Islam and the West
Discussion
After the 'Trojan Horse' debacle and other extremist incidents that have made recent world history it has got me thinking and doing a bit of research.
From what I have uncovered on the internet/u-tube is quite shocking in itself and has stated in no uncertain terms that the west and islam are pretty much incompatible. This was based on exerts from the koran and a number of philosophies that islam is not just a religeon but a whole system of control, be it education, business, banking, lifestyle etc etc. This translated, states that it goes against what we in the west consider as our basic rights, bank with who we feel deserve the money, best service etc, gay rights, womens rights, methods of slaughter, freedom of speech, right to protest (peacefully). And the agreement to follow the law, and if not accept the punishment.
So is this the case, is it really never going to work? What needs to change to make it work or do we really believe that it wont, but are to scared to say so?
Edit: Government label all 'incidents' as carried out by extremeists. Is this really the case, or is islam in itself an extremist ideology to the west, therefore something we will never understand or learn to accept within our ideals.
From what I have uncovered on the internet/u-tube is quite shocking in itself and has stated in no uncertain terms that the west and islam are pretty much incompatible. This was based on exerts from the koran and a number of philosophies that islam is not just a religeon but a whole system of control, be it education, business, banking, lifestyle etc etc. This translated, states that it goes against what we in the west consider as our basic rights, bank with who we feel deserve the money, best service etc, gay rights, womens rights, methods of slaughter, freedom of speech, right to protest (peacefully). And the agreement to follow the law, and if not accept the punishment.
So is this the case, is it really never going to work? What needs to change to make it work or do we really believe that it wont, but are to scared to say so?
Edit: Government label all 'incidents' as carried out by extremeists. Is this really the case, or is islam in itself an extremist ideology to the west, therefore something we will never understand or learn to accept within our ideals.
Edited by Four Litre on Monday 9th June 15:22
Four Litre said:
So is this the case, is it really never going to work? What needs to change to make it work
Muslims in the UK need to understand that the laws we have that allow them freedom to practice Islam freely are the same laws that allow me to ridicule Islam, and the same laws that allow them to ridicule my atheism. And when we've finished mocking each other, we shake hands and move on.When they get that, everything will be fine.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
When they get that, everythMuslims in the UK need to understand that the laws we have that allow them freedom to practice Islam freely are the same laws that allow me to ridicule Islam, and the same laws that allow them to ridicule my atheism. And when we've finished mocking each other, we shake hands and move on.
ing will be fine.
could not agree more with that. I spend a lot of time in Greece and when there i abide by their rules, be it legal or social etc and i try to adapt and absorb the way of life, culture and social niceties expected as a result, i get on brilliantly with the lovely folks and when i struggle they help with a smile , knowing i have made the effort to try. ing will be fine.
I'd say the issue is Islam vs anything non-Islam.
The west just happens to fall in to the "anything non-Islam" grouping, along with parts of the far-east for example.
(Any place not in green, in my view from what I know about Islam, is that these parts are in "contradiction" to their beliefs).
The west just happens to fall in to the "anything non-Islam" grouping, along with parts of the far-east for example.
(Any place not in green, in my view from what I know about Islam, is that these parts are in "contradiction" to their beliefs).
That is how it is intended. I'm sure it'll all calm down and blow over in a thousand years or so. All we need to do is leave them to it in their own countries and not bring the fight over here.TwigtheWonderkid said:
Four Litre said:
So is this the case, is it really never going to work? What needs to change to make it work
Muslims in the UK need to understand that the laws we have that allow them freedom to practice Islam freely are the same laws that allow me to ridicule Islam, and the same laws that allow them to ridicule my atheism. And when we've finished mocking each other, we shake hands and move on.When they get that, everything will be fine.
ReallyReallyGood said:
I'm just saying, the entire premise of this thread (the Trojan Horse plot) has not been proved, so this whole discussion seems a bit presumptuous.
I thought it was pretty straightforward personally. he was asking if there is a structural incompatibility between the muslim belief system and our own.I must admit, i have heard from several people (and confirmed by a muslim friend) that it is the stated aim of many in islam to spread islam and uphold its beliefs at all costs. Obviously some take those aims more literally than others. I would be very interested to hear from those more knowledgeable than i on the subject.
Is there, for example, anything in the koran that would preclude integration and tolerance of other belief systems? from the ground, it sure as hell seems like it.....
Could it just be that they are much better at speaking as one voice and complaining hard and long about ANYTHING that they find offensive (which appears to be everything)
gpo746 said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Four Litre said:
So is this the case, is it really never going to work? What needs to change to make it work
Muslims in the UK need to understand that the laws we have that allow them freedom to practice Islam freely are the same laws that allow me to ridicule Islam, and the same laws that allow them to ridicule my atheism. And when we've finished mocking each other, we shake hands and move on.When they get that, everything will be fine.
If a 100,000 did so everyday, it could work.
In reality, the genie is out and staying out and granting the wishes of others of the same faith.
Well, far more trouble has been caused in this country by non-Muslim indigenous types than by followers of Islam to date.
I would suspect that once the filthy and corrupting ways of the West take their toll on the younger Muslim generation(s), then the elders may then start to pull their hair out by the beardful.
There is no way that I can see a Sharia-type imposition placed on the filthy western ways that we hold so dear, which would not result in a swift and liberal knee to the groin of those who would propose such a regime.
Live and let live - cuts both ways until such policy meets with opposition, and of course within the acceptable norms of our society!
I would suspect that once the filthy and corrupting ways of the West take their toll on the younger Muslim generation(s), then the elders may then start to pull their hair out by the beardful.
There is no way that I can see a Sharia-type imposition placed on the filthy western ways that we hold so dear, which would not result in a swift and liberal knee to the groin of those who would propose such a regime.
Live and let live - cuts both ways until such policy meets with opposition, and of course within the acceptable norms of our society!
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff