Have we become a nation of cycle haters?
Discussion
I thought I might add some of my recent experiences with other people's perception of cyclists....
I'm a long time on-off-on-off (mostly off if I'm honest
) cyclist.
From my very first few years old, when I was given my first bicycle, at about 4 years old, which I still remember, through to now...despite not really cycling a huge amount for the last 10 years or so, I still love and appreciate bikes in all forms.
The peak of my cycling was at about 15 years ago, when I used mostly mountain bikes very regularly for training - in between racing full-sized 1,000cc motorbikes. Cycling gave me the perfect combination of fitness and balance training to race motorbikes.
These days, I haven't ridden a bicycle for about 2 years now. However, I still think they're great - and as an engineering nerd, I can't believe how cool some of the latest gear is now. I love looking at modern stuff - it's still essentially a diamond-shaped frame with a wheel at each end...but with Formula-One car style technology now employed in the construction. I mean...anyone who is a petrolhead MUST love how modern bikes are built now, no???
I went to Goodwood FOS recently - and saw McLaren's carbon fibre time-trial bike on their stand. I spent ages looking at it - at the exquisite construction, at the modern take on an old, classic design - the complexity of the build that involved state-of-the-art materials...but also combined with the single-minded simplicity of the way it was built. It was a lovely thing to look at - I got the same enjoyment looking at this, as when I look over a monstrously expensive supercar!
Anyway - yes, I can see and recognise, how many more bikes there are on the roads lately. Not just in the cities, but indeed everywhere. And ok - as a driver, I do occasionally have to slow down / sit behind a bicycle - whether it's a MAMIL or just someone commuting. However - as I am in a car, which uses fuel to effortlessly accelerate from a standing start, and indeed any speed - then on the occasions when I have to slow down and then wait to pass a cyclist in a considerate fashion - well, it does not cost me as a driver, in a comfortable cabin, any more effort than when I am driving at any speed.
Doesn't matter how fast or slow I am going in the car - I am still calmly and comfortably sitting in my quiet, air-conditioned luxury space! So if I have to slow down for 20 seconds of my journey for a cyclist - then no worries? It doesn't require me expending any more energy or stress to do so!
The 2012 Olympics, and other sporting events since, including the Commonwealth games, have surely driven more and more people to take up road cycling. These people are spending a fortune at local bike shops in the UK - helping to ensure the survival of small British bicycle-shop businesses, who in turn pay and employ a great deal of staff. Most of whom are also die-hard bike enthusiasts, whose specialist knowledge and expertise is invaluable, for most punters who visit these shops? This is something that we are lucky to have, and shouldn't take for granted - let's not sell another niche of skills in this country down the river, never to be seen again...
Then secondary to the support of our bicycle shops - we have the unarguable benefit of people taking up cycling which is helping, in a small but not insignificant way, to engage and keep people interested in a sporting pursuit which results in a hugely increased level of fitness and reduced obesity, that also might influence their immediate families and friends too, or even a casual public onlooker - that they might also take up the sport, increase their fitness and reduce their morbity, in order to reduce the burden on the NHS, health services and the cost of the early onset of obesity-related diseases. Surely, in these times of increased pressure on the NHS, this is a completely good thing?
Finally - we were graced with an incredibly good result for cyclists at the 2012 Olympics, the TDF, and it seems, at the latest Commonwealth Games. However, for every Chris Hoy, Mark Cavendish, Bradley Wiggins and even Sarah Storey who gain success - we require a fresh, new youngster somewhere in the country, to be inspired and begin to dedicate their lives to training themselves to replace these sporting heroes in 5, 10 and 20 years' time.
I feel that these youngsters are probably inspired by what they see on the TV, but also what they see out on the local roads, in real life. If they see many people making a life-choice to happily cycle on our roads, then I am sure that the youngsters will be happier to follow that trend, and continue our sporting success.
To finish my rant / speech / essay (!) I thought I might tell you all about the occasional perception of cyclists, from some professional people I am with, that I often find strange.
I am a student Paramedic, and hence spend most of my life out on Emergency Ambulances currently. It amazes, and sometimes irritates me, how the experienced, professional healthcare registrant who is driving an Ambo to / from an Emergency, speaks about and treats cyclists that arrive in front of us on a Blue Light run.
I should say that this is the exception rather than the norm - it's not often....but it does happen, and when it does, I get the slight hump, and say something!
So, we're haring down a road, blues and twos going, and come up behind a cyclist. Cyclist cannot fail to hear our siren, so usually without exception, either rides completely out of our way by mounting the pavement - or if that's not possible because there is no pavement - will just stop.
If they do stop and there is nowhere for them to go - then that's that, there is nowhere for them to go, simple.
But obviously then they are a wee bit in the way - so the Ambo driver might have to slow right down in order to execute a safe pass. Often, the driver might mutter 'bloody f
king cyclists! Always in the way!'
I always find such an utterance a little strange at best, and totally contrary to what we are trying to achieve as healthcare professionals at worst. So I am not shy in countering such an utterance with something like 'hey, hey - chill out can you? He has as much right to use the road as we do - and he had nowhere else to go, did he? And anyway - he has the choice to either be a fat, unfit couch potato, making himself obese and unhealthy - and hence becoming one of our regular callers - or, as he obviously HAS chosen - to transport himself on a commute or personal journey in the best way possible regarding both his health and his impact on the planet's natural resources...so let's cut him some slack, yeah?!'
They normally then concede that I'm right, and the cyclist was actually 'ok!'
But I do also see some pretty unsavoury behaviour and treatment of cyclists by a lot of other road-users. And I just don't understand why?
I guess it is probably a result of our 'instant-gratification, me-me-me society' that we now have to live in. It's sad to see the anger and intolerance that some people now show - especially to cyclists, and especially with what cycling is positively providing and promoting?
Ah well. C'est la vie, as they say.
I'm a long time on-off-on-off (mostly off if I'm honest
) cyclist.From my very first few years old, when I was given my first bicycle, at about 4 years old, which I still remember, through to now...despite not really cycling a huge amount for the last 10 years or so, I still love and appreciate bikes in all forms.
The peak of my cycling was at about 15 years ago, when I used mostly mountain bikes very regularly for training - in between racing full-sized 1,000cc motorbikes. Cycling gave me the perfect combination of fitness and balance training to race motorbikes.
These days, I haven't ridden a bicycle for about 2 years now. However, I still think they're great - and as an engineering nerd, I can't believe how cool some of the latest gear is now. I love looking at modern stuff - it's still essentially a diamond-shaped frame with a wheel at each end...but with Formula-One car style technology now employed in the construction. I mean...anyone who is a petrolhead MUST love how modern bikes are built now, no???
I went to Goodwood FOS recently - and saw McLaren's carbon fibre time-trial bike on their stand. I spent ages looking at it - at the exquisite construction, at the modern take on an old, classic design - the complexity of the build that involved state-of-the-art materials...but also combined with the single-minded simplicity of the way it was built. It was a lovely thing to look at - I got the same enjoyment looking at this, as when I look over a monstrously expensive supercar!
Anyway - yes, I can see and recognise, how many more bikes there are on the roads lately. Not just in the cities, but indeed everywhere. And ok - as a driver, I do occasionally have to slow down / sit behind a bicycle - whether it's a MAMIL or just someone commuting. However - as I am in a car, which uses fuel to effortlessly accelerate from a standing start, and indeed any speed - then on the occasions when I have to slow down and then wait to pass a cyclist in a considerate fashion - well, it does not cost me as a driver, in a comfortable cabin, any more effort than when I am driving at any speed.
Doesn't matter how fast or slow I am going in the car - I am still calmly and comfortably sitting in my quiet, air-conditioned luxury space! So if I have to slow down for 20 seconds of my journey for a cyclist - then no worries? It doesn't require me expending any more energy or stress to do so!
The 2012 Olympics, and other sporting events since, including the Commonwealth games, have surely driven more and more people to take up road cycling. These people are spending a fortune at local bike shops in the UK - helping to ensure the survival of small British bicycle-shop businesses, who in turn pay and employ a great deal of staff. Most of whom are also die-hard bike enthusiasts, whose specialist knowledge and expertise is invaluable, for most punters who visit these shops? This is something that we are lucky to have, and shouldn't take for granted - let's not sell another niche of skills in this country down the river, never to be seen again...
