Discussion
The whole pad or just the friction material off the pad?
The latter is a definite yes.
As far as the former is concerned, depending how the pads are fixed in the caliper then if the caliper itself is badly worn or the pads are undersize I would say it could be a possible. I have seen pics - on a Land Rover - where the metal of the pad has done a nice job of cutting through the bell of a disc thereby separating the braking area from the axle. If I can remember where I saw that I'll post a link.
I suspect that if the car has been driven & the friction material has worn completely away & into the backing material that it could eventually drop out.
As said, we're going to need a lot more detail - preferably with pics.
ETA I've just remembered. The disc in question was on an L-plate Discovery & it was a rear. The bell looked as though it had been parted off on a lathe. Caliper was excessively worn & the bottom of the pad & backing had been resting on the bell. The other sides caliper wasn't much better. No pics as I actually saw it & didn't have a camera to hand - the owner works for one of my customers.
The latter is a definite yes.
As far as the former is concerned, depending how the pads are fixed in the caliper then if the caliper itself is badly worn or the pads are undersize I would say it could be a possible. I have seen pics - on a Land Rover - where the metal of the pad has done a nice job of cutting through the bell of a disc thereby separating the braking area from the axle. If I can remember where I saw that I'll post a link.
I suspect that if the car has been driven & the friction material has worn completely away & into the backing material that it could eventually drop out.
As said, we're going to need a lot more detail - preferably with pics.
ETA I've just remembered. The disc in question was on an L-plate Discovery & it was a rear. The bell looked as though it had been parted off on a lathe. Caliper was excessively worn & the bottom of the pad & backing had been resting on the bell. The other sides caliper wasn't much better. No pics as I actually saw it & didn't have a camera to hand - the owner works for one of my customers.
Edited by paintman on Thursday 5th June 08:26
Some months ago I had the front Brake pads replaced on my 06 E7.....all ok.
I then at a later date had to take it to the garage because the back Brake shoes were binding, the hand Brake cable was also replaced.
As I drove out of the garage after having the Back Brakes sorted, I went to Brake and the pedal travelled about 30% further down than when I took it in. I phoned the garage back up explaining what had happened as it had taken me by surprise, their retort was to say that I should let them bed in and they will be alright.
A week or so later I had to return to the same garage re another car and mentioned that they still did not feel right, they said the same thing as before.
On Saturday night/Sunday morning I was doing a three point turn and noticed the Brake pedal almost went to the floor, but still managed to stop the cab [Just]. I pulled over and found that my Brake fluid reservoir was empty :shock:. I made my way to the nearest garage to purchase brake fluid and then put it into the reservoir but it made no difference. This meant it was not safe to drive so I made for home.
As I was driving for home I had to Brake, there was a clunk under the right hand side of the vehicle and my brakes failed totally - managing to slow down on gears and handbrake.
I feel that it stems from the Rear Brake job, remembering all the time that the Brake pedal from then on travelled further than when it went in.
Okay the mystery deepens!
I am trying to keep an open mind on this.
I get a phone call from the garage to tell me to come down ASAP, as he the mechanic had never seen anything like it in 40 years - leaving me wondering as to what nasties are in store.
The cab is up on the ramp with both the front wheels off, the mechanic guides my attention to the brake pads/calipers. He claims that when he took it all apart, all that was left on the brake pad issue was the inside pads on both front wheels - no outside pad on either wheel, absolutely nothing, no base,no metal..........nothing but an empty space.
As I said I am trying to keep an open mind........so!
There are no score marks or melting on the discs, there does not appear to be any burn marks through over heating of any kind. However I am wondering is it possible for both lots of outside pads to totally break up/disintegrate, bearing in mind I did hear a bang as the brakes completely went. We also discounted the fact that the pads on either were not fitted as the calipers so I am told would have scored the discs and most certainly made a noise of some descript.
My knowledge on cars is basic, to the level of doing my own service including in the past brake pads - on this matter I am fishing in the dark, which brings me back to can they just disintegrate.
Just to clear up any possible confusion caused by me; the drivers front outside pad missing, the inside pad intact. The passenger front outside pad missing, the inside intact.
I then at a later date had to take it to the garage because the back Brake shoes were binding, the hand Brake cable was also replaced.
As I drove out of the garage after having the Back Brakes sorted, I went to Brake and the pedal travelled about 30% further down than when I took it in. I phoned the garage back up explaining what had happened as it had taken me by surprise, their retort was to say that I should let them bed in and they will be alright.
A week or so later I had to return to the same garage re another car and mentioned that they still did not feel right, they said the same thing as before.
On Saturday night/Sunday morning I was doing a three point turn and noticed the Brake pedal almost went to the floor, but still managed to stop the cab [Just]. I pulled over and found that my Brake fluid reservoir was empty :shock:. I made my way to the nearest garage to purchase brake fluid and then put it into the reservoir but it made no difference. This meant it was not safe to drive so I made for home.
As I was driving for home I had to Brake, there was a clunk under the right hand side of the vehicle and my brakes failed totally - managing to slow down on gears and handbrake.
I feel that it stems from the Rear Brake job, remembering all the time that the Brake pedal from then on travelled further than when it went in.
Okay the mystery deepens!
I am trying to keep an open mind on this.
