Bought a used car thats not the variant advertised

[drew.h]

I just bought a cheep runaround for £700. I had it transported yesterday to save time. The eBay listing said it was a Saab 2.0t HOT. i.e., HOT as in High Output Turbo. The listing also stated the BHP was 205 (none HOT being 185). On checking the engine code it is not the HOT.

Unfortunately the sale was 'off the books'.

What are the chances of getting my money back legally? What about out of pocket fees such as transportation and insurance cancellation fee?

[Crafty_]

For a "cheap runabout" at £700 does it really matter?

[egor110]

If the sale was 'off the books' surely the seller will just deny it ever happened especially if his isn't the last name in the log book?

[Vaud]

drew.h said:

Unfortunately the sale was 'off the books'.

How do you mean? Was it a trader passing on a trade in and claiming it was a private sale?

Anyhow, for £700, I wouldn't worry too much, if the car is sound (as you are in shed territory) then I'd keep it and ask him for the admin fee back when you correct your insurance - though that probably won't be necessary as the spec is done as a look up for most insurers. IIRC the lower power model is more reliable, but Saabcentral would give a definitive view.

[drew.h]

Crafty_ said:

For a "cheap runabout" at £700 does it really matter?

Well, in truth I was willing to risk spending £700 on a car I didn't test first. But it should.

egor110 said:

If the sale was 'off the books' surely the seller will just deny it ever happened especially if his isn't the last name in the log book?

His name is filled in on the log book on the dealers section and money was bank transfer not cash. Lots of eMails regarding sale and I had it collected by a reputable car transporter.

Vaud said:

drew.h said:

Unfortunately the sale was 'off the books'.

How do you mean? Was it a trader passing on a trade in and claiming it was a private sale?

Yes. So he didn't pay VAT.

It has some issues, but I believe is down to lack of servicing, no knocks, bangs, smoke or warning lights, just running rough. Its not seen new oil in a long time. Slightly worried it may be a time and money pit.

[egor110]

So not off the books in any way then.

[TooMany2cvs]

drew.h said:

I just bought a cheep runaround for £700. I had it transported yesterday to save time. The eBay listing said it was a Saab 2.0t HOT. i.e., HOT as in High Output Turbo. The listing also stated the BHP was 205 (none HOT being 185). On checking the engine code it is not the HOT.

So you bought it unseen, and you've found out something that you could quickly and easily have noticed when you inspected it before purchase?

drew.h said:

Unfortunately the sale was 'off the books'.

What are the chances of getting my money back legally? What about out of pocket fees such as transportation and insurance cancellation fee?

<chuckles>

[Motorrad]

Have you asked the vendor nicely to take the vehicle back as it wasn't as described?

[Vaud]

drew.h said:

Slightly worried it may be a time and money pit.

As could any £700 car that originally cost £25k+. Or indeed any car at £700.

Technically, from what you have posted, you have lots of recourse. In reality - it may be an uphill battle.

Options:
1) Push for returning the car. Assuming trader rather then dealer, any escalation from a polite chat is likely to be a 3-4 month job and require legal intervention, which even if successful, is dependent on him having assets to recover from. Winning a small claims court, etc, is a long step away from recovering money.
2) Keep the car, do a home service, and see how it goes. Worst case is scrap value after some use.
3) Spend more money (bear with me) having it serviced (even at home) and valeted, sell it on via ebay or PH. You might get £700-£800 back.

[egor110]

You have to accept a £700 car is pretty much a gamble, your not going to get a perfect car.

If your not willing to say loose half the £700 i'd not even entertain the idea, it's like a bet some cars are st others are fine but you have accept your spending pocket money amounts of money.

[drew.h]

TooMany2cvs said:

So you bought it unseen, and you've found out something that you could quickly and easily have noticed when you inspected it before purchase?

Something I only found out while double checking the bits I need for a service and looked up the engine variant from the VIN number. Only difference between the cars is the turbo (as far as I'm aware) and I'm not a turbo expert, not that the turbo is easy to see without ramps anyway.

[surveyor]

If it's not seen oil for a long time budget for a sump drop and clean, especially if it's the LPT.

[markmullen]

surveyor said:

If it's not seen oil for a long time budget for a sump drop and clean, especially if it's the LPT.

It's a £700 snotter, check it has some oil, run it till it breaks (some time between soon and ages depending on how lucky the OP is) and when it does part it out or bob it on the bay of fleas as spares or repair and get a fresh one. I don't see any point in preventative maintenance on a car which is that way through its lifespan.

[drew.h]

The idea with this car was something to last while I sold the TVR, Blackbird and my compensation came through, then I'll look at something newer . I'll see if I can get anything back off the seller (e.g., the insurance admin fee for model change) and a DIY service.

I thought I was getting the HOT variant and fancied having a go at DIY re-mapping, but I'll not bother now.

[TooMany2cvs]

drew.h said:

TooMany2cvs said:

So you bought it unseen, and you've found out something that you could quickly and easily have noticed when you inspected it before purchase?

Something I only found out while double checking the bits I need for a service and looked up the engine variant from the VIN number.

Indeed. A quick two-second check of the engine number would, if you were prepared, have told you what you wanted to know. The VIN will tell you what it left the factory with, but at this remove - and with the 9-5's well-known sludge problems - that doesn't mean it's what's fitted now.

So - let's say that you did go to inspect it, prepared, and found that it wasn't the B235R. Would you have then walked away?

I'm just trying to dredge the depths of my Saab anoraksia, here - wasn't the B235R HOT only fitted to the Aero? And the Aero only had the B235R? If so, then a quick glance at the car would have told you whether it was an Aero or not.

Edited by TooMany2cvs on Monday 12th May 09:25

[over_the_hill]

markmullen said:

surveyor said:

If it's not seen oil for a long time budget for a sump drop and clean, especially if it's the LPT.

It's a £700 snotter, check it has some oil, run it till it breaks (some time between soon and ages depending on how lucky the OP is) and when it does part it out or bob it on the bay of fleas as spares or repair and get a fresh one. I don't see any point in preventative maintenance on a car which is that way through its lifespan.

This.

It's probably worth £200 scrap - more with combined breaking and scrap so the maximum loss is £500.
If it only lasts six months before going bang that's still only £20 per-week - hardly much in car depreciation terms.
(Most PH'er director types probably spend more than that on cans of Red Bull every week)

[surveyor]

over_the_hill said:

markmullen said:

surveyor said:

If it's not seen oil for a long time budget for a sump drop and clean, especially if it's the LPT.

It's a £700 snotter, check it has some oil, run it till it breaks (some time between soon and ages depending on how lucky the OP is) and when it does part it out or bob it on the bay of fleas as spares or repair and get a fresh one. I don't see any point in preventative maintenance on a car which is that way through its lifespan.

This.

It's probably worth £200 scrap - more with combined breaking and scrap so the maximum loss is £500.
If it only lasts six months before going bang that's still only £20 per-week - hardly much in car depreciation terms.
(Most PH'er director types probably spend more than that on cans of Red Bull every week)

Up to OP. But I say this because these car's will run forever - unless sludge is picked up which is a known issue with the LPT. It's DIY'ble at home.

[jbsportstech]

Carry out a check of the reg you can get an app for most smart phones that will give that info.

Chalk it down to experience.

[V8forweekends]

drew.h said:

Slightly worried it may be a time and money pit.

It's a £700 Saab

[Vaud]

hora said:

OP I'm reading between the lines but your looking for some sort of get out clause to get out of a car that you now think might be abit of a pup?.........

To be fair to the OP, misrepresenting a model by an engine type and at least 30hp is a reasonable get out clause...