Then secondary to the support of our bicycle shops - we have the unarguable benefit of people taking up cycling which is helping, in a small but not insignificant way, to engage and keep people interested in a sporting pursuit which results in a hugely increased level of fitness and reduced obesity, that also might influence their immediate families and friends too, or even a casual public onlooker - that they might also take up the sport, increase their fitness and reduce their morbity, in order to reduce the burden on the NHS, health services and the cost of the early onset of obesity-related diseases. Surely, in these times of increased pressure on the NHS, this is a completely good thing?
Finally - we were graced with an incredibly good result for cyclists at the 2012 Olympics, the TDF, and it seems, at the latest Commonwealth Games. However, for every Chris Hoy, Mark Cavendish, Bradley Wiggins and even Sarah Storey who gain success - we require a fresh, new youngster somewhere in the country, to be inspired and begin to dedicate their lives to training themselves to replace these sporting heroes in 5, 10 and 20 years' time.
I feel that these youngsters are probably inspired by what they see on the TV, but also what they see out on the local roads, in real life. If they see many people making a life-choice to happily cycle on our roads, then I am sure that the youngsters will be happier to follow that trend, and continue our sporting success.
To finish my rant / speech / essay (!) I thought I might tell you all about the occasional perception of cyclists, from some professional people I am with, that I often find strange.
I am a student Paramedic, and hence spend most of my life out on Emergency Ambulances currently. It amazes, and sometimes irritates me, how the experienced, professional healthcare registrant who is driving an Ambo to / from an Emergency, speaks about and treats cyclists that arrive in front of us on a Blue Light run.
I should say that this is the exception rather than the norm - it's not often....but it does happen, and when it does, I get the slight hump, and say something!
So, we're haring down a road, blues and twos going, and come up behind a cyclist. Cyclist cannot fail to hear our siren, so usually without exception, either rides completely out of our way by mounting the pavement - or if that's not possible because there is no pavement - will just stop.
If they do stop and there is nowhere for them to go - then that's that, there is nowhere for them to go, simple.
But obviously then they are a wee bit in the way - so the Ambo driver might have to slow right down in order to execute a safe pass. Often, the driver might mutter 'bloody f
king cyclists! Always in the way!'I always find such an utterance a little strange at best, and totally contrary to what we are trying to achieve as healthcare professionals at worst. So I am not shy in countering such an utterance with something like 'hey, hey - chill out can you? He has as much right to use the road as we do - and he had nowhere else to go, did he? And anyway - he has the choice to either be a fat, unfit couch potato, making himself obese and unhealthy - and hence becoming one of our regular callers - or, as he obviously HAS chosen - to transport himself on a commute or personal journey in the best way possible regarding both his health and his impact on the planet's natural resources...so let's cut him some slack, yeah?!'
They normally then concede that I'm right, and the cyclist was actually 'ok!'
But I do also see some pretty unsavoury behaviour and treatment of cyclists by a lot of other road-users. And I just don't understand why?
I guess it is probably a result of our 'instant-gratification, me-me-me society' that we now have to live in. It's sad to see the anger and intolerance that some people now show - especially to cyclists, and especially with what cycling is positively providing and promoting?
Ah well. C'est la vie, as they say.
heebeegeetee said:
NoNeed said:
So you have seen me drive? You are qualified to assess my driving that you have seen?
Anyone who reckons that people could be killed by so much as a sneeze... must be one heck of a st driver if they cut people that close and still think it would be an accident if they hit them.The sneeze was list as one of many possibly distractions that is all. I didn't give any indication as to probability at all which is why you have all jumped on it. Yet it remains a possibilty.
It reminds me of the I just sneezed and headbutted the steering wheel thread.
Off to find it and have a giggle re reading.
NoNeed said:
I was going to point out that you forgot the insults but then you added another post.
Glad I wasn't wrong about your personality issue.
So in your civilised society, what rules should cyclists follow? and if they are responsible for an accident what sanctions and punishment should they receive?
Or do you want the motorists to bear total responsibility even for actions that aren't his own?
It comes back to what I originally said, cyclist could ride in a manner that minimises danger but they choose not to due to some sort of pride in a small piece of tarmac they are on. They also completley ignore the highway code.
and example that immediately springs to mind is never ride more than two abreast, and ride in single file on narrow or busy roads and when riding round bends.
