The New AMG Engine Apparently The New Aston V8??

The New AMG Engine Apparently The New Aston V8??

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Discussion

F1NDW

359 posts

150 months

Sunday 23rd November 2014
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Mercedes have taken every pole this season so what's the problem?
In an Aston, Yeee ha!

Speedraser

1,656 posts

182 months

Monday 24th November 2014
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Because F1 priorities are so similar to those of a road car confused And those F1 engines sound AWESOME. Oh, wait a minute...

Benz chassis too then? Renault engines won for the last several years -- so we should have had Renault engines in Aston Martins? And Red Bull chassis under the Aston skin, right? Until now, of course, when they should change to M-B. Scary thought, since I fear that could happen.

If winning F1 is so important for your road car, just buy a Mercedes.

WayneB

208 posts

225 months

Tuesday 25th November 2014
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If I wanted to buy a car with a Mercedes Benz Powerplant and engineering , I would buy a Mercedes Benz.

I don't get all this excitement in this thread on AM having to resort to using this particular powerplant, it seems a large step back in the exclusivity and prestige of the marque, the end of the days of AM as a total automobile designer and manufacturer.

Guess the Aston Martin slogan will not be Power-Beauty-Soul anymores , just Aston Martin AMG Power.

Jon39

12,782 posts

142 months

Tuesday 25th November 2014
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Speedraser said:
Because F1 priorities are so similar to those of a road car confused And those F1 engines sound AWESOME. Oh, wait a minute...

Benz chassis too then? Renault engines won for the last several years -- so we should have had Renault engines in Aston Martins? And Red Bull chassis under the Aston skin, right? Until now, of course, when they should change to M-B. Scary thought, since I fear that could happen.

If winning F1 is so important for your road car, just buy a Mercedes.

Perhaps we should also remember, the Championship winning cars are built in the U.K., and ( I think I am correct ) prior to being called Mercedes, were Brawn, British American Racing, and Tyrell.

Have we discussed the architecture of the AMG GT?

AMG and Mercedes are very eager to say how proud they are, of 'their' design for the new car.
Modular alloy extrusions and castings chassis frame.
Front mid-engine.
Torque tube with carbon fibre prop shaft.
Rear mounted gearbox and transaxle.

Sounds exactly like a 2003 and 2005 Aston Martin to me.





Speedraser

1,656 posts

182 months

Tuesday 25th November 2014
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WayneB said:
If I wanted to buy a car with a Mercedes Benz Powerplant and engineering , I would buy a Mercedes Benz.

I don't get all this excitement in this thread on AM having to resort to using this particular powerplant, it seems a large step back in the exclusivity and prestige of the marque, the end of the days of AM as a total automobile designer and manufacturer.

Guess the Aston Martin slogan will not be Power-Beauty-Soul anymores , just Aston Martin AMG Power.
Exactly.

Jon39, +1.

Barnezy

348 posts

114 months

Tuesday 25th November 2014
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Jon39 said:

Perhaps we should also remember, the Championship winning cars are built in the U.K., and ( I think I am correct ) prior to being called Mercedes, were Brawn, British American Racing, and Tyrell.

Have we discussed the architecture of the AMG GT?

AMG and Mercedes are very eager to say how proud they are, of 'their' design for the new car.
Modular alloy extrusions and castings chassis frame.
Front mid-engine.
Torque tube with carbon fibre prop shaft.
Rear mounted gearbox and transaxle.

Sounds exactly like a 2003 and 2005 Aston Martin to me.
That's right!

I bought an Aston because I wanted something unique from everything else. Unfortunately I believe myself and like minded people are a minority, and in fact people value consistency more/like to know what they're getting.

Aston will go ahead with the AMG model as they are in business to make profits, not deliver what a relatively small customer base want. If they could sell as many Vantage's as Porsche sell 911's, don't you think they would do it, and I suspect this partnership is the key to that ever happening.

Jon39

12,782 posts

142 months

Tuesday 25th November 2014
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Barnezy said:
Aston will go ahead with the AMG model as they are in business to make profits . . .
Well that will be a new experience for the Company. In 100 years, I think the fingers on one hand would be enough to count net profitable years. Remember now, there is the debt to contend with.

With the 2 door sports car sales at Porsche being about 18,000 pa., AML probably see themselves in a more specialist market. Perhaps closer to the Ferrari business model, where production is now limited to 7,000 pa., even though the demand is for more. That has resulted in good profits and (I think) held up prices of their new and used cars. A good position to be in, but history shows how quickly things can change, in the sports car manufacturing sector.

You will know that AML production peaked at about 7,300 cars in 2007. Sudden economic changes then led to redundancies and annual production under 4,000.


Speedraser

1,656 posts

182 months

Tuesday 25th November 2014
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Jon39 said:
... With the 2 door sports car sales at Porsche being about 18,000 pa., AML probably see themselves in a more specialist market. Perhaps closer to the Ferrari business model, where production is now limited to 7,000 pa., even though the demand is for more. That has resulted in good profits and (I think) held up prices of their new and used cars.
di Montezemolo was right. Marchionne is wrong.

Barnezy

348 posts

114 months

Tuesday 25th November 2014
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Jon39 said:
Well that will be a new experience for the Company. In 100 years, I think the fingers on one hand would be enough to count net profitable years. Remember now, there is the debt to contend with.

