RE: Tesla Model S: Review
Discussion
Indeed. I think the "novel" thing that Tesla have done, is produce a car in a market where the drive-train is an insignificant part of the overall cost of the vehicle. £10k's worth of batteries in a city car pushing the price up enormously; £15k's worth in a luxury saloon, far less so.
Of course the other thing they've done is market it predominantly in the US, where tax on fuel is low and diesel has never really caught on for private cars, meaning that rising oil prices have a huge effect on the cost of running a car.
Of course the other thing they've done is market it predominantly in the US, where tax on fuel is low and diesel has never really caught on for private cars, meaning that rising oil prices have a huge effect on the cost of running a car.
kambites said:
Indeed. I think the "novel" thing that Tesla have done, is produce a car in a market where the drive-train is an insignificant part of the overall cost of the vehicle. £10k's worth of batteries in a city car pushing the price up enormously; £15k's worth in a luxury saloon, far less so.
It's also probably why a more prestige brand such as BMW can roll out a hatchback when brands more renowned for affordability will struggle. Interestingly, if EVs can carve viable share out of the 'premium' segments where they can be genuinely price competitive you have to wonder if such a reversal of initial concept (ie EVs for the hippy proletariate) will be more successful. We do love a brand or product that is asperational these days.
Tesla have had a more logical business model than most stand alone EV manufacturers in that they have build cars for people who can actually afford them instead of trying to build expensive cars for very price sensitive households.
AnotherClarkey said:
Where were you getting your figures from?
As I said in the post - they're the figures quoted (range is stated as EPA for all bar the Zoe - NEDC - and Twizy - unsourced) on the relevant Wikipedia pages. Excuse me for not bothering to chase down a shedload of figures from a shedload of different sources.AnotherClarkey said:
Real-world data
<rolls eyes>... <grin>AnotherClarkey said:
that I have looked at suggests that the Leaf and Zoe are very close on efficiency - Leaf 18.28 kWh/100km, Zoe 17.91 kWh/100km (source: Spritmonitor.de). The same source has the Twizy at 9.02 kWh/100km and the Tesla at 22.08 kWh/100km.
They seem to tie up with the figures I gave. 22.08 kwh/100km = 22.08 kwh/62 miles = .356 kwh/mile = 2.8 miles/kwh vs the 3.1 miles/kwh that the official figures work out to. And they're all roughly in line.But those figures are the first set I gave, ignoring vehicle weight.
Edited by TooMany2cvs on Tuesday 3rd June 12:33
Edited by TooMany2cvs on Sunday 8th June 11:55
Had a go in a P85+ today and it was deeply impressive. I was amazed at its performance and instantaneous throttle response. The relentless surge of effortless acceleration and power was really something! I'm used to fast cars and it still impressed. It also looks great (red with anthracite 21" turbine wheels) and I also liked the interior. The seats seemed a little bit small and felt cheap though. Overall though a tremendous achievement and a genuinely desirable vehicle. Definitely an option for me to seriously consider.
I'm also going for a test drive with the wife on Saturday. She currently has a five year old lexus which she commutes into london daily, round trip of about 60 miles, so spends about £60 a week in petrol. We live just outside the m25 in a little village & are lucky to have our own drive so can install a 32a home charger. So charging once a week will be sufficient, for her typical use. The Tesla supercharger network is actually expanding nicely, we go to Westfield in White City regularly as a family, so we can park free & charge the car up for free, if she needs to commute down the M4 corridor she can charge in Reading then further along at Bristol so can visit the family in Wales. If we need to go Up North we can charge for free in Birmingham then Warrington so feasibly to Newcastle isn't an issue, this is based solely on the Rapid charging network so doesn't inclide any of the other free charging points which although are slower will still allow me to pretty much hit any part of the country in a day.. In essence, we will have a car that can carry the seven of us, will cost nothing in road tax, is comparable if not slightly cheaper to insure that an ICE equivalent, doesn't directly pollute the environment, will be a hoot to drive & if we buy it for the Company 100% can be offset against first year profits. As a long term proposition its a no brainer. Last Week I knew nothing about EV but in just a few days I am convinced this IS the game changer & I'm going to embrace the technology. Just another interesting point to make, the software in the vehicle can be remotely updated, so you have the chance of receiving all the latest technological advancements the same time as a new vehicle rolling of the production line. I see this as an ideal opportunity to give 2 fingers up to the Government, Oil Producers & Energy Companies as they are well aware that sooner than many people believe this is happening. I personally know of a few families in London who have chosen this as the family car , no parking charges, free energy, Eco friendly. What's not to like????
I had a P85+ for a week and loved it.
The seats are a bit funny and the switchgear is last gen Merc but it was great.
The touch-screen actually won me over, no pictures do it justice. It really is implemented well.
When pushed hard it had some unusual handling characteristics but I can't think that too many owners would take one on a track.
I really don't know what to compare it to though. Performance, list price and size wise an M5 perhaps but it's loads more practical (3 dogs in the boot!), cheaper to run and (in my eye) better looking whilst not as dynamic to drive and doesn't make any noise.