I see that ignored daily yet if that results in a fatality that following the highway code would have avoided would you still want the car driver prosecuted?
Right, I'm going to try to help you here. I'll reproduce your post, but I'll remove the stuff that just shows that you are a bigot, rather than being pertinent to the point we've been discussion.Glad I wasn't wrong about your personality issue.
So in your civilised society, what rules should cyclists follow? and if they are responsible for an accident what sanctions and punishment should they receive?
Or do you want the motorists to bear total responsibility even for actions that aren't his own?
It comes back to what I originally said, cyclist could ride in a manner that minimises danger but they choose not to due to some sort of pride in a small piece of tarmac they are on. They also completley ignore the highway code.
and example that immediately springs to mind is never ride more than two abreast, and ride in single file on narrow or busy roads and when riding round bends.
I see that ignored daily yet if that results in a fatality that following the highway code would have avoided would you still want the car driver prosecuted?
"I was going to point out that you forgot the insults but then you added another post.
Glad I wasn't wrong about your personality issue."
All the rest is the standard victim blaming drivel you've been trotting out to distract from your main argument being utter rubbish.
So- I don't believe that calling you an idiot shows that I have a personality issue, no.
I think it's a purely (and very accurate) descriptive term, and in that respect a testament to my mental health.
Now, are you going to try, once again, to assert that a driver who kills through their own negligence should be given no sanction?
Here's a clue by the way - and this may speak to your own issues - when you say "Or do you want the motorists to bear total responsibility even for actions that aren't his own?" it's not the Sneeze Goblin making the "kerchoo!" noise, it's YOU, you are sneezing, therefore it's your own action - not that of some figment of your imagination.
NoNeed said:
Actually it is usually something silly,trivial and unexspected that catches people out.
The sneeze was list as one of many possibly distractions that is all. I didn't give any indication as to probability at all which is why you have all jumped on it. Yet it remains a possibilty.
It reminds me of the I just sneezed and headbutted the steering wheel thread.
Off to find it and have a giggle re reading.
No, not really. I have sneezed quite a few times driving various, riding and 'on' certain things and never crashed or killed anyone/anything. The sneeze was list as one of many possibly distractions that is all. I didn't give any indication as to probability at all which is why you have all jumped on it. Yet it remains a possibilty.
It reminds me of the I just sneezed and headbutted the steering wheel thread.
Off to find it and have a giggle re reading.
I think you're either exaggerating or full of it.
Anyone who cannot manage a few surprises whilst driving shouldn't posses a licence. It's that simple.
Dammit said:
All the rest is the standard victim blaming drivel you've been trotting out to distract from your main argument being utter rubbish.
Now, are you going to try, once again, to assert that a driver who kills through their own negligence should be given no sanction?
I have not blamed any victim, Ever.Now, are you going to try, once again, to assert that a driver who kills through their own negligence should be given no sanction?
I have not stated nor asserted that a driver that kills through his own negligence should be given no sanction.
What I said was [quote-=NoNeed]Normal people doing normal things in a perfectly normal way do not deserve to have their lives ruined on the basis that you want revenge.
You keep stating that I'm say things that i'm not while simultaneously calling me stupid. I have mentioned it a few times now yet you keep doing it.
The more you do that the more I think my original thoughts about your mental health are correct.
Oh and for all those that have a fixation on the sneeze eliment of my post while ignoring everything else.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2278669/...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2160642/Ca...
I eagerly await you to invent something else I have said while throwing insults.
I'm starting to think it may have been option one now and not the personality disorder stated in option two.
yonex said:
Anyone who cannot manage a few surprises whilst driving shouldn't posses a licence. It's that simple.
Being able to manage surprises while driving will come with training and experience but is not a pre-requisite of a licence. The fairly new hazard perception element of the test has addressed this to a point but only what can be seen and not one of those sudden oh fk moments it is designed to eliminate as those are generally unseen till it's too late.I have answered your sneeze point in the above post, but to be honest there seems to be a fixation on this I believe to avoid addressing the more serious points in my original post about them.
