Have we become a nation of cycle haters?
Discussion
monamimate said:
Where are these figures taken from?
Daily empirical evidence does not support such a figure...
Here you go: https://beyondthekerb.wordpress.com/laws-whos-brea...Daily empirical evidence does not support such a figure...
OpulentBob said:
Most people commenting on this thread have no idea what's involved. In this pompous city (Cambridge), you get called out constantly by "experts" who have ridden a bike twice, and now think they have got an engineering degree... "Hello, I've done some research and now I think your design is wrong. My research? Yes, ten minutes on google, and a referral from a friend of a friend who probably doesn't exist, and a photo of what they've done in Anderlecht." (facepalm and headbutt the wall)
Try putting out a consultation suggesting the construction of an off-road (or on-road) cycle way. Do it, then sit back and wait for the phone calls from the lycra warriors telling you that you're targetting them, deliberately and personally, and you obviously want their kids to die. It doesnt matter WHAT you suggest, it's never enough. And then you get the drivers, pedestrians and other non-cyclists who (rightfully, IMO) complain about the amount of money that goes towards the 2-wheelers. Even the 20's Plenty campaign has been infiltrated by the CTC/right to cycle lobbyists, who strangely want 20mph blanket limits across entire cities, but are adamant that the limit will NOT apply to them. Along, apparantly, with red lights, give way junctions, ped crossings etc. It's an easy 50/50 split here on how many cyclists obey the rules and how many don't. Then you get a 16 year old girl wiped out, riding on the wrong side of the road, at night without lights, and everyone points the finger at the infrastructure. Not the fact the girl was a f
king idiot incapable of riding safely on a public road.
Cyclists don't do anything to garner sympathy. Most people here want cycling law enforced many times more regularly than it actually is. I've actually seen people point and laugh when a cyclist has been punted off when he rides out without stopping, or runs a red light in front of a taxi etc.
Here's a suggestion as to why you might want to wind your neck in a little, as you are coming across as a tremendous douchebag at the moment.Try putting out a consultation suggesting the construction of an off-road (or on-road) cycle way. Do it, then sit back and wait for the phone calls from the lycra warriors telling you that you're targetting them, deliberately and personally, and you obviously want their kids to die. It doesnt matter WHAT you suggest, it's never enough. And then you get the drivers, pedestrians and other non-cyclists who (rightfully, IMO) complain about the amount of money that goes towards the 2-wheelers. Even the 20's Plenty campaign has been infiltrated by the CTC/right to cycle lobbyists, who strangely want 20mph blanket limits across entire cities, but are adamant that the limit will NOT apply to them. Along, apparantly, with red lights, give way junctions, ped crossings etc. It's an easy 50/50 split here on how many cyclists obey the rules and how many don't. Then you get a 16 year old girl wiped out, riding on the wrong side of the road, at night without lights, and everyone points the finger at the infrastructure. Not the fact the girl was a f
king idiot incapable of riding safely on a public road.Cyclists don't do anything to garner sympathy. Most people here want cycling law enforced many times more regularly than it actually is. I've actually seen people point and laugh when a cyclist has been punted off when he rides out without stopping, or runs a red light in front of a taxi etc.
The lorry driver who killed cyclist Catriona Patel was drunk and chatting on a mobile.
The lorry driver who killed Eilidh Cairns had faulty eyesight (the police didn't even bother to discover this until the same driver killed another woman.)
The lorry driver who killed cyclist Brian Dorling turned across his path.
The lorry driver who killed cyclist Svetlana Tereschenko was in an unsafe lorry, failing to indicate and chatting on a mobile. The police decided to charge him with..nothing.
The lorry driver who killed cyclist Deep Lee failed to notice her and smashed into her from behind.
The lorry driver that killed cyclist Andrew McNicoll failed to notice him and side swiped him.
The lorry driver that killed cyclist Daniel Cox was in a truck which did not have the correct mirrors and whose driver had pulled into the ASL on a red light and was indicating in the opposite direction to which he turned.
Dammit said:
The lorry driver who killed cyclist Deep Lee failed to notice her and smashed into her from behind.
This is such an easy thing to happen, especially if somebody has been driving all day. It can be something as daft as a sneeze that gets a cyclist wiped out and of course nobody wants that but cyclists in my opinion are riding more and more with an "I own this bit of road it mine" attitude, they take some sort of pride in it and woe betide any motorist that encroaches on that little bit of space. The thing is that it does rely on the motorist knowing you're there, it relies on the motorist not sneezing or not being distracted by a a multitude of different things which some will be perfectly legal. That little bit of pride in a little bit of tarmac could cost that cyclist his/her life. Cyclists in my opinion need to ride more defensively even more submissively maybe imagining they are invisible, of course they shouldn't need to but we don't live in a perfect world, we just want to carry on living and it could be the difference between life and death.Just my 2p
as you were.
