Not so Fun Cup. Idiot decides to drive on to the live track.
Discussion
This is all very depressing. Pistonheads lawyer in residence (tenpenceshort) says the idiot can't be prosecuted for motoring offences and says that pursuing him through the civil court would be an abuse of process. The alternative would seem to be having the circuits employ enhanced security. We all have experience of heavy handed security guards who view competitors as the problem rather than the people who need protecting. I avoid those circuits where it happens and would avoid all of them if it became universal.
bmwguy said:
This is all very depressing. Pistonheads lawyer in residence (tenpenceshort)
10PS isn't a Lawyer, just happens to have personal experience of motoring law.Legal battles frequently result in pyrrhic victories, doesn't mean it's wrong to bring a case, just means everyone has to be aware of the likely outcome. In this instance I would say the principle is very important to establish, and I dare say that the Motorsport community has members of sufficient wealth and/or position to bring such a case.
Mattt said:
10PS isn't a Lawyer, just happens to have personal experience of motoring law.
Legal battles frequently result in pyrrhic victories, doesn't mean it's wrong to bring a case, just means everyone has to be aware of the likely outcome. In this instance I would say the principle is very important to establish, and I dare say that the Motorsport community has members of sufficient wealth and/or position to bring such a case.
I would never claim to be a lawyer. Through my commercial and private life (not including my dangerous driving) I've been involved in and seen plenty of litigated and non-litigated legal disputes. The one thing they all have in common, in the end, is that you shouldn't litigate unless you are more likely than not to come out the other end with your finances in tact and the result you want.Legal battles frequently result in pyrrhic victories, doesn't mean it's wrong to bring a case, just means everyone has to be aware of the likely outcome. In this instance I would say the principle is very important to establish, and I dare say that the Motorsport community has members of sufficient wealth and/or position to bring such a case.
In this case, whoever sues this lad, is unlikely to come away with either. Ultimately a lawyer's duty is to his client and to take their instructions. That being said, I can't envisage any lawyer advising their client to sue a virtually penniless young man for an amount of money he cannot under any realistic circumstances pay. You don't need to be a lawyer to see the futility in doing so.
If the claimants were serious about wanting to send a message via the civil courts, then an injunction banning him for a period of time from the claimant's premises would be far more practical, enforceable and unavoidable than an easily ignored financial judgment that will never get paid.
bmwguy said:
Mattt said:
10PS isn't a Lawyer, just happens to have personal experience of motoring law.
Ha ha....you'd never guess!pingu393 said:
I'm surprised that a court order can be torn up when one declares oneself bankrupt. If this is the case, why doesn't everyone do it?
It isn't the court order that is torn up, it is the debt the court confirmed. A bankrupt cannot avoid a debt arising from a personal injury claim or criminal fine, but he can most ordinary debts, normally including those as a result of a civil claim.Most people or organisations don't declare themselves bankrupt or insolvent following an adverse judgment because the negative implications of doing so outweigh the benefit of avoiding the debt.
Edited by tenpenceshort on Thursday 3rd July 07:08
tenpenceshort said:
You might not like the sound of my opinions, yet you haven't managed to post anything to discount them. Sitting there with your fingers in your ears isn't going to get you what you want.
I'm not arguing with you because you may well be right. It is however profoundly depressing to think that this microcephalic "Jackass" wannabe may suffer no consequences as a result of his actions. I'm sure there will be copycat events if he doesn't. bmwguy said:
I'm not arguing with you because you may well be right. It is however profoundly depressing to think that this microcephalic "Jackass" wannabe may suffer no consequences as a result of his actions. I'm sure there will be copycat events if he doesn't.
Its easy enough to keep the gates marshalled. The gate he drove through was still open and being ignored by any marshalls minutes after he had had his 'fun' with the Funcup boys.On the other hand, please, no more onerous officialdom getting off where there is, long term, no big deal..
Edited by andygo on Thursday 3rd July 15:00
andygo said:
On the other hand, please, no more onerous officialdom getting off where there is, long term, no big deal..
I think that may be wishful thinking.......we are all going to find that pit lane passes, vehicle passes, entry tickets etc etc will be much more carefully policed from now on........even, or especially, at low profile club meetings.Edited by andygo on Thursday 3rd July 15:00
Well I know I'm going against the flow, but what he did was far less dangerous than, say, a 4 car pile up 3 feet ahead of you. Race drivers are pumped up for the unexpected and at the end of the day it was only a slow moving car off the racing line....
I'm not condoning it in any way at all, but all that needs to be done is to keep the gates shut in future. I think people are getting all hot and bothered to cover up their own embarrassment at a faux pax.
I'm not condoning it in any way at all, but all that needs to be done is to keep the gates shut in future. I think people are getting all hot and bothered to cover up their own embarrassment at a faux pax.
andygo said:
Well I know I'm going against the flow, but what he did was far less dangerous than, say, a 4 car pile up 3 feet ahead of you. Race drivers are pumped up for the unexpected and at the end of the day it was only a slow moving car off the racing line....
I'm not condoning it in any way at all, but all that needs to be done is to keep the gates shut in future. I think people are getting all hot and bothered to cover up their own embarrassment at a faux pax.
I agree with some of this. On this occasion it wasn't dangerous - more by luck than anything - but it was bloody annoying and expensive - numerous cars were damaged in the aborted restart, and teams were denied the opportunity to use the final 30 mins of the race to, err, race. The thing that concerns most of us is the glorification of it in social media and all this 'YOLO' crap which could encourage others to try the same thing... where they might not be so lucky - and even if they were 'lucky' would cause further disruption to those who race. I'm not condoning it in any way at all, but all that needs to be done is to keep the gates shut in future. I think people are getting all hot and bothered to cover up their own embarrassment at a faux pax.
It may be coincidence, but the first sign of remorse from the lad came immediately after The Sun ran the piece about him being sued. All of a sudden he was sorry. At least that was a start - hopefully the police will make something stick and the lad and his social media followers will realise that there are consequences to doing stupid things and it will nip it in the bud.
I also agree all that needs to happen in the paddock is to police the gate into the collection area a little more attentively (although what you can't see from the video is whether the little twerp waited until someone's back was turned to drive through). Some minor tweaks should sort it.
teamHOLDENracing said:
I agree with some of this. On this occasion it wasn't dangerous - more by luck than anything - but it was bloody annoying and expensive - numerous cars were damaged in the aborted restart, and teams were denied the opportunity to use the final 30 mins of the race to, err, race. The thing that concerns most of us is the glorification of it in social media and all this 'YOLO' crap which could encourage others to try the same thing... where they might not be so lucky - and even if they were 'lucky' would cause further disruption to those who race.
It may be coincidence, but the first sign of remorse from the lad came immediately after The Sun ran the piece about him being sued. All of a sudden he was sorry. At least that was a start - hopefully the police will make something stick and the lad and his social media followers will realise that there are consequences to doing stupid things and it will nip it in the bud.
I also agree all that needs to happen in the paddock is to police the gate into the collection area a little more attentively (although what you can't see from the video is whether the little twerp waited until someone's back was turned to drive through). Some minor tweaks should sort it.
What was REALLY annoying about that race meeting was the fact some utter dipstick pinched my pitboard and numbers off the pitwall. Came to our race and no way of telling the driver what was what.It may be coincidence, but the first sign of remorse from the lad came immediately after The Sun ran the piece about him being sued. All of a sudden he was sorry. At least that was a start - hopefully the police will make something stick and the lad and his social media followers will realise that there are consequences to doing stupid things and it will nip it in the bud.
I also agree all that needs to happen in the paddock is to police the gate into the collection area a little more attentively (although what you can't see from the video is whether the little twerp waited until someone's back was turned to drive through). Some minor tweaks should sort it.
andygo said:
Its easy enough to keep the gates marshalled. The gate he drove through was still open and being ignored by any marshalls minutes after he had had his 'fun' with the Funcup boys.
On the other hand, please, no more onerous officialdom getting off where there is, long term, no big deal..
Problem is at a meeting like that, there usually aren't enough marshals to go round (I've marshalled at that event a couple of times) and most will be out on the track, not in the pit lane. Marshals don't do 'security' anyway, they're looking after safety in the pit lane and on the pit straight. It's all wide open at that sort of meeting, free and easy access to pits and paddock, and to have it any other way would A] spoil it and B] kill it, because of the extra cost and hassle. Nothing is foolproof, given a determined enough fool.On the other hand, please, no more onerous officialdom getting off where there is, long term, no big deal..
Edited by andygo on Thursday 3rd July 15:00
McSatan said:
andygo said:
Its easy enough to keep the gates marshalled. The gate he drove through was still open and being ignored by any marshalls minutes after he had had his 'fun' with the Funcup boys.
On the other hand, please, no more onerous officialdom getting off where there is, long term, no big deal..
Problem is at a meeting like that, there usually aren't enough marshals to go round (I've marshalled at that event a couple of times) and most will be out on the track, not in the pit lane. Marshals don't do 'security' anyway, they're looking after safety in the pit lane and on the pit straight. It's all wide open at that sort of meeting, free and easy access to pits and paddock, and to have it any other way would A] spoil it and B] kill it, because of the extra cost and hassle. Nothing is foolproof, given a determined enough fool.On the other hand, please, no more onerous officialdom getting off where there is, long term, no big deal..
Edited by andygo on Thursday 3rd July 15:00
Racing at Snetterton last weekend, we noticed on the trackwalk that there were some brand new signs stating that this gate should remain locked at all times when track is live etc. so it's obvious something has been done. There didn't seem to be any form of access point on to the circuit but as
McSatan said:
Nothing is foolproof, given a determined enough fool.
I liked that one!Gassing Station | UK Club Motorsport | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff