RE: Tesla Model S: Review
Discussion
Greg66 said:
Not yet convinced by these.
I've seen a lot more of them in London recently, which is the sort of environment (urban) that I think a hybrid suits. Short journeys, low speed.
Why have something that is 5 series/E class competitive for that? Yes, I also see a lot of 5 series and E classes, but those will do many hundreds of miles on a tank at the weekend, and when the tank runs dry they take minutes to refuel. That remains the run with this sort of car - if you drive long distances you need two cars.
As for the performance, it's impressive to see what it can do, but when do you get to use that in an urban environment, and when are you going to take this car on an A road road trip?
I would hazard that there are actually very few people in this country who ever do the kind of mileage that would need you to recharge in a Tesla. The average daily distance traveled in the UK by car is around 8 miles. I've seen a lot more of them in London recently, which is the sort of environment (urban) that I think a hybrid suits. Short journeys, low speed.
Why have something that is 5 series/E class competitive for that? Yes, I also see a lot of 5 series and E classes, but those will do many hundreds of miles on a tank at the weekend, and when the tank runs dry they take minutes to refuel. That remains the run with this sort of car - if you drive long distances you need two cars.
As for the performance, it's impressive to see what it can do, but when do you get to use that in an urban environment, and when are you going to take this car on an A road road trip?
I'm seeing quite a few of these now doing the weekly commute from London to the West Country on a Friday evening.
Greg66 said:
Not yet convinced by these.
I've seen a lot more of them in London recently, which is the sort of environment (urban) that I think a hybrid suits. Short journeys, low speed.
Why have something that is 5 series/E class competitive for that? Yes, I also see a lot of 5 series and E classes, but those will do many hundreds of miles on a tank at the weekend, and when the tank runs dry they take minutes to refuel. That remains the run with this sort of car - if you drive long distances you need two cars.
As for the performance, it's impressive to see what it can do, but when do you get to use that in an urban environment, and when are you going to take this car on an A road road trip?
I can't see why you would need two cars. Ypu can do 260 miles (real world) on a full tank, then top up to 170 miles in 30 minutes. Thats about 4-5 hours of driving + another 3 hours. Who doesn't want a 30 minute break at those distances. Its about the same range as a normal car, except you need a short break instead of a splash and dash.I've seen a lot more of them in London recently, which is the sort of environment (urban) that I think a hybrid suits. Short journeys, low speed.
Why have something that is 5 series/E class competitive for that? Yes, I also see a lot of 5 series and E classes, but those will do many hundreds of miles on a tank at the weekend, and when the tank runs dry they take minutes to refuel. That remains the run with this sort of car - if you drive long distances you need two cars.
As for the performance, it's impressive to see what it can do, but when do you get to use that in an urban environment, and when are you going to take this car on an A road road trip?
If you really do need to drive solidly for 10 or 12 hours a day then its possibly not for you, but thats a requirment for a small group of people.
I'm also seeing a lot of them around london. I hadn't seen any since I saw my first one at GFOS, but in the past 2 weeks I've seen 4, and I only have a 100yard walk from the station to work.
98elise said:
Mr GrimNasty said:
Grandunion said:
Eco friendly.
Only if you are willfully dumb and blind. Buy it for what it is, if it suits you, but 'green' it isn't. 
Unless it's nuclear of course...RichB said:
98elise said:
Mr GrimNasty said:
Grandunion said:
Eco friendly.
Only if you are willfully dumb and blind. Buy it for what it is, if it suits you, but 'green' it isn't. Unless it's nuclear of course...The main reason people don't like EV's is that they don't have the same "soul" as an ICE, and I would agree with them 100%, however there is no doubt that EV's make a lot of sense for a lot of drivers. Either way the pure ICE is dead in the water.it won't be long before all cars are hybrid or pure EV.
98elise said:
RichB said:
98elise said:
Mr GrimNasty said:
Grandunion said:
Eco friendly.
Only if you are willfully dumb and blind. Buy it for what it is, if it suits you, but 'green' it isn't. Unless it's nuclear of course...RichB said:
ell it does use energy of course. The difference is that it is generated at a power station so the pollution goes into the air somewhere else Unless it's nuclear of course...
In this car the energy lost in inefficiency is done at the power station. In an ICE its done in the car. Unless it's nuclear of course...Edited by jamoor on Saturday 23 May 10:33
RichB said:
orry couldn't resist but it always amuses me when people make daft statements about battery cars then duck the issue that there's a power station somewhere burning gas or something to generate the energy
Does depend. The waste from a remote power station can firstly be captured more efficiently. It is also more efficient than a million tiny motors. And the waste is less toxic to people as there are fewer people in the vicinity. Conversely, a million little motors generating hundreds of decibels of noise pollution and direct air pollution instantly impacting on millions of people. That's pollution.
When you stand in the heart of any global metropolis on the planet and register the massive noise pollution, air pollution, heat pollution then you suddenly appreciate that there is absolutely no logical argument against removing the noise and heat pollution and shifting the air pollution to a singular point that can be better controlled and has less direct impact on people.
And then when you appreciate that the majority of humans live in cities and cover very low mileage it all seems awfully logical to shift to EV for millions of car users.
RichB said:
98elise said:
RichB said:
98elise said:
Mr GrimNasty said:
Grandunion said:
Eco friendly.
Only if you are willfully dumb and blind. Buy it for what it is, if it suits you, but 'green' it isn't. Unless it's nuclear of course...It always amuses me when people make daft statements about anything without even doing a little research.
Hey, lighten up the sun's shining, go for a spirited drive 
I simply chuckled at the idea that Teslas use "so little" energy - then you say perhaps they use half, no great deal, not worth causing World War 3 over.
And p.s. I've read plenty about EVs; and fans always quote the most favourable facts about the actual car but often disregard the polution from the power stations, the distribution across the national grid, the short life span of the batteries and the environmental cost of disposing of them etc. etc. They are not the universal panacea that some suggest they are. I'm sure hybrids are the way forward but I don't buy half the of the "eco" claptrap that people trot out.
I simply chuckled at the idea that Teslas use "so little" energy - then you say perhaps they use half, no great deal, not worth causing World War 3 over.And p.s. I've read plenty about EVs; and fans always quote the most favourable facts about the actual car but often disregard the polution from the power stations, the distribution across the national grid, the short life span of the batteries and the environmental cost of disposing of them etc. etc. They are not the universal panacea that some suggest they are. I'm sure hybrids are the way forward but I don't buy half the of the "eco" claptrap that people trot out.
RichB said:
Hey, lighten up the sun's shining, go for a spirited drive I simply chuckled at the idea that Teslas use "so little" energy - then you say perhaps they use half, no great deal, not worth causing World War 3 over.
And p.s. I've read plenty about EVs; and fans always quote the most favourable facts about the actual car but often disregard the polution from the power stations, the distribution across the national grid, the short life span of the batteries and the environmental cost of disposing of them etc. etc. They are not the universal panacea that some suggest they are. I'm sure hybrids are the way forward but I don't buy half the of the "eco" claptrap that people trot out.
Agree. But if they replaced every low mileage utility box on the road then absolutely everyone's life would be better. It is better to shift the air pollution away from the most people. It is better to reduce urban noise pollution. There is no issue for the national grid, in fact the opposite as the majority will charge at night this making the grid actually more efficient. And the cars are mechanically more simple so cheaper to make and run. I simply chuckled at the idea that Teslas use "so little" energy - then you say perhaps they use half, no great deal, not worth causing World War 3 over.And p.s. I've read plenty about EVs; and fans always quote the most favourable facts about the actual car but often disregard the polution from the power stations, the distribution across the national grid, the short life span of the batteries and the environmental cost of disposing of them etc. etc. They are not the universal panacea that some suggest they are. I'm sure hybrids are the way forward but I don't buy half the of the "eco" claptrap that people trot out.
The only real issue to EVs is as you say the batteries. Batteries are crap. They don't store enough, don't last long enough and are too expensive. The switch to Lithium has helped in terms of power but Lithium resources are all in tin pot third world countries and now under control of the Chinese so prices are not going to fall.
Until the cost of batteries slumps then EVs just aren't a viable solution for the masses.
But the single most important upside to EVs is that if you are no longer being deafened by a million nasty little diesels and petrol 4 pots then you'll be able to hear all the nice cars a mile off.
Agree with that DA and was only being flippant in my original remark. I am interested in the idea of EVs and Hybrids else I wouldn't be on the Tesla thread. But not sure they're for me yet. For example, in-laws live in 160 miles away in Somerset so if I drive there and back in a day I would have to re-charge using their electricity which seems a bit cheeky as they are OAPs in a budget.
RichB said:
Agree with that DA and was only being flippant in my original remark. I am interested in the idea of EVs and Hybrids else I wouldn't be on the Tesla thread. But not sure they're for me yet. For example, in-laws live in 160 miles away in Somerset so if I drive there and back in a day I would have to re-charge using their electricity which seems a bit cheeky as they are OAPs in a budget.
Yup. Most of us as PHers have the issue that we do need to put in some big miles every so often. Obviously you can have a hire car delivered for those occasions but you'd have to be a bit of an EV fanatic or EVs would have to be a hell of a lot cheaper for that sort of behaviour to make sense. But the army of suburban runabouts that never do more than a few miles a day chugging about locally are perfect to be dumped for EVs. But not until the price of batteries plummets or the Govt decide to remove the cost of batteries from the equation.
The Tesla is interesting because it combats the battery cost issue by being a premium vehicle, like the BMWs do. But the days of EVs being cars for the people is unfortunately a long way off.
DonkeyApple said:
RichB said:
Agree with that DA and was only being flippant in my original remark. I am interested in the idea of EVs and Hybrids else I wouldn't be on the Tesla thread. But not sure they're for me yet. For example, in-laws live in 160 miles away in Somerset so if I drive there and back in a day I would have to re-charge using their electricity which seems a bit cheeky as they are OAPs in a budget.
Yup. Most of us as PHers have the issue that we do need to put in some big miles every so often. Obviously you can have a hire car delivered for those occasions but you'd have to be a bit of an EV fanatic or EVs would have to be a hell of a lot cheaper for that sort of behaviour to make sense. But the army of suburban runabouts that never do more than a few miles a day chugging about locally are perfect to be dumped for EVs. But not until the price of batteries plummets or the Govt decide to remove the cost of batteries from the equation.
The Tesla is interesting because it combats the battery cost issue by being a premium vehicle, like the BMWs do. But the days of EVs being cars for the people is unfortunately a long way off.
For some people an EV is ideal. My retired mother does about 5-10 miles per week of normal driving, but goes out for extra drives just to keep the battery charged. An ICE car is just pointless for her. The car has done the last 10k miles without ever getting properly warmed up!
98elise said:
Tesla model 3 is supposed to start at $35k, and likely to be 30k here. Thats still an expesive car, but certainly heading in the right direction.
For some people an EV is ideal. My retired mother does about 5-10 miles per week of normal driving, but goes out for extra drives just to keep the battery charged. An ICE car is just pointless for her. The car has done the last 10k miles without ever getting properly warmed up!
There are millions of car users for whom EV makes more sense. Almost every driveway in suburbia has a car that only does a few miles a day. And the average car commute in the UK is less than 9 miles also. For some people an EV is ideal. My retired mother does about 5-10 miles per week of normal driving, but goes out for extra drives just to keep the battery charged. An ICE car is just pointless for her. The car has done the last 10k miles without ever getting properly warmed up!
It really is just the price that stops expansion and that is all down to the batteries. Unfortunately there is no obvious solution in the pipeline to solve that issue and and such lugging around an ICE generator so as to allow for fewer cells is the only current solution and when you think about it a hybrid as an absolutely daft concept.
98elise said:
<your mother> goes out for extra drives just to keep the battery charged.
I'm honestly not picking on your posts but doesn't that just seem rather ironic! Given that she's using fossil fuel to re-charge her batteries she's not exactly helping to save the planet by going on random drives to keep the car topped up 
Now if she was going on random drives in an AC Cobra for the sheer hell of it I'd applaud her.
Everyone goes on about the price of this Tesla, but in size and performance its a Panamera rival and those things aren't cheap either. I love this car! Sure there are emissions involved in the electricity, but the important thing is there is nothing coming out of the tail pipe, so no smellies when they pass me on my walk to the shops, unlike a diesel Panamera etc.
Spent the last couple of days in the Tesla, deliberately not the hot one, instead the 70D. All wheel drive, on 21" alloys, air suspension and panoramic roof.
A quick test drive is all very well, but I wanted to genuinely check the range, and the ease of use with my day to day life.
Comments if you are interested with solutions -
No centre console, so phone, ipod, keys etc roll around - this has been addressed and they now produce a centre console to cover all this.
It is so quick, there is a temptation to rag everywhere, limiting your range. After a couple of hours it becomes like driving a Lotus, you save the warp factor ( which it genuinely is!) to overtaking and B roads, rest of the time you have a seriously linear power delivery everywhere, completely relentless and effortless but serious fun.
Charging - rather limited in Sussex. Solution is you trickle charge it every night, takes 30 secs to connect and can be monitored on your phone. Supercharger going in locally, which is free for life, and takes 40 mins to charge 220 miles, others coming.
Regenerative braking - you only use the brake pedal to actually stop, lifting off of the accelerator brings you down to almost zero. Hard to get used to, but after 200 miles, all I can say is, why does'nt every car do this?? It is brilliant. ( obviously I know why )
Sound - it is quiet. This is actually very calming - not like driving a sportscar with an exhaust ( I have the Elise for that and love it )- but strangely very pleasant
It is a car you can use all day everyday. When I picked it up, it had been charged to 246 miles, I drove 200 and it still had 40 mile range left. This included taking several people out in it to demonstrate the striking performance and its ability to go around roundabouts like an Elise ( on my private test track of course ) So a genuine 250 mile plus range per charge once in normal mode.
It is very comfortable, trim is of a good quality, if a little sparce. Points of contact, steering wheel, door handles, switchgear all very nice. Door handle feel is better than an XF for comparison.
Get in with keyless entry, select drive, roll away silently.
Big screen. Well, it is big, it took a couple of days to get used to it, then it is surprisingly good.
Sat nav is excellent, although the car does utilise its own personal 3G rather than a disk, so
could be a pain if signal is an issue your way to find the destination. You do everything on it -
Phone - excellent, really very good.
Nav - apart from a possible delay, once set is also excellent
Music - could not get my ipod to work, only tried once, but was not that fussed, my iphone did work very effectively with bluetooth music from itunes. You also have Rdio, which apparently is unlimited music online?
Sunroof - opens and closes by a % swipe of the finger
Suspension settings - raise or lower it for speed humps etc
Climate controls
Brightness can now be controlled up and down or auto.
Sat nav next to the speedo with separate direction notification to the main screen.
Boot and bonnet space as big as the 5 series.
Would I buy one? Simply yes. They are a lot of money, £70k with options, but the ease of drive, technology integration, increasing charging options, range and tax advantages make it a compelling option to a traditional car.
Oh and people stare at it and ask questions when you stop, just like back in 1997 with my first Elise.
In short. I loved this car and I am excited for the future if more and more come to the market. A genuine alternative to the 5 series ( which I love ) which I can use for 200 mile days with a little variation on how you do your day. No longer does the future of electric cars mean you have to sit in a car that looks like an electric car.
Hope this gives a real world view of it for you.
A quick test drive is all very well, but I wanted to genuinely check the range, and the ease of use with my day to day life.
Comments if you are interested with solutions -
No centre console, so phone, ipod, keys etc roll around - this has been addressed and they now produce a centre console to cover all this.
It is so quick, there is a temptation to rag everywhere, limiting your range. After a couple of hours it becomes like driving a Lotus, you save the warp factor ( which it genuinely is!) to overtaking and B roads, rest of the time you have a seriously linear power delivery everywhere, completely relentless and effortless but serious fun.
Charging - rather limited in Sussex. Solution is you trickle charge it every night, takes 30 secs to connect and can be monitored on your phone. Supercharger going in locally, which is free for life, and takes 40 mins to charge 220 miles, others coming.
Regenerative braking - you only use the brake pedal to actually stop, lifting off of the accelerator brings you down to almost zero. Hard to get used to, but after 200 miles, all I can say is, why does'nt every car do this?? It is brilliant. ( obviously I know why )
Sound - it is quiet. This is actually very calming - not like driving a sportscar with an exhaust ( I have the Elise for that and love it )- but strangely very pleasant
It is a car you can use all day everyday. When I picked it up, it had been charged to 246 miles, I drove 200 and it still had 40 mile range left. This included taking several people out in it to demonstrate the striking performance and its ability to go around roundabouts like an Elise ( on my private test track of course ) So a genuine 250 mile plus range per charge once in normal mode.
It is very comfortable, trim is of a good quality, if a little sparce. Points of contact, steering wheel, door handles, switchgear all very nice. Door handle feel is better than an XF for comparison.
Get in with keyless entry, select drive, roll away silently.
Big screen. Well, it is big, it took a couple of days to get used to it, then it is surprisingly good.
Sat nav is excellent, although the car does utilise its own personal 3G rather than a disk, so
could be a pain if signal is an issue your way to find the destination. You do everything on it -
Phone - excellent, really very good.
Nav - apart from a possible delay, once set is also excellent
Music - could not get my ipod to work, only tried once, but was not that fussed, my iphone did work very effectively with bluetooth music from itunes. You also have Rdio, which apparently is unlimited music online?
Sunroof - opens and closes by a % swipe of the finger
Suspension settings - raise or lower it for speed humps etc
Climate controls
Brightness can now be controlled up and down or auto.
Sat nav next to the speedo with separate direction notification to the main screen.
Boot and bonnet space as big as the 5 series.
Would I buy one? Simply yes. They are a lot of money, £70k with options, but the ease of drive, technology integration, increasing charging options, range and tax advantages make it a compelling option to a traditional car.
Oh and people stare at it and ask questions when you stop, just like back in 1997 with my first Elise.
In short. I loved this car and I am excited for the future if more and more come to the market. A genuine alternative to the 5 series ( which I love ) which I can use for 200 mile days with a little variation on how you do your day. No longer does the future of electric cars mean you have to sit in a car that looks like an electric car.
Hope this gives a real world view of it for you.
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