Roundabouts Part 1 - Using the Roadcraft System

Roundabouts Part 1 - Using the Roadcraft System

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R_U_LOCAL

Original Poster:

2,676 posts

207 months

Monday 26th May 2014
quotequote all
Roundabouts are easy aren't they?

Give way to traffic approaching from the right.

There you go. Easy. Pass me another beer.

But hang on a minute. I've seen at least three threads on Pistonheads in the last few weeks which showed that qualified drivers of various levels of experience were unsure as to whether their actions at various roundabouts were correct or not.

One involved a driver turning left at a roundabout from a right-hand lane approach, one involved the legality (or otherwise) of completing a full circuit of a roundabout to make progress, and the most recent was a driver who had experienced an aggressive reaction from a following driver when she gave priority to a vehicle approaching from the left on a mini roundabout.

I know that to most drivers a roundabout is just a roundabout, but there is a lot more to it than that. Single lane roundabouts, multiple lane roundabouts, mini roundabouts, throughabouts, magic roundabouts, hamburger roundabouts, dogbone roundabouts and my current favourite (which surely must have at least been named by a PHer) - turbo roundabouts (yes, really!). There's a lot to consider, so I thought I'd go all traditional and start with a good, old fashioned systematic Roadcraft approach to a nice, straightforward four exit single-lane roundabout.

I'm tackling roundabouts in two parts. Part 1 is based on a well used lecture I used to give to standard and advanced police students on the first or second day of their course, before we'd actually been out on the road. Part 2 will be more of a narrative discussion about the practicalities of different roundabout types.

As I've mentioned in previous posts, you may or may not agree with all or part of the Roadcraft system, but please feel free to take whatever you like and leave whatever you don't like. The usual disclaimer about this being appropriate for any level of experience applies, so please don't assume I'm being patronising.

Roadcraft system and a four exit roundabout

By way of an introduction, let's remind ourselves of the five phases of the Roadcraft system of car control - mainly to assist any readers who are not familiar with systematic driving.



Information

Let's start at the beginning with the information phase. What do we mean by "information"? It's a bit vague when it's just reduced to the single word, so let's explore the information phase in more detail. Firstly, you'll notice that the information phase starts before all the others and runs throughout all the other four phases. It's depicted in the above diagram as a sort of pink "bubble" inside which the other phases appear in a definite order.

So, information - what do we do with it? Well, we give it a TUG.

By which, of course, I mean we Take, Use and Give information at all times, throughout the negotiation of the roundabout wherever appropriate.

Take information by continually scanning, from the horizon, back to the mid distance, the foreground, the sides and the rear.

Use the information you've taken in to formulate a plan as to how you're going to negotiate the roundabout.

Give information to other road users with a signal where appropriate.

So, we're driving along, tugging our information, and we start to pick up some visual clues that we're approaching a roundabout. If you're scanning correctly, you might pick up the movement of vehicles towards your road, in the distance - this is at least a clue that there is a junction of some sort ahead. You might see a clump of street lights too before you actually pick up any sight of the roundabout itself.

As you get closer to the roundabout, you'll see a direction sign with all,the information you need to start forming your plan for the roundabout itself. Here's an example for the roundabout we're approaching (there is no significance of this particular roundabout - it was just the first hit on google images).



So, from this, we know we're on a secondary (B) road, because the sign is white. We know that there are three exits plus the road we're on. We know that the first exit, at 9 o'clock, will take us to Torbreck and Essich. We know that the second exit, at 12 o'clock, will take us to Holm and via an additional junction, to Dores. Finally, we know that the third exit, at 3 o'clock, will take us to Lochardil.

It took me a few minutes to write that, but in reality, it should only take you a second or so to look at the sign, identify your destination and pick your exit.

Position

Many roundabouts split to two lanes on approach. If the lanes are arrow-marked, then the choice of lane is made for you, but the majority are not lane marked, so what should your position be on approach to the roundabout?

