Discussion
phil_cardiff said:
Whilst I naturally found tonight hilarious I must cheer up my silly English chums.
There's actually some hope for you in the future. Here's why:
1. Hartley and Tuilagi offer you loads and are definitely available for you.
2. The Armitage brothers (especially Steff) would improve you greatly but you need to somehow change the contract the RFU have with the clubs
3. A decent coach will improve you massively. One who doesn't play a loose game against the best 7 and one of the best 7s in world rugby.
4. A decent assistant coach will allow you to drop Farrell.
5. Slade is class and will improve you.
Cheers up stout saxon yeomen, all is not lost.
Armitage is 30 so no point going there now.There's actually some hope for you in the future. Here's why:
1. Hartley and Tuilagi offer you loads and are definitely available for you.
2. The Armitage brothers (especially Steff) would improve you greatly but you need to somehow change the contract the RFU have with the clubs
3. A decent coach will improve you massively. One who doesn't play a loose game against the best 7 and one of the best 7s in world rugby.
4. A decent assistant coach will allow you to drop Farrell.
5. Slade is class and will improve you.
Cheers up stout saxon yeomen, all is not lost.
Looks like Tuilagi off to France as well.
The core of them team needs to remain but I think Lancaster has to fall on his sword, as does Robshaw.
And Parling shouldn't be at an international match unless he buys his own ticket to the stands. Hartley probably too old for the next world cup as well.
MG CHRIS said:
How does the quarter finals get sorted out between teams. Ie who are likely to play wales.
If Wales can beat Australia, they'll probably face Scotland next, otherwise it's South AfricaIf Ireland beat Italy tomorrow and France next week, we'll probably face Argentina, otherwise it's New Zealand
Leins said:
MG CHRIS said:
How does the quarter finals get sorted out between teams. Ie who are likely to play wales.
If Wales can beat Australia, they'll probably face Scotland next, otherwise it's South AfricaIf Ireland beat Italy tomorrow and France next week, we'll probably face Argentina, otherwise it's New Zealand
Maybe Aus will put their 2nd team out for a run again.
Leins said:
MG CHRIS said:
How does the quarter finals get sorted out between teams. Ie who are likely to play wales.
If Wales can beat Australia, they'll probably face Scotland next, otherwise it's South Africajohnfm said:
Leins said:
MG CHRIS said:
How does the quarter finals get sorted out between teams. Ie who are likely to play wales.
If Wales can beat Australia, they'll probably face Scotland next, otherwise it's South AfricaIf Ireland beat Italy tomorrow and France next week, we'll probably face Argentina, otherwise it's New Zealand
Maybe Aus will put their 2nd team out for a run again.
johnfm said:
LOL. You scraped a win against the English and barely beat Fiji.
Maybe Aus will put their 2nd team out for a run again.
Hey - you lost to Wales and also Oz it means your out of the World Cup already. Maybe Aus will put their 2nd team out for a run again.
Bit of respect please.
Wales beat you away with massive injury list
5 day turnaround with additional injuries facing a 10 day turnaround Fiji who only had a 3rd place auto qualification to play for all for broke. They secured the win.
Uraguay 5 points lots of tries.
England going home.
Wales v Oz wl be very interesting I've a feeling it will be strongest side possible to put out and no holding back going for he clean sweep. Oz might hold back for longer tournament options.
How's it like exiting at the pool stage of your own RWC? Not good I guess hmm lots for you to consider.
MG CHRIS said:
We had a similar problem that individual players trying to make a name for themselves instead of playing the team game maybe the English need to start doing the same.
the irony is that the one player who's started to play as a team player rather than a (in his own mind) star player wasn't selected (Cips) Welshbeef said:
BlackLabel said:
Wonder what Danny Cipriani has planned for his next column.
HahaDidn't he say last week not a single Oz player would make the starting England 15!
That's a ballsy statement and sadly not a thing to back it up with.
DJRC said:
Simply being out played.
Out played, out thought, out fought.... let's face it we spluttered to a reasonable showing a couple of times before imploding 
TBH I feel sorry for both bomber and Robshaw both of whom seem thoroughly decent men. Bomber did a lot that was right his first (and probably worst) mistake was to get Farrell on the staff. Dare I say "if only we had managed to get Eddie Jones". As for a previous suggest of Sir CW - NO! Just no, I really don't think that he is the answer now.Other people have mentioned the Armitage brothers - Delon is a spoiled brat who is (IMO) not as good as Brown, Foden and quite possibly Parnell and Bendyman. As for Steff... well he may not be around for the next W/C but we need to get a winning team and mentality up and running and to that end we need to start getting a team which can beat the world's best and introduce new players into a winning environment.
Final word - I said ages ago that Fazlet was a brainless, petulant little f
k and he would get caught out sooner or later... sadly I was right. I can forgive the tackle without the ball it was a mis-judgement, no real issues with that, the shoulder charge however with no attempt at all to use the arms...... ! 
sidicks said:
Symbolica said:
If only England had a superb openside playing in France.
Not having him in the squad was madness, the Aus backrow steamrollered them for the entire first half tonight.
I guess with Lancaster gone, this policy could change?Not having him in the squad was madness, the Aus backrow steamrollered them for the entire first half tonight.
I really can't see the point in getting rid of Lancaster. Do people forget how bad watching England was before he came on the scene?
I also see a lot of Woodward this, Woodward that talk. People seem to be forgetting that it took him a good few years to put a decent team together and when they all retired after the winning W/C England were useless again and he was sacked PDQ.
This England team are still young and inexperienced. I'd give him another 2 years but then I'd want to see improvements, a more consistent selection policy, a definitive style of play and most importantly winning against the big boys.
I also see a lot of Woodward this, Woodward that talk. People seem to be forgetting that it took him a good few years to put a decent team together and when they all retired after the winning W/C England were useless again and he was sacked PDQ.
This England team are still young and inexperienced. I'd give him another 2 years but then I'd want to see improvements, a more consistent selection policy, a definitive style of play and most importantly winning against the big boys.
London424 said:
I really can't see the point in getting rid of Lancaster. Do people forget how bad watching England was before he came on the scene?
I also see a lot of Woodward this, Woodward that talk. People seem to be forgetting that it took him a good few years to put a decent team together and when they all retired after the winning W/C England were useless again and he was sacked PDQ.
This England team are still young and inexperienced. I'd give him another 2 years but then I'd want to see improvements, a more consistent selection policy, a definitive style of play and most importantly winning against the big boys.
I remember. I remember the disastrous WC Martin Johnson took us to. The only problem was that we got out of the groups... And we didn't have home field advantage. England are not world beaters - but we should be competing for the 6 nations... We were not there. The WC has been painful. He has to fall on his sword. The man will be well paid off. He has lost the faith of the public - the public pay for the sport, he cannot and will not stay. I also see a lot of Woodward this, Woodward that talk. People seem to be forgetting that it took him a good few years to put a decent team together and when they all retired after the winning W/C England were useless again and he was sacked PDQ.
This England team are still young and inexperienced. I'd give him another 2 years but then I'd want to see improvements, a more consistent selection policy, a definitive style of play and most importantly winning against the big boys.
The team are not that young. Look at the average age, and compare it to other international teams. Lot's of players don't have many caps because he has been jumping around and has not built a foundation of a solid squad. He's had 4 years. He is written off some world class players, because he has a model of both the type of rugby player and the type of man he wants.
England need a new start, to do that we need a clean sheet of paper to work off. A new coaching team, a new captain and a new outlook. All players who were written off should be considered again. Let's pick on talent on the pitch and forget if they are people you would want to look after your kids. Let's attempt to make England a team others fear. I think it shall be exciting and am looking forward to Japan already.