NoNeed said:
This is such an easy thing to happen, especially if somebody has been driving all day. It can be something as daft as a sneeze that gets a cyclist wiped out and of course nobody wants that but cyclists in my opinion are riding more and more with an "I own this bit of road it mine" attitude, they take some sort of pride in it and woe betide any motorist that encroaches on that little bit of space. The thing is that it does rely on the motorist knowing you're there, it relies on the motorist not sneezing or not being distracted by a a multitude of different things which some will be perfectly legal. That little bit of pride in a little bit of tarmac could cost that cyclist his/her life. Cyclists in my opinion need to ride more defensively even more submissively maybe imagining they are invisible, of course they shouldn't need to but we don't live in a perfect world, we just want to carry on living and it could be the difference between life and death.
Just my 2p
as you were.
I think we could achieve a greater difference between life and death if we chucked some of these drivers in prison and threw away the key. Just my 2p
as you were.
NoNeed said:
This is such an easy thing to happen, especially if somebody has been driving all day. It can be something as daft as a sneeze that gets a cyclist wiped out and of course nobody wants that but cyclists in my opinion are riding more and more with an "I own this bit of road it mine" attitude, they take some sort of pride in it and woe betide any motorist that encroaches on that little bit of space. The thing is that it does rely on the motorist knowing you're there, it relies on the motorist not sneezing or not being distracted by a a multitude of different things which some will be perfectly legal. That little bit of pride in a little bit of tarmac could cost that cyclist his/her life. Cyclists in my opinion need to ride more defensively even more submissively maybe imagining they are invisible, of course they shouldn't need to but we don't live in a perfect world, we just want to carry on living and it could be the difference between life and death.
Just my 2p
as you were.
Just to reinforce what has already been said, you're an idiot.Just my 2p
as you were.
Cyclists are often forced to ride primary, or 'owning the road' as you put it, to prevent impatient idiots trying to overtake when it is safe not to. If you ride close to the gutter it gives you no options if somebody passes too close or you hit a pothole, wobble and fall off. I just posted this video on another thread, it was filmed in Hungary but it sums up why cyclists ride well away from the gutter.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlHQXLI8iiM
If a driver sneezes and kills a cyclist, it's not a case of 'oh dear well that was unfortunate' it's negligence, you wouldn't expect your airline pilot flying you off to your holidays to be so blasé about his control of the aircraft so why is it excepted by a large portion of the driving community that mistakes happen. Mistakes don't happen, it's all very well pointing at cyclists saying 'I see you lot all the time, riding too fast, going through red lights...' however if they make a mistake it usually ends up with them just hurting themselves. If a car or bus make a mistake then people get squashed.
NoNeed said:
Thank you
You're welcome. However, you shouldn't feel too bad - yes, your apologist, self-serving, contradiction filled opinion is total drivel, and an insult to the cyclists killed by negligent drivers - but, just like a stopped clock you are useful, just not twice a day.Here's your once a day use- you are (and this is horrifying but sadly true) basically demographically neutral, your lack of any original thought puts you firmly into the majority, which is why we see conviction rates for motorists who kill cyclists free-falling at the moment.
Here's a clue as to why you are wrong- it's NOT ok to kill someone because you sneezed.
You are also a great example of why drink driving had to go from a trial to an "if you exceed this level you are guilty', before that happened and the verdict was court-based people kept getting off due to the "there but for the grace of God go I" issue.
Your final use is to show why we need strict liability in order to actually get convictions for negligent, killer drivers.
Dammit said:
NoNeed said:
Thank you
You're welcome. However, you shouldn't feel too bad - yes, your apologist, self-serving, contradiction filled opinion is total drivel, and an insult to the cyclists killed by negligent drivers - but, just like a stopped clock you are useful, just not twice a day.Here's your once a day use- you are (and this is horrifying but sadly true) basically demographically neutral, your lack of any original thought puts you firmly into the majority, which is why we see conviction rates for motorists who kill cyclists free-falling at the moment.
Here's a clue as to why you are wrong- it's NOT ok to kill someone because you sneezed.
You are also a great example of why drink driving had to go from a trial to an "if you exceed this level you are guilty', before that happened and the verdict was court-based people kept getting off due to the "there but for the grace of God go I" issue.
Your final use is to show why we need strict liability in order to actually get convictions for negligent, killer drivers.