Left is easy. Go in the left lane.

Right is also easy in this case. Go in the right lane. Piece of cake.

Straight on? Well, either lane is ok, depending on the circumstances. If traffic is light, approaching in the left lane will allow you to take the straightest line through the roundabout. If there is a line of traffic turning left, then straight on from the right lane is perfectly acceptable.

That's all nice and easy with a four exit roundabout, but what about something a bit more complicated? Like this...



I have a basic rule of thumb for lane selection on the approach to roundabouts. If my exit is between 6 o'clock and 12 o'clock, treat it as a left turn and use the left lane. If it's between 12 o'clock and 6 o'clock, treat is as a right turn and use the right lane.

Signals? Well, the information phase runs throughout the system, so you can stick a signal on at any appropriate time. For a first-exit-left, I'd give a left signal on approach, but in the above pic, if I were going second-exit-left to Tapton Lock, I'd approach in the left lane without signalling, and then stick on a left "breakaway" signal immediately after passing the Sheffield A61 exit. More on breakaway signals shortly.

For any exit past 12 o'clock, I would generally give a right signal on approach.

Straight on does not require a signal on approach. This seems to be a difficult concept for some people to grasp, but most cars are not fitted with a straight-on indicator, and left or right signals can be very confusing to other road users if you're going straight on, so please - no signal on approach if your intention is to go straight on.

Speed

The speed phase is next, but there isn't a definite separation between the position phase and the speed phase - they overlap in the diagram because they can overlap on the road. Position is considered before speed and any change in position generally comes before the speed is changed, but there is no problem in braking whilst altering your position on approach to the roundabout.

But how do you select the appropriate speed?

An old instructor colleague of mine came up with "the three Vs".

1. The Vehicles on and approaching the roundabout.

2. The View on the approach to the roundabout, and...

Any guesses?

The third "V"?

No? Ok then...

3. The curVe of the roundabout.

Sorry - I did say it wasn't originally one of mine, but it's a nice little line to include in commentary if that's your thing.

So, your speed on approach is governed by the vehicles, the view and the curve, and the other overriding phrase to consider is...

Planning to stop, but looking to go.

In other words, your plan when approaching a roundabout should always include the option of stopping at the give way line if traffic is busy. But at the same time, you should be looking carefully at the traffic on the roundabout, and at the traffic approaching the roundabout (from all directions), in order to spot an appropriate gap in the traffic that you can pull in to without having to stop.

Looking right nice and early on approach should allow you to see what is or isn't approaching and whether you're likely to have to stop. A long line of traffic approaching from the right doesn't necessarily mean you'll have to stop though. Look straight ahead as well - look for traffic travelling straight towards you which will exit on to the road on which you are approaching. These vehicles will prevent the traffic approaching from the right from entering the roundabout and allow you to continue.

Our term for these oncoming vehicles was a twelve o'clock block.

So, to summarise on speed selection for the roundabout...

Your speed is dictated by the three Vs - the vehicles, the view and the curve, you should be planning to stop but looking to go and keeping an eye out for a twelve o'clock block.

Gear

Getting your speed correct will generally involve deceleration and / or braking, and you should aim to have your speed correct, and to have come off the brakes with enough time to select the appropriate gear for the roundabout.

There's no secret here. Just whatever gear is the most appropriate and flexible. Preferably - but not always necessarily - one which will get you on to, round and off the roundabout without taking another gear.

Aim to have your gear selected and the clutch re-engaged before you cross the give way line and enter the roundabout.

Acceleration

The last phase is acceleration - "the correct amount of safe, smooth acceleration to negotiate and leave the roundabout".

Not a particularly difficult one this. As much acceleration as is appropriate. Less when it's wet, more when it's dry, less when it's busy, more when it's quiet, less when you're drunk, more when you're sober.