Thankfully - I have faith in both our academies and our England youth teams. They are consistently near the top of the pack in junior world championships and 6 nations. We need to convert that into senior rugby. It will be exciting to see what happens now!
Lancaster needs to go. Throughly decent guy but not up to this level of coaching. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but he got this wrong pre six nations not giving talented players enough of a crack to get some caps under their belts.
Any arm chair coach could see that the bench was unbalanced very nieve. It didn't cost us the game in the end but just highlights the issue.
Unfit and out of form players carried. Ben Morgan is a class player but at no point has he looked match fit in this World Cup. The back row has been my main gripe under Lancaster. Lack of carrying and a real 7, I'm not not going to hang Robshaw out to dry as he's been one of the most consistent England players over the last 4 years but a 7 he is not. A solid player but I don't think I'd have him at 6 either just doesn't excel in any particular attribute I'd want to see in a blind side.
Most of the squad should be able to come back in so long as they're chosen on form. Barritt can be binned for good, whoever comes in needs to decide on a style of play and build a team to suit or pick a team with a bit of intelligence to adapt to what's in front of them. Fazlet is suited to a 10 man game and don't think he is the future at 10. Again pick on form but Ford will take this team forward. I wouldn't rule out being second string behind Cipriani or start giving Slade some game time.
Australia tonight showed the value of having something other than a big lump at 12 there are plenty of players kicking about that could do that job for the England side.
I'm pretty gutted England are out, last whinge on it but the group of death should never have happened.
Onwards and upwards anyhow can enjoy the rest of the tournament for what it is now.
Any arm chair coach could see that the bench was unbalanced very nieve. It didn't cost us the game in the end but just highlights the issue.
Unfit and out of form players carried. Ben Morgan is a class player but at no point has he looked match fit in this World Cup. The back row has been my main gripe under Lancaster. Lack of carrying and a real 7, I'm not not going to hang Robshaw out to dry as he's been one of the most consistent England players over the last 4 years but a 7 he is not. A solid player but I don't think I'd have him at 6 either just doesn't excel in any particular attribute I'd want to see in a blind side.
Most of the squad should be able to come back in so long as they're chosen on form. Barritt can be binned for good, whoever comes in needs to decide on a style of play and build a team to suit or pick a team with a bit of intelligence to adapt to what's in front of them. Fazlet is suited to a 10 man game and don't think he is the future at 10. Again pick on form but Ford will take this team forward. I wouldn't rule out being second string behind Cipriani or start giving Slade some game time.
Australia tonight showed the value of having something other than a big lump at 12 there are plenty of players kicking about that could do that job for the England side.
I'm pretty gutted England are out, last whinge on it but the group of death should never have happened.
Onwards and upwards anyhow can enjoy the rest of the tournament for what it is now.
I said after the Fiji game that the scrum and the breakdown weren't good enough and from what I have read they weren't good enough tonight either (currently at JFK about to fly him from NYC so couldn't see the game)...no shock that the midfield wasn't a threat.
II have come to the conclusion that Lancaster did a great job getting this England squad on after the disaster in 2011 but let's face it that was not a hard job. He and the rugby his England side have played have looked less convincing as his tenure has gone on...injuries or no injuries the issues around the midfield were totally inexcusable. With the power and speed of modern players and the organised defences you just cannot have a 10 and 12 as limited as Farrell and Barritt...every player in that back line has to ask questions of the opposition with ball in hand. Tine to move on...basic question has to be "are these players good enough to beat Southern Hemisphere teams" if not get rid and try and find some that are...even if they play in France.