With the 2 door sports car sales at Porsche being about 18,000 pa., AML probably see themselves in a more specialist market. Perhaps closer to the Ferrari business model, where production is now limited to 7,000 pa., even though the demand is for more. That has resulted in good profits and (I think) held up prices of their new and used cars. A good position to be in, but history shows how quickly things can change, in the sports car manufacturing sector.

You will know that AML production peaked at about 7,300 cars in 2007. Sudden economic changes then led to redundancies and annual production under 4,000.
Are you talking UK figures? Porsche sold >160,000 cars last year and only 10 years before they were selling 19,000. They were a money losing machine also, and needed the Boxer to save them. Now they are the highest margin making part of VW. Surely AM shareholders look at that "business" transformation, and think what if? Has it been good for the Porsche fans? Some prefer the new cars, some prefer the originals, hence the ridiculous prices they are now selling for. But the reality is there aren't many brands with the presence of Aston Martin and if I were a shareholder, I'd be thinking about how we cash in on that! Maybe AMG is the first step.

Jon39

12,782 posts

142 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
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Barnezy said:
Are you talking UK figures? Porsche sold >160,000 cars last year . . . .

Sorry. I now see that the figures I used, are headed North American Sales.

Gosh, 160,000 pa. No wonder we now see so many on the road, and consequently they are not a special sight anymore.








Impasse

15,099 posts

240 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
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At the moment I'm trundling around in a car with a Lotus chassis, a Ford engine, Volvo switchgear and with assorted Jaguar lumpy bits scattered under the bonnet.
A Mercedes engine? Plus ça change.

Neil1300r

5,487 posts

177 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
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Impasse said:
At the moment I'm trundling around in a car with a Lotus chassis, a Ford engine, Volvo switchgear and with assorted Jaguar lumpy bits scattered under the bonnet.
A Mercedes engine? Plus ça change.
If you use that 'logic' then you are already driving around with Mercedes Benz engine - as they invented the first production combustion engine in a car(ridgeless)vehicle. Everything thing since has just been incremental development.

BravoV8V

1,858 posts

173 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
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Jon39 said:
Gosh, 160,000 pa. No wonder we now see so many on the road, and consequently they are not a special sight anymore.
IIRC, the majority of those sales are either the 4WD (Cayenne/Macan) or 4 seater (Panamera). This is a 'bandwagon' that AM seems to be resisting jumping on, for some reason.

Ken Figenus

5,680 posts

116 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
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Here's a tribute to the resilient Merc V12 - music to the ears of any pre 2010 AM V12 owner with a tappy little end at 25k...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhX0Y2wQfqo

I prefer to see the whole - not just the stamp on a block. They have to be profitable and they have to get better 'boxes...

Impasse

15,099 posts

240 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
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Neil1300r said:
If you use that 'logic' then you are already driving around with Mercedes Benz engine - as they invented the first production combustion engine in a car(ridgeless)vehicle. Everything thing since has just been incremental development.
Hardly requires inverted commas around the word logic when the respective maker's stamp is on most of the parts which make up my car. Gaydon themselves manufactured very little of my vehicle, they just nailed it together from a collection of supplied bits - with varying degrees of permanent success.

The Mercedes tie-up just means the lorry which delivers to the factory is hauling differently branded parts. But the Aston Martin factor will still be there in the finished article, so the important things like rattling windows, failing hood mechs and leaky rear lights will stay true to the marque. What more could an AM fan wish for?

Neil1300r

5,487 posts

177 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
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Impasse said:
Hardly requires inverted commas around the word logic when the respective maker's stamp is on most of the parts which make up my car. Gaydon themselves manufactured very little of my vehicle, they just nailed it together from a collection of supplied bits - with varying degrees of permanent success.

The Mercedes tie-up just means the lorry which delivers to the factory is hauling differently branded parts. But the Aston Martin factor will still be there in the finished article, so the important things like rattling windows, failing hood mechs and leaky rear lights will stay true to the marque. What more could an AM fan wish for?
Because you don't have a Ford engine - its an Aston engine, outsourced to a dedicated Ford plant to manufacture to an Aston design. Its not used in any other manufacturers car.

Its the same as an iphone - its not actually made by Apple, its to an Apple design with the manufacturer outsourced to other companies.

Impasse

15,099 posts

240 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
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Keep living the dream!

outofstepuk

1,242 posts

151 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
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Here's how I look at it.

I have an V12V I love.

If they bring out another car in the future that appeals more, great I'll buy one if I can afford it.

If they don't, I'll keep the one I have.

More important things to worry about than a future product we actually have zero facts about.



Zod

35,295 posts

257 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
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outofstepuk said:
Here's how I look at it.

I have an V12V I love.

If they bring out another car in the future that appeals more, great I'll buy one if I can afford it.

If they don't, I'll keep the one I have.

More important things to worry about than a future product we actually have zero facts about.
Ditto.

Jon39

12,782 posts

142 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
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Impasse said:
But the Aston Martin factor will still be there in the finished article, so the important things like rattling windows, failing hood mechs and leaky rear lights will stay true to the marque.
What more could an AM fan wish for?

Not sure whether this is humour, or you are upset.

My car has been a wonderful delight and so far completely free of faults, so not all bad.