I'm joking of course. More acceleration is better when you're drunk because you'll be home sooner and there will therefore be less risk to other road users. (A drunk driver did actually use this excuse once with me!).

Breakaway signals

I mentioned breakaway signals briefly earlier in the post. A breakaway signal is a left signal to confirm which exit you intend to use to leave the roundabout.

Give a breakaway signal just as you pass the exit immediately before the one you intend to use. It helps following traffic and it helps those approaching from other exits. I find that the "three flash" program built into many modern indicators is usually sufficient for a breakaway signal.

So there you go. System applied to a simple roundabout. In part 2 I'll look at more complicated roundabouts, different types of roundabouts, and how to make progress where appropriate.

vonhosen

40,198 posts

216 months

Monday 26th May 2014
quotequote all
Or give way to traffic from the right already circulating the roundabout (as opposed to merely approaching it from the right).

The wording is dependent on the type of markings at the roundabout.

I say that as a word of caution for those that approach roundabouts with the belief that as long as they are approaching the roundabout from the right they have priority on it.
A more defensive mindset is to not only give way to traffic approaching the roundabout from the right (that you would cause to potentially alter course/speed to avoid a collision), but also that any traffic that enters the roundabout ahead of & before you has priority over you.

7db

6,058 posts

229 months

Monday 26th May 2014
quotequote all
As I recall the priority rules on mini-roundabouts are written a little differently to standard roundabouts and might or might not come with a giveway line. Some of them have a sprinkling of "do not endanger any other road user" thrown on top. Try crossing an exit of my local roundabout as a pedestrian and see how far you get.

In any case, as Von points out, traffic established on the roundabout is going to have priority and that *usually* means to the right given the usual course of things, but with higher relative speeds that's not so obvious. Best to follow Dave's roundabout mantra number one and avoid going round with everyone else altogether.

In my experience, they can come from pretty much everywhere -- and they usually do.

R_U_LOCAL said:
If traffic is light, approaching in the left lane will allow you to take the straightest line through the roundabout.
An observation. If you are going to be naughty, then an offside approach allows you to turn a left-right-left into a right-left. Or possible just a right. It's not so much the straightness that determines stability as the number of times the car needs to transition and settle.

standards

1,117 posts

217 months

Monday 26th May 2014
quotequote all
Thanks for that Reg-especially the 3 Vs.
Very clear. To me anyway.

R_U_LOCAL

Original Poster:

2,676 posts

207 months

Monday 26th May 2014
quotequote all
7db said:
An observation. If you are going to be naughty, then an offside approach allows you to turn a left-right-left into a right-left. Or possible just a right. It's not so much the straightness that determines stability as the number of times the car needs to transition and settle.
I did only touch on this very briefly. Keep an eye out for part 2 where I'll look in more detail at making progress on the approach to, and through roundabouts.

Debaser

5,665 posts

260 months

Thursday 29th May 2014
quotequote all
Hello R U LOCAL / vonhosen

I posted this in the aggressive driving thread and wondered what your thoughts are.

Debaser said:
R_U_LOCAL said:
OP, keep an eye on the advanced driving forum over the next few days. There have been a couple of posts on PH recently which have raised questions about roundabouts, so I'll be posting up a piece on roundabouts in general at some time over the weekend. I'll include a section on mini roundabouts which may clear up any misunderstandings.
I'd be interested to know if (in the above Google link) a car entered the roundabout from the left before the silver Puma entered the roundabout, who would have priority? Should a car from the left treat it like a regular T junction and give way to anyone approaching from where the Puma is, regardless of whether the Puma has crossed the give way line onto the roundabout or not?

A bit like this (except the camera is on a bicycle).
https://vine.co/v/bPmWF7vBbAW
This is the Google link..
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.40785,-0.0807,3a...

R_U_LOCAL

Original Poster:

2,676 posts

207 months

Thursday 29th May 2014
quotequote all
Debaser said:
Hello R U LOCAL / vonhosen

I posted this in the aggressive driving thread and wondered what your thoughts are.

Debaser said:
R_U_LOCAL said:
OP, keep an eye on the advanced driving forum over the next few days. There have been a couple of posts on PH recently which have raised questions about roundabouts, so I'll be posting up a piece on roundabouts in general at some time over the weekend. I'll include a section on mini roundabouts which may clear up any misunderstandings.
I'd be interested to know if (in the above Google link) a car entered the roundabout from the left before the silver Puma entered the roundabout, who would have priority? Should a car from the left treat it like a regular T junction and give way to anyone approaching from where the Puma is, regardless of whether the Puma has crossed the give way line onto the roundabout or not?

A bit like this (except the camera is on a bicycle).
https://vine.co/v/bPmWF7vBbAW
This is the Google link..
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.40785,-0.0807,3a...
Let's have a look at rule 185 of the Highway Code for starters, which deals with entering roundabouts. I've highlighted the two sections relevant to your question in bold...

Rule 185 of the Highway Code said:
When reaching the roundabout you should:

Give priority to traffic approaching from your right, unless directed otherwise by signs, road markings or traffic lights

Check whether road markings allow you to enter the roundabout without giving way. If so, proceed, but still look to the right before joining.

Watch out for all other road users already on the roundabout; be aware they may not be signalling correctly or at all

Look forward before moving off to make sure traffic in front has moved off.
So the first part in bold makes it clear that a car approaching the roundabout from the left should give way to the silver Puma - in exactly the same way as it would be expected to do at a give way marked "T" junction.

The second part in bold basically says that if someone is daft enough to pull out without correctly giving way, then you should allow them priority.

This is the basic rule of non-involvement. If someone else is driving badly, make sure you do not involve yourself in their accident.

Or to put it another way, there is little consolation in lying in a hospital bed, thinking "at least I was in the right."


vonhosen

40,198 posts

216 months

Thursday 29th May 2014
quotequote all
Debaser said:
Hello R U LOCAL / vonhosen

I posted this in the aggressive driving thread and wondered what your thoughts are.

Debaser said:
R_U_LOCAL said:
OP, keep an eye on the advanced driving forum over the next few days. There have been a couple of posts on PH recently which have raised questions about roundabouts, so I'll be posting up a piece on roundabouts in general at some time over the weekend. I'll include a section on mini roundabouts which may clear up any misunderstandings.
I'd be interested to know if (in the above Google link) a car entered the roundabout from the left before the silver Puma entered the roundabout, who would have priority? Should a car from the left treat it like a regular T junction and give way to anyone approaching from where the Puma is, regardless of whether the Puma has crossed the give way line onto the roundabout or not?

A bit like this (except the camera is on a bicycle).
https://vine.co/v/bPmWF7vBbAW
This is the Google link..
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.40785,-0.0807,3a...
Reg 25(5) of The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002 apply to the markings in the photo.

Reg 25 TSRGD 2002 said:
(5) Where the transverse lines are placed in conjunction with the sign shown in diagram 611.1 at a junction marked with the road marking shown in diagram 1003.4, then the requirement shall be that no vehicle shall proceed past such one of those lines as is nearer to the road marking shown in diagram 1003.4 in a manner or at a time likely to endanger the driver of or any passenger in a vehicle circulating past that road marking from the right of the first-mentioned vehicle or to cause the driver of the second-mentioned vehicle to change its speed or course in order to avoid an accident.
Diagram 1003 is the Give way markings present.
Diagram 1003.4 is the roundabout road marking present.
Diagram 611.1 is the Mini roundabout sign present.

Edited by vonhosen on Thursday 29th May 22:11

Debaser

5,665 posts

260 months

Thursday 29th May 2014
quotequote all
R_U_LOCAL said:
Debaser said:
Hello R U LOCAL / vonhosen

I posted this in the aggressive driving thread and wondered what your thoughts are.

Debaser said:
R_U_LOCAL said:
OP, keep an eye on the advanced driving forum over the next few days. There have been a couple of posts on PH recently which have raised questions about roundabouts, so I'll be posting up a piece on roundabouts in general at some time over the weekend. I'll include a section on mini roundabouts which may clear up any misunderstandings.
I'd be interested to know if (in the above Google link) a car entered the roundabout from the left before the silver Puma entered the roundabout, who would have priority? Should a car from the left treat it like a regular T junction and give way to anyone approaching from where the Puma is, regardless of whether the Puma has crossed the give way line onto the roundabout or not?

A bit like this (except the camera is on a bicycle).
https://vine.co/v/bPmWF7vBbAW
This is the Google link..
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.40785,-0.0807,3a...
Let's have a look at rule 185 of the Highway Code for starters, which deals with entering roundabouts. I've highlighted the two sections relevant to your question in bold...

Rule 185 of the Highway Code said:
When reaching the roundabout you should:

Give priority to traffic approaching from your right, unless directed otherwise by signs, road markings or traffic lights

Check whether road markings allow you to enter the roundabout without giving way. If so, proceed, but still look to the right before joining.

Watch out for all other road users already on the roundabout; be aware they may not be signalling correctly or at all

Look forward before moving off to make sure traffic in front has moved off.
So the first part in bold makes it clear that a car approaching the roundabout from the left should give way to the silver Puma - in exactly the same way as it would be expected to do at a give way marked "T" junction.

The second part in bold basically says that if someone is daft enough to pull out without correctly giving way, then you should allow them priority.

This is the basic rule of non-involvement. If someone else is driving badly, make sure you do not involve yourself in their accident.

Or to put it another way, there is little consolation in lying in a hospital bed, thinking "at least I was in the right."
Thank you. So someone approaching from the left should expect to give way to the silver Puma, and shouldn't be concerned about whether the Puma was yet to enter the roundabout?

I'm just curious about the technicalities - in the real world I wouldn't pull out in front of someone if I thought there was the risk of an accident!

R_U_LOCAL

Original Poster:

2,676 posts

207 months

Thursday 29th May 2014
quotequote all
Debaser said:
Thank you. So someone approaching from the left should expect to give way to the silver Puma, and shouldn't be concerned about whether the Puma was yet to enter the roundabout?
In a word...

Yes.

vonhosen

40,198 posts

216 months

Thursday 29th May 2014
quotequote all
I disagree 'in law'.

See 25(5) above. It gives you the strict legal liabilities in relation to the markings present.


In the real world all should be looking out for each other.

Debaser

5,665 posts

260 months

Thursday 29th May 2014
quotequote all
vonhosen said:
Debaser said:
Hello R U LOCAL / vonhosen

I posted this in the aggressive driving thread and wondered what your thoughts are.

Debaser said:
R_U_LOCAL said:
OP, keep an eye on the advanced driving forum over the next few days. There have been a couple of posts on PH recently which have raised questions about roundabouts, so I'll be posting up a piece on roundabouts in general at some time over the weekend. I'll include a section on mini roundabouts which may clear up any misunderstandings.
I'd be interested to know if (in the above Google link) a car entered the roundabout from the left before the silver Puma entered the roundabout, who would have priority? Should a car from the left treat it like a regular T junction and give way to anyone approaching from where the Puma is, regardless of whether the Puma has crossed the give way line onto the roundabout or not?

A bit like this (except the camera is on a bicycle).
https://vine.co/v/bPmWF7vBbAW
This is the Google link..
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.40785,-0.0807,3a...
Reg 25(5) of The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002 apply to the markings in the photo.

Reg 25 TSRGD 2002 said:
(5) Where the transverse lines are placed in conjunction with the sign shown in diagram 611.1 at a junction marked with the road marking shown in diagram 1003.4, then the requirement shall be that no vehicle shall proceed past such one of those lines as is nearer to the road marking shown in diagram 1003.4 in a manner or at a time likely to endanger the driver of or any passenger in a vehicle circulating past that road marking from the right of the first-mentioned vehicle or to cause the driver of the second-mentioned vehicle to change its speed or course in order to avoid an accident.
Diagram 1003 is the Give way markings present.
Diagram 1003.4 is the roundabout road marking present.
Diagram 611.1 is the Mini roundabout sign present.

Edited by vonhosen on Thursday 29th May 22:11
Thank you too. This says to me that traffic from the left shouldn't cross the give way markings onto the mini roundabout if it would cause a vehicle circulating from the right to change speed or course. Would the Puma be considered to be circulating the mini roundabout if it hasn't yet joined it (and is yet to pass its own give way markings)?

Again, I'm just interested in the detail of the rules, I'm not about to start pulling out in front of traffic and risk an accident.

vonhosen

40,198 posts

216 months

Thursday 29th May 2014
quotequote all
Debaser said:
vonhosen said:
Debaser said:
Hello R U LOCAL / vonhosen

I posted this in the aggressive driving thread and wondered what your thoughts are.

Debaser said:
R_U_LOCAL said:
OP, keep an eye on the advanced driving forum over the next few days. There have been a couple of posts on PH recently which have raised questions about roundabouts, so I'll be posting up a piece on roundabouts in general at some time over the weekend. I'll include a section on mini roundabouts which may clear up any misunderstandings.
I'd be interested to know if (in the above Google link) a car entered the roundabout from the left before the silver Puma entered the roundabout, who would have priority? Should a car from the left treat it like a regular T junction and give way to anyone approaching from where the Puma is, regardless of whether the Puma has crossed the give way line onto the roundabout or not?

A bit like this (except the camera is on a bicycle).
https://vine.co/v/bPmWF7vBbAW
This is the Google link..
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.40785,-0.0807,3a...
Reg 25(5) of The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002 apply to the markings in the photo.

Reg 25 TSRGD 2002 said:
(5) Where the transverse lines are placed in conjunction with the sign shown in diagram 611.1 at a junction marked with the road marking shown in diagram 1003.4, then the requirement shall be that no vehicle shall proceed past such one of those lines as is nearer to the road marking shown in diagram 1003.4 in a manner or at a time likely to endanger the driver of or any passenger in a vehicle circulating past that road marking from the right of the first-mentioned vehicle or to cause the driver of the second-mentioned vehicle to change its speed or course in order to avoid an accident.
Diagram 1003 is the Give way markings present.
Diagram 1003.4 is the roundabout road marking present.
Diagram 611.1 is the Mini roundabout sign present.

Edited by vonhosen on Thursday 29th May 22:11
Thank you too. This says to me that traffic from the left shouldn't cross the give way markings onto the mini roundabout if it would cause a vehicle circulating from the right to change speed or course. Would the Puma be considered to be circulating the mini roundabout if it hasn't yet joined it (and is yet to pass its own give way markings)?

Again, I'm just interested in the detail of the rules, I'm not about to start pulling out in front of traffic and risk an accident.
See my post above.

If it's not on the roundabout it can't be circulating the markings 1003.4, only those already on it are doing that.

Debaser

5,665 posts

260 months

Thursday 29th May 2014
quotequote all
R_U_LOCAL said:
Debaser said:
Thank you. So someone approaching from the left should expect to give way to the silver Puma, and shouldn't be concerned about whether the Puma was yet to enter the roundabout?
In a word...

Yes.
vonhosen said:
See my post above.

If it's not on the roundabout it can't be circulating the markings 1003.4, only those already on it are doing that.
Thanks both. It seems this is a bit of a grey area?