Edited by NoNeed on Monday 28th July 00:21
heebeegeetee said:
NoNeed said:
So you have seen me drive? You are qualified to assess my driving that you have seen?
Anyone who reckons that people could be killed by so much as a sneeze... must be one heck of a st driver if they cut people that close and still think it would be an accident if they hit them.NoNeed said:
Dammit said:
So, to recap.
[b]So in your civilised society, what rules should cyclists follow? and if they are responsible for an accident what sanctions and punishment should they receive?Or do you want the motorists to bear total responsibility even for actions that aren't his own?
It comes back to what I originally said, cyclist could ride in a manner that minimises danger but they choose not to due to some sort of pride in a small piece of tarmac they are on. They also completley ignore the highway code.
and example that immediately springs to mind is never ride more than two abreast, and ride in single file on narrow or busy roads and when riding round bends.
I see that ignored daily yet if that results in a fatality that following the highway code would have avoided would you still want the car driver prosecuted?[/b]
Edited by NoNeed on Monday 28th July 00:36
gazza285 said:
You'll not be missed, so don't hurry back.
I think you should read that thread, learn to have fun and enjoy life it's far to short to be filled with hate.http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
heebeegeetee said:
NoNeed said:
See the links I posted.
What for? How is it in any way going to represent what I have seen or expereinced over the past 35 years or going to experience in the future? And what does a cyclist running into the back of a truck in a foreign country have to do with anything?heebeegeetee said:
What for? How is it in any way going to represent what I have seen or expereinced over the past 35 years or going to experience in the future? And what does a cyclist running into the back of a truck in a foreign country have to do with anything?
You of all people should enjoy links to things unrelated to the topic being discussed.NoNeed said:
I was referring to the link regarding snoring a couple of posts above, but I suspect you knew that and are just being obtuse.
I haven't seen that link. What's it say? That people who snore when driving crash?yonex said:
You of all people should enjoy links to things unrelated to the topic being discussed.
Why?Yep, this thread has really helped move the topic ahead…
Page after page of drivers and cyclists demonstrating patience and understanding for each other… not!
Truly depressing reading.
Think I'll buy a bike and throw myself under a car… must be better than reading this thread (and should ensure another 300 pages ofdrivel debate about whose fault it was)
Page after page of drivers and cyclists demonstrating patience and understanding for each other… not!
Truly depressing reading.
Think I'll buy a bike and throw myself under a car… must be better than reading this thread (and should ensure another 300 pages of
heebeegeetee said:
NoNeed said:
I was referring to the link regarding snoring a couple of posts above, but I suspect you knew that and are just being obtuse.
I haven't seen that link. What's it say? That people who snore when driving crash?I think this thread and a number of others on here recently serve to show we are just a nation of everyone haters...
Drivers complain of other drivers, if they go faster than you are they are foolhardy, if slower a dawdler and should hand in their license.
Cyclists are grouped in with the dawdlers, and added to other hate crimes they commit deliberately to offend the person witnessing. Possibly all from the same reason.
Too many people fail to think long enough about their actions and how they will affect others, and think of their own world only.
Is it because we all live too closely together, is this a populated areas only problem?
Are lives too pressured that we cannot unwind on the weekend and give people space and time?
As a cyclist, (on and off road) and driver of a slow car and something decent, there are days when I realise I would not want to meet myself on the road, often from being tired, or irritable for other reasons.
We all need to take a little more time and while it sounds a little hippy and tree huggy, enjoy the journey more than the destination and allow ourselves to chill and not let things get so personal.
Drivers complain of other drivers, if they go faster than you are they are foolhardy, if slower a dawdler and should hand in their license.
Cyclists are grouped in with the dawdlers, and added to other hate crimes they commit deliberately to offend the person witnessing. Possibly all from the same reason.
Too many people fail to think long enough about their actions and how they will affect others, and think of their own world only.
Is it because we all live too closely together, is this a populated areas only problem?
Are lives too pressured that we cannot unwind on the weekend and give people space and time?
As a cyclist, (on and off road) and driver of a slow car and something decent, there are days when I realise I would not want to meet myself on the road, often from being tired, or irritable for other reasons.
We all need to take a little more time and while it sounds a little hippy and tree huggy, enjoy the journey more than the destination and allow ourselves to chill and not let things get so personal.
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