The seats are a bit funny and the switchgear is last gen Merc but it was great.
The touch-screen actually won me over, no pictures do it justice. It really is implemented well.
When pushed hard it had some unusual handling characteristics but I can't think that too many owners would take one on a track.
I really don't know what to compare it to though. Performance, list price and size wise an M5 perhaps but it's loads more practical (3 dogs in the boot!), cheaper to run and (in my eye) better looking whilst not as dynamic to drive and doesn't make any noise.
Debaser said:
Poor ride comfort, lack of steering feel, poor HMI, lack of small item storage, uncomfortable seats, oddly high driving position, poor comfort in the rear seats due to low seats / high floor, very poor quality trim and materials.
I found the inside to be a lovely place.Grandunion said:
if we buy it for the Company 100% can be offset against first year profits.
Just make sure you understand that's 100% of the corporation tax liability. So per £1000 you spend on the car you get to pay £200 less CT. As long as you had enough CT due in the first place! If you are making 100k profit you'll be fine. And you missed the BiK tax is about 1/10 that of an equivalently powerful car.Watch for the winter range loss. up to 25%. But a warm garage or setting the charger so the batteries will have just finished charging before you set off (and hence still be warm) will help the range. Not that it matters much on a 85kWh Telsa. You'll still get 170+ miles range worse case.
Had the pleasure of driving one of these this week. I have a diesel 5 series, and was invited to try it, and see if it could genuinely fit my daily drive of upto 150 miles.
I was sceptical, but went in with an open mind...it did not take long for me to be bowled over by this car, and I am a die hard petrol head having an Elise as well.
So smooth, comfortable, handling seemed fine to me, tech is fabulous, seats comfortable and has anyone mentioned it is fast enough for any traffic light grand prix without even trying.
Going to borrow one for a bit longer, as I want to genuinely use it on my daily run around, but I cannot tell you how impressed I was with it, and I absolutely love my F10 for relaxed cruising.
I was sceptical, but went in with an open mind...it did not take long for me to be bowled over by this car, and I am a die hard petrol head having an Elise as well.
So smooth, comfortable, handling seemed fine to me, tech is fabulous, seats comfortable and has anyone mentioned it is fast enough for any traffic light grand prix without even trying.
Going to borrow one for a bit longer, as I want to genuinely use it on my daily run around, but I cannot tell you how impressed I was with it, and I absolutely love my F10 for relaxed cruising.
Not yet convinced by these.
I've seen a lot more of them in London recently, which is the sort of environment (urban) that I think a hybrid suits. Short journeys, low speed.
Why have something that is 5 series/E class competitive for that? Yes, I also see a lot of 5 series and E classes, but those will do many hundreds of miles on a tank at the weekend, and when the tank runs dry they take minutes to refuel. That remains the run with this sort of car - if you drive long distances you need two cars.
As for the performance, it's impressive to see what it can do, but when do you get to use that in an urban environment, and when are you going to take this car on an A road road trip?
I've seen a lot more of them in London recently, which is the sort of environment (urban) that I think a hybrid suits. Short journeys, low speed.
Why have something that is 5 series/E class competitive for that? Yes, I also see a lot of 5 series and E classes, but those will do many hundreds of miles on a tank at the weekend, and when the tank runs dry they take minutes to refuel. That remains the run with this sort of car - if you drive long distances you need two cars.
As for the performance, it's impressive to see what it can do, but when do you get to use that in an urban environment, and when are you going to take this car on an A road road trip?
Greg66 said:
Not yet convinced by these.
I've seen a lot more of them in London recently, which is the sort of environment (urban) that I think a hybrid suits. Short journeys, low speed.
Why have something that is 5 series/E class competitive for that? Yes, I also see a lot of 5 series and E classes, but those will do many hundreds of miles on a tank at the weekend, and when the tank runs dry they take minutes to refuel. That remains the run with this sort of car - if you drive long distances you need two cars.
As for the performance, it's impressive to see what it can do, but when do you get to use that in an urban environment, and when are you going to take this car on an A road road trip?
Well that is the ironic thing, I dont live in London, we do have alot of traffic lights, but have overtaking opportunities as well as motorway driving, where its ability to pick up speed is staggering. You do not have to drive like your arse is on fire everywhere, it is just very therapeutic and when someone tries to cut you off, away you go!I've seen a lot more of them in London recently, which is the sort of environment (urban) that I think a hybrid suits. Short journeys, low speed.
Why have something that is 5 series/E class competitive for that? Yes, I also see a lot of 5 series and E classes, but those will do many hundreds of miles on a tank at the weekend, and when the tank runs dry they take minutes to refuel. That remains the run with this sort of car - if you drive long distances you need two cars.
As for the performance, it's impressive to see what it can do, but when do you get to use that in an urban environment, and when are you going to take this car on an A road road trip?
No rub to recharge if you go home every night or have a charger at work. Long distances the car will map your between charging points, and the idea is I pop in for a sandwich and it boosts the range by 100 miles. That said 300 miles on a charge is easily more than a day out for me.
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