Rule 185 of the Highway Code makes it clear that traffic approaching from the left should give way to the silver Puma, but Reg 25(5) of The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions states traffic approaching from the left is ok to join the roundabout because the silver Puma isn't already on the roundabout.

vonhosen

40,198 posts

216 months

Thursday 29th May 2014
quotequote all
Debaser said:
R_U_LOCAL said:
Debaser said:
Thank you. So someone approaching from the left should expect to give way to the silver Puma, and shouldn't be concerned about whether the Puma was yet to enter the roundabout?
In a word...

Yes.
vonhosen said:
See my post above.

If it's not on the roundabout it can't be circulating the markings 1003.4, only those already on it are doing that.
Thanks both. It seems this is a bit of a grey area?

Rule 185 of the Highway Code makes it clear that traffic approaching from the left should give way to the silver Puma, but Reg 25(5) of The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions states traffic approaching from the left is ok to join the roundabout because the silver Puma isn't already on the roundabout.
Highway Code isn't law unless it references law & it will state MUST where it does.
Law trumps Highway Code.
You of course can still be involved in a collision driving legally & collisions are best avoided even if it means conceding to those not following the law.

The highway code quoted also says 'unless directed by signs, road markings etc'.
The markings are directing otherwise in the photo because 25(5) applies as they are present.

Edited by vonhosen on Thursday 29th May 23:05

R_U_LOCAL

Original Poster:

2,676 posts

207 months

Thursday 29th May 2014
quotequote all
It's one of many thousands of examples of a clash between the law (as in, the exact and precise wording of the legislation) and common sense.

If in doubt, invoke Reg's policy of non-involvement.

vonhosen

40,198 posts

216 months

Thursday 29th May 2014
quotequote all
R_U_LOCAL said:
It's one of many thousands of examples of a clash between the law (as in, the exact and precise wording of the legislation) and common sense.

If in doubt, invoke Reg's policy of non-involvement.
I agree that avoidance is best even if it means conceding a legal priority & have made that plain from my posts, but the questioner did say the question was from a technical viewpoint not a practical one.

Legally the vehicle from the left wouldn't be the one breaking the law in those circumstances.

R_U_LOCAL

Original Poster:

2,676 posts

207 months

Thursday 29th May 2014
quotequote all
Some caselaw here...

http://www.kennedys-law.com/casereview/rtaaccident...

Starks v Chief Constable of Hertfordshire [09.07.13]

Although this was a civil case to apportion blame rather than a criminal case. An interesting paragraph from the court of appeal...

The Court of Appeal said:
In a case where two drivers are approaching a mini-roundabout, one being closer but the other travelling faster, the rules about priority may not give a black-and-white answer. Which ought to accommodate the other will involve an exercise of judgement on the part of each driver, with each being prepared to stop at the give way line if there is room for doubt about the other’s intentions.
ETA - full judgement here if you're struggling to sleep...

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2013/782.h...

Edited by R_U_LOCAL on Thursday 29th May 23:38

vonhosen

40,198 posts

216 months

Thursday 29th May 2014
quotequote all
R_U_LOCAL said:
Some caselaw here...

http://www.kennedys-law.com/casereview/rtaaccident...

Starks v Chief Constable of Hertfordshire [09.07.13]

Although this was a civil case to apportion blame rather than a criminal case. An interesting paragraph from the court of appeal...

The Court of Appeal said:
In a case where two drivers are approaching a mini-roundabout, one being closer but the other travelling faster, the rules about priority may not give a black-and-white answer. Which ought to accommodate the other will involve an exercise of judgement on the part of each driver, with each being prepared to stop at the give way line if there is room for doubt about the other’s intentions.
As I've said many times, avoidance is the best course & we should all be looking out for one another. Also (of course) each case stands on it's own facts/merits, but the technical point still remains.

The court of appeal favoured the vehicle from the left in the judgement quoted & the less said about the vehicle from the right the better.

Edited by vonhosen on Thursday 29th May 23:40

Debaser

5,665 posts

260 months

Friday 30th May 2014
quotequote all
That case describes my initial question very well, it's interesting to read, thanks.

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