There will be those that willfully took a risk maybe by drinking or using a phone that deserve to be made to understand the full extent of the risk they took and lost, they though will not be the majority, the majority are normal people doing normal things right up to the point it went wrong, maybe they had the window open and heard a scream or witness an accident on the other carriageway which took their attention for a second and like I said before maybe they sneezed, there could be many reasons for a distraction. to say that only motorists should be aware of these things misses the point I was making that cyclist should ride knowing it could happen and being more aware rather than having this growing anti car attitude and concentrating on owning the road.
Yes I'm an idiot, I cycled to work for more than 3 years and lived to tell the tale.
Christ.
Ok, try this - if we are waking toward one another on the pavement, and I walk into you because I'm not paying attention, is that ok?
What If I'm in a car and you're in a car?
How about if I'm in a car and you're on foot?
Finally, if in all the above cases it's my fault, why would it suddenly not be my fault if you are on a bike and I'm in a car?
Ok, try this - if we are waking toward one another on the pavement, and I walk into you because I'm not paying attention, is that ok?
What If I'm in a car and you're in a car?
How about if I'm in a car and you're on foot?
Finally, if in all the above cases it's my fault, why would it suddenly not be my fault if you are on a bike and I'm in a car?
Dammit said:
Ok, try this - if we are waking toward one another on the pavement, and I walk into you because I'm not paying attention, is that ok?
Wouldn't we both need to be not paying attention for that to happen?But it can and does happen, would you want somebodies life destroyed if it did?
To your first point- stop blaming the victim.
To your second- lets be clear here, you are referring not to the victim, but to the person not paying attention?
Then yes, absolutely, their "momentary inattention" should result in a life time driving ban and custodial sentence, and if that ruins there life then so be it.
They should have paid attention to what they were doing- you really have to grasp this, you have a responsibility when you drive to pay attention to what you are doing.
Blaming the person you hit because you were staring at a sign in a bus shelter is not on, it's YOUR FAULT, not the dead cyclist.
To your second- lets be clear here, you are referring not to the victim, but to the person not paying attention?
Then yes, absolutely, their "momentary inattention" should result in a life time driving ban and custodial sentence, and if that ruins there life then so be it.
They should have paid attention to what they were doing- you really have to grasp this, you have a responsibility when you drive to pay attention to what you are doing.
Blaming the person you hit because you were staring at a sign in a bus shelter is not on, it's YOUR FAULT, not the dead cyclist.
Dammit said:
To your first point- stop blaming the victim.
To your second- lets be clear here, you are referring not to the victim, but to the person not paying attention?
Then yes, absolutely, their "momentary inattention" should result in a life time driving ban and custodial sentence, and if that ruins there life then so be it.
They should have paid attention to what they were doing- you really have to grasp this, you have a responsibility when you drive to pay attention to what you are doing.
Blaming the person you hit because you were staring at a sign in a bus shelter is not on, it's YOUR FAULT, not the dead cyclist.
So you have never changed a CD or radio station while driving?To your second- lets be clear here, you are referring not to the victim, but to the person not paying attention?
Then yes, absolutely, their "momentary inattention" should result in a life time driving ban and custodial sentence, and if that ruins there life then so be it.
They should have paid attention to what they were doing- you really have to grasp this, you have a responsibility when you drive to pay attention to what you are doing.
Blaming the person you hit because you were staring at a sign in a bus shelter is not on, it's YOUR FAULT, not the dead cyclist.
NoNeed said:
Wouldn't we both need to be not paying attention for that to happen?
But it can and does happen, would you want somebodies life destroyed if it did?
What about the lives that are destroyed by that momentary lapse of concentration? If you were left shattered and broken, unable to work how would you feel if the person who did it got off more or less scot free. You'd be a little more than peeved I guess. It happened to me, the guy who crushed my leg didn't even lose his job, I had a P45 a few days after the accident as it was clear I wasn't going back to work in a hurry. If you're in charge of an object, capable of life altering injuries be that a forklift truck, car, boat, aircraft, gun, gas supply etc then you better make damn sure you do don't let your attention drift else you could kill yourself or worse, somebody else all for the sake of saving a few seconds, showing off or just thinking about something other than the task in hand.But it can and does happen, would you want somebodies life destroyed if it did?
Dammit said:
Put another way, as you have a problem in this area - if a lady was wearing a short skirt that doesn't mean you are let off raping her.
That has nothing to do with it as the act was knowingly committed.we are talking about accidents and as far as I am aware people don't go out to kill a cyclist.
NoNeed said:
That has nothing to do with it as the act was knowingly committed.
we are talking about accidents and as far as I am aware people don't go out to kill a cyclist.
Oh, well that's OK then- as long as its incompetence rather than malice then they can kill as many as they want. we are talking about accidents and as far as I am aware people don't go out to kill a cyclist.
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