I get a phone call from the garage to tell me to come down ASAP, as he the mechanic had never seen anything like it in 40 years - leaving me wondering as to what nasties are in store.
The cab is up on the ramp with both the front wheels off, the mechanic guides my attention to the brake pads/calipers. He claims that when he took it all apart, all that was left on the brake pad issue was the inside pads on both front wheels - no outside pad on either wheel, absolutely nothing, no base,no metal..........nothing but an empty space.
As I said I am trying to keep an open mind........so!
There are no score marks or melting on the discs, there does not appear to be any burn marks through over heating of any kind. However I am wondering is it possible for both lots of outside pads to totally break up/disintegrate, bearing in mind I did hear a bang as the brakes completely went. We also discounted the fact that the pads on either were not fitted as the calipers so I am told would have scored the discs and most certainly made a noise of some descript.
My knowledge on cars is basic, to the level of doing my own service including in the past brake pads - on this matter I am fishing in the dark, which brings me back to can they just disintegrate.
Just to clear up any possible confusion caused by me; the drivers front outside pad missing, the inside pad intact. The passenger front outside pad missing, the inside intact.
I wonder if the back brakes haven't been working & the fronts have been doing all the work, thereby accelerating wear to the point that the metal of the pad has been ejected between the disc & caliper body - hence the loud bang & no brakes?
Are the front discs worn below minimum thickness? were they renewed at the same time as the pads?
It's an odd one & not one I think can be resolved on an internet forum as inspection of the vehicle would be required.
Are the front discs worn below minimum thickness? were they renewed at the same time as the pads?
It's an odd one & not one I think can be resolved on an internet forum as inspection of the vehicle would be required.
There are two answers. First obvious answer is no, pads cannot fall out.
However...the other answer is yes, under extreme circumstances it is possible.
But by that stage they could no longer be considered brake pads, as they'd need to be so badly worn there is no brake pad material left, and they have worn so much there is only the metal backing plate....and assuming there are no pin style retainers through these backing plates. Then yes under very extreme wear circumstances what is left could fall out.
The other non-excessive wear option. is pure dung pads. Where at less than worn done interval, the friction material has simply come away from the metal backing plate, again leaving nothing but bare metal.
So under normal, or even bad conditions no a pad should never be able to leave the caliper.
Under totally ridiculous circumstances, yes they could.
However...the other answer is yes, under extreme circumstances it is possible.
But by that stage they could no longer be considered brake pads, as they'd need to be so badly worn there is no brake pad material left, and they have worn so much there is only the metal backing plate....and assuming there are no pin style retainers through these backing plates. Then yes under very extreme wear circumstances what is left could fall out.
The other non-excessive wear option. is pure dung pads. Where at less than worn done interval, the friction material has simply come away from the metal backing plate, again leaving nothing but bare metal.
So under normal, or even bad conditions no a pad should never be able to leave the caliper.
Under totally ridiculous circumstances, yes they could.
Hi, Im no expert but it sounds very doubtful that brake pads would fall out of the calipers. Having fitted my own I just cant see how that would happen unless like already mentioned the pads were completely worn but surely that is an impossibility as they were newly fitted weren't they.
Reading between the lines here I think its more likely that either the servo was damaged or the brake fluid lines became disconnected. Sounds like a dodgy mechanic trying to palm you off with some story to keep you from the truth that poor workmanship was at fault.
But like I say, Im no expert.
Reading between the lines here I think its more likely that either the servo was damaged or the brake fluid lines became disconnected. Sounds like a dodgy mechanic trying to palm you off with some story to keep you from the truth that poor workmanship was at fault.
But like I say, Im no expert.
Sounds like the mechanic just did not do the job properly
If it is a single piston caliper then the only way a pad could be removed is by not doing the slider bolts up properly and the caliper swinging back but I suspect what really happened is the wrong pads fitted
Thoughts
Pads fitted but brakes not tested so when you first hit the brakes all the slack taken up, fluid drops in reservoir
All in all it points to catastrophic failure on mechanics part to do job properly
I would start asking for VOSA to look at your car, if your in the AA ask them to have a look
If it is a single piston caliper then the only way a pad could be removed is by not doing the slider bolts up properly and the caliper swinging back but I suspect what really happened is the wrong pads fitted
Thoughts
Pads fitted but brakes not tested so when you first hit the brakes all the slack taken up, fluid drops in reservoir
All in all it points to catastrophic failure on mechanics part to do job properly
I would start asking for VOSA to look at your car, if your in the AA ask them to have a look
Sorry read the thread again, they only fixed rear shoes, would think auto adjuster needed to be activated by hard press of the foot brake and you did not get pressure as front brakes shot
You mention no fluid and adding fluid did not help
With pads missing perhaps both pistons moved so far that fluid leaked
With a dual brake system done split diagonally others front rear, you may have been lucky and the rears gave you some braking
I still can't see how pads would disappear
You mention no fluid and adding fluid did not help
With pads missing perhaps both pistons moved so far that fluid leaked
With a dual brake system done split diagonally others front rear, you may have been lucky and the rears gave you some braking
I still can't see how pads would disappear
I Have seen pads excessively worn to the stage where the pad backing was operating on the disc, eventually it wore thin enough to exit between disc and caliper, I have never seen it happen on both sides at once plus there would be plenty evidence in the form of extremely scored discs.
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