the part of the road surface. Don;t ask me to go into the physics because brains will ooze out of my ears but the benefit is that it's a more accurate simulation of the in-service condition - so if you balance the wheel when it has a service load being applied, it will lead to the smoothest result in a similar service condition, i.e. under load.
I gather that at least part of the difference is that in practice, tyres do not have totally uniform sidewall strength, so tend to flex more or less at certain parts of their rotation. However, I am not an expert in the physics of it. I think it also helps to resolve things like left-right imbalances on the wheels.
My 944 Turbo is very sensitive to wheel balance, and when I had new tyres and refurbed wheels on I tried three different places to get the wheels balanced in the conventional way. Everyone said they'd got it just right and every time I could feel a little shimmy and vibration at some speed or other. The suspension was all new and the suspension geometry had been done to the correct specs. Eventually I took the wheels up to a Hunter road force balancer, they did the job on that machine to the tightest tolerance that the machine will work to, and the car's been terrific ever since at all speeds. So for me it's a no-brainer. I got mine done at Tam Tyres in Gateshead. These days any new tyre I have, I get them to do the balancing on that machine, because it's just easier and less hassle than driving a car with a vibration and having to have a wheel balanced twice.
It was also noticeable that they ended up using a lot less weight than other people, presumably because they were able to put it in *exactly* the right places.
With regard to the previous post, using the Hunter machine the wheels are balanced off the car.
Lowtimer - Thank you for your explanation of this process. I had not been aware of or understood its meaning / content until I read your post.In normal balancing the assembled wheel/tyre unit is rotated in free space without the tread being pressed against a road surface. The hub sensor on the balancing machine detects the out-of-balance forces, shows the operator where they are, and he adds weight (or rotates the tyre on the rim) to compensate.
With the road force balancer, the rotation is done with the wheel being pressed against a roller which plays the part of the road surface. Don;t ask me to go into the physics because brains will ooze out of my ears but the benefit is that it's a more accurate simulation of the in-service condition - so if you balance the wheel when it has a service load being applied, it will lead to the smoothest result in a similar service condition, i.e. under load.
I gather that at least part of the difference is that in practice, tyres do not have totally uniform sidewall strength, so tend to flex more or less at certain parts of their rotation. However, I am not an expert in the physics of it. I think it also helps to resolve things like left-right imbalances on the wheels.
My 944 Turbo is very sensitive to wheel balance, and when I had new tyres and refurbed wheels on I tried three different places to get the wheels balanced in the conventional way. Everyone said they'd got it just right and every time I could feel a little shimmy and vibration at some speed or other. The suspension was all new and the suspension geometry had been done to the correct specs. Eventually I took the wheels up to a Hunter road force balancer, they did the job on that machine to the tightest tolerance that the machine will work to, and the car's been terrific ever since at all speeds. So for me it's a no-brainer. I got mine done at Tam Tyres in Gateshead. These days any new tyre I have, I get them to do the balancing on that machine, because it's just easier and less hassle than driving a car with a vibration and having to have a wheel balanced twice.
It was also noticeable that they ended up using a lot less weight than other people, presumably because they were able to put it in *exactly* the right places.
With regard to the previous post, using the Hunter machine the wheels are balanced off the car.
- And seeing the post after mine, as my new daily driver is an E39 530i with a total suspension rebuild, and knowing that the E39 is also a car well known to be sensitive to wheel balance, it just made total sense to get my new tyres balanced as completely as possible. Why spoil the ship for a ha'p'orth of tar? I can;t remember how much extra it costs, but it's less than the fuel and time involved in getting the job re-done, and of course if you have all new bushes they will stay good for longer if they are not constantly absorbing small out of balance forces.
Edited by Lowtimer on Thursday 1st May 18:13
Once done ask the fitter to mark the remaining high spot on the wheel and tyre combination or mark the spots permanently on the wheels yourself. Loosen the wheel nuts slightly, raise the wheel off the ground and rotate it so the high spot is at the bottom. Lower the wheel back to the ground and then tighten the nuts. This locates the wheel on the hub in the optimum position and reduces the effect of the remaining high spot even further.
Mine cost £60 to have a set of 4 done Worth every penny IMO
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