II have come to the conclusion that Lancaster did a great job getting this England squad on after the disaster in 2011 but let's face it that was not a hard job. He and the rugby his England side have played have looked less convincing as his tenure has gone on...injuries or no injuries the issues around the midfield were totally inexcusable. With the power and speed of modern players and the organised defences you just cannot have a 10 and 12 as limited as Farrell and Barritt...every player in that back line has to ask questions of the opposition with ball in hand. Tine to move on...basic question has to be "are these players good enough to beat Southern Hemisphere teams" if not get rid and try and find some that are...even if they play in France.
sdfasasav
Sorry I'm pissed
I've been playing the 'England losing' drinking game, take a shot for ;
Sack the manager,
It was the press hyping us up,
Australia played really well, not so much that 'we' were bad
and down the fking bottle for;
There will be an investigation into the loss.
Scotland? Yeah we lost fk it, we were never going to beat SA 
Sorry I'm pissed
I've been playing the 'England losing' drinking game, take a shot for ;Sack the manager,
It was the press hyping us up,
Australia played really well, not so much that 'we' were bad
and down the f
king bottle for;There will be an investigation into the loss.
Scotland? Yeah we lost f
k it, we were never going to beat SA a311 said:
Lancaster needs to go. Throughly decent guy but not up to this level of coaching. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but he got this wrong pre six nations not giving talented players enough of a crack to get some caps under their belts.
Any arm chair coach could see that the bench was unbalanced very nieve. It didn't cost us the game in the end but just highlights the issue.
Unfit and out of form players carried. Ben Morgan is a class player but at no point has he looked match fit in this World Cup. The back row has been my main gripe under Lancaster. Lack of carrying and a real 7, I'm not not going to hang Robshaw out to dry as he's been one of the most consistent England players over the last 4 years but a 7 he is not. A solid player but I don't think I'd have him at 6 either just doesn't excel in any particular attribute I'd want to see in a blind side.
Most of the squad should be able to come back in so long as they're chosen on form. Barritt can be binned for good, whoever comes in needs to decide on a style of play and build a team to suit or pick a team with a bit of intelligence to adapt to what's in front of them. Fazlet is suited to a 10 man game and don't think he is the future at 10. Again pick on form but Ford will take this team forward. I wouldn't rule out being second string behind Cipriani or start giving Slade some game time.
Australia tonight showed the value of having something other than a big lump at 12 there are plenty of players kicking about that could do that job for the England side.
I'm pretty gutted England are out, last whinge on it but the group of death should never have happened.
Onwards and upwards anyhow can enjoy the rest of the tournament for what it is now.
What do you mean the group of Death should never have happened?Any arm chair coach could see that the bench was unbalanced very nieve. It didn't cost us the game in the end but just highlights the issue.
Unfit and out of form players carried. Ben Morgan is a class player but at no point has he looked match fit in this World Cup. The back row has been my main gripe under Lancaster. Lack of carrying and a real 7, I'm not not going to hang Robshaw out to dry as he's been one of the most consistent England players over the last 4 years but a 7 he is not. A solid player but I don't think I'd have him at 6 either just doesn't excel in any particular attribute I'd want to see in a blind side.
Most of the squad should be able to come back in so long as they're chosen on form. Barritt can be binned for good, whoever comes in needs to decide on a style of play and build a team to suit or pick a team with a bit of intelligence to adapt to what's in front of them. Fazlet is suited to a 10 man game and don't think he is the future at 10. Again pick on form but Ford will take this team forward. I wouldn't rule out being second string behind Cipriani or start giving Slade some game time.
Australia tonight showed the value of having something other than a big lump at 12 there are plenty of players kicking about that could do that job for the England side.
I'm pretty gutted England are out, last whinge on it but the group of death should never have happened.
Onwards and upwards anyhow can enjoy the rest of the tournament for what it is now.
It's based on rankings so let's say Wales were in the top 8 which side would have been pushed into tier3?
1NZ
2Wales
3Oz
4Ire
5SA
6France
7England
8Pumas
9Scotland
10Fiji
11Samoa
12 Georgia
13 Italy
14 Tonga
15Japan
16Namibia
17uraguay
18USA
19Canada
20 Romania
Logically it would be Scotland how would England have felt about
Oz
eng
Scotland
Fiji
Uraguay
Not that different really
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