Forghieri speaks on the Glickenhaus car

[Elex]

With reference to James Glickenhaus's 2005 letter to Cavallino on page 108 of his 0846 pdf document where he cites that the "Technical Data Sheet" clearly states that the wheelbase of 1966 330 P3 chassis n. 0846 was 2412mm (see pic below), as this forms a substantial part of the proof that identifies his chassis as the original 0846, please can Mr Glickenhaus let us know exactly where the "Technical Data Sheet" clearly states that the wheelbase of P3 0846 was 2412mm and was converted to 2400mm when it became a P3/4?????

Edited by Elex on Saturday 11th April 23:28

[BelfastBoy]

You know what? Maybe it's utterly naïve of me to say this, but the way I see it, Mr Glickenhaus owns a very beautiful car. If it isn't 0846, then what's the alternative - that 0846 no longer exists and was ignominiously scrapped decades ago? I know which option I prefer.

[Elex]

Napolis said:

Talk to one of the guys who recently worked with MF regarding his current capabilities and memory on the 815 which he also designed many years ago. The word he used to me was "fiasco".

I do not need to talk to anyone regarding MF's memory. I am reliably informed that it's fine. However, I will question your memory here as you are again wrong as the 815 was from 1940. If MF had designed it he would have been 5 years old in 1940. MF did not design it.

[Anjum]

Jeez.......is this thread still going?

I have been visiting/using other forums - as things appear to have changed somewhat here on PH - and I no longer feel that this site is for pure petrol heads anymore.

Shame. Real Shame.

[Muzzer79]

Elex said:

Napolis said:

Talk to one of the guys who recently worked with MF regarding his current capabilities and memory on the 815 which he also designed many years ago. The word he used to me was "fiasco".

I do not need to talk to anyone regarding MF's memory. I am reliably informed that it's fine. However, I will question your memory here as you are again wrong as the 815 was from 1940. If MF had designed it he would have been 5 years old in 1940. MF did not design it.

Seriously, what do you hope to gain from this?

Acknowledgement from Glickenhaus that his car is a fake?
Acknowledgement from Sergio Marchionne himself that the car is a fake?
A statement written in blood from someone?

One suspects you may have a long wait for either so this thread is, ultimately, futile.

Nobody reading these pages is able to conclusively accept your arguments or those of your 'opponent' so it just seems like you're a crazed madman shouting on a soapbox in a street with no-one listening.

[Petrus1983]

I'd love to be around when this guy thinks they've got the wrong answer at the local pub quiz, and the jeopardy of winning a bay of Walkers is at stake!!

[Elex]

[quote=Elex]With reference to James Glickenhaus's 2005 letter to Cavallino on page 108 of his 0846 pdf document where he cites that the "Technical Data Sheet" clearly states that the wheelbase of 1966 330 P3 chassis n. 0846 was 2412mm (see pic below), as this forms a substantial part of the proof that identifies his chassis as the original 0846, please can Mr Glickenhaus let us know exactly where the "Technical Data Sheet" clearly states that the wheelbase of P3 0846 was 2412mm and was converted to 2400mm when it became a P3/4?????




James Glickenhaus will not reply as he knows that the "Technical Data Sheet" does NOT clearly state that the 1966 P3 wheelbase was 2412mm. The "Technical Data Sheet" clearly states that the 1966 P3 wheelbase, including 0846, was 2.40 metres. It also clearly states that the 1967 wheelbase of 0846 when converted to P3/P4 was 2.40 metres. Nowhere in the "Technical Data Sheet" does it say that the wheelbase of 0846 was converted to 2.40 metres when it became a P3/P4 as it was always at 2.40 metres and was never 2412mm thus adding even more proof that the Piper/Glickenhaus chassis is NOT 0846.

I challenge Mr Glickenhaus to prove me wrong.

[Silent1]

Elex said:

I challenge Mr Glickenhaus to prove me wrong.

I challenge you to move on, you're coming across as mentally unwell in your devotion.

[dudleybloke]

He's been smoking the exploding super-crack by the sound of it!

[wijit]

Elex]lex said:

I challenge Mr Glickenhaus to prove me wrong.

I know that in some areas of engineering 12 mm is huge. However, if I understand this, the chassis was altered more than once and so 12mm no longer seems a huge deal. For perspective, there are nuts thicker.
I really don't see what you have to gain from any of this though. There is no way you will get an admission from anyone, and all your "evidence" aside, unless you can prove conclusively that the original chassis was destroyed then there will always be enough ambiguity to cast doubt on everything you have presented. I very seriously think you are in danger of ending up going daft with this obsession. This is, ultimately, a car. Nothing more, nothing less.

[dudleybloke]

So someone's half inched the 12mm?

[Andy 308GTB]

wijit said:

...This is, ultimately, a car. Nothing more, nothing less.

Whilst I agree that this is a futile exercise by Elex, it is actually more than just a car.
The difference in value between an original P3/4 race car and a replica is millions of pounds.
However, I would guess that Napolis doesn't need the money, so that motivation probably isn't a factor.

I do have sympathies with Elex as he is questioning one of the giants of the classic car scene who has a lot of supporters. But I can also understand the frustration of Napolis. It would appear that neither can win this argument.

[Burwood]

Andy 308GTB said:

wijit said:

...This is, ultimately, a car. Nothing more, nothing less.

Whilst I agree that this is a futile exercise by Elex, it is actually more than just a car.
The difference in value between an original P3/4 race car and a replica is millions of pounds.
However, I would guess that Napolis doesn't need the money, so that motivation probably isn't a factor.

I do have sympathies with Elex as he is questioning one of the giants of the classic car scene who has a lot of supporters. But I can also understand the frustration of Napolis. It would appear that neither can win this argument.

I don't agree with the last point. JG has carried out due diligence on this chassis including consulting with industry experts such that those that matter accept the car to be genuine. He does not have to prove jack st to this Elex chap

[Muzzer79]

Elex said:

James Glickenhaus will not reply as he knows that the "Technical Data Sheet" does NOT clearly state that the 1966 P3 wheelbase was 2412mm. The "Technical Data Sheet" clearly states that the 1966 P3 wheelbase, including 0846, was 2.40 metres. It also clearly states that the 1967 wheelbase of 0846 when converted to P3/P4 was 2.40 metres. Nowhere in the "Technical Data Sheet" does it say that the wheelbase of 0846 was converted to 2.40 metres when it became a P3/P4 as it was always at 2.40 metres and was never 2412mm thus adding even more proof that the Piper/Glickenhaus chassis is NOT 0846.

I challenge Mr Glickenhaus to prove me wrong.

I challenge you to respond to my earlier post.

Muzzer79 said:

Seriously, what do you hope to gain from this?

Acknowledgement from Glickenhaus that his car is a fake?
Acknowledgement from Sergio Marchionne himself that the car is a fake?
A statement written in blood from someone?

One suspects you may have a long wait for either so this thread is, ultimately, futile.

Nobody reading these pages is able to conclusively accept your arguments or those of your 'opponent' so it just seems like you're a crazed madman shouting on a soapbox in a street with no-one listening.

[R11ysf]

Burwood said:

I don't agree with the last point. JG has carried out due diligence on this chassis including consulting with industry experts such that those that matter accept the car to be genuine. He does not have to prove jack st to this Elex chap

^^^^This in entirety. Ultimately there is only one person who has to do any due diligence....and that is the person who buys the car off JG. Ultimately if he never sells it then it's value, real or otherwise, is irrelevant.

I can make a McLaren F1 in my garage and tell everyone it's real, it makes no difference if it is, isn't or is made of cheese. I don't have to prove anything to anyone unless they are parting with their hard earned for it and I certainly don't have to prove anything to some weirdo on the internet who's normally collecting numbers at Crewe Railway Station.

So please, mods, for the sanity of all normal people who hate seeing this thread re-emerge like a turd that won't flush, please kill it. Kill it with fire.

[Elex]

Burwood said:

I don't agree with the last point. JG has carried out due diligence on this chassis including consulting with industry experts such that those that matter accept the car to be genuine. He does not have to prove jack st to this Elex chap

There are no statements from any experts who matter who actually state that JG's chassis is the original 0846.

[Elex]

Muzzer79 said:

Seriously, what do you hope to gain from this?

Acknowledgement from Glickenhaus that his car is a fake?
Acknowledgement from Sergio Marchionne himself that the car is a fake?
A statement written in blood from someone?

One suspects you may have a long wait for either so this thread is, ultimately, futile.

Nobody reading these pages is able to conclusively accept your arguments or those of your 'opponent' so it just seems like you're a crazed madman shouting on a soapbox in a street with no-one listening.

The man who designed and oversaw the build of the original Ferrari 330 P3/4 0846, Ing. Mauro Forghieri, on looking at pictures of the engine mountings of James Glickenhaus's chassis has said:

"Never the factory could accept the schowed solutions to bolt the chassis to the engine. At the factory was easier to modify in correct way the triangled-tube necessary to have a perfect engine mount."

So, we already have the proof from the highest authority there is on 0846 that JG's chassis is not the original 0846.

[randlemarcus]

Elex said:

Behold Brethren, proof of my missing sandwich, and the Glickenhaus 12mm!!!

[z4RRSchris]

who really gives a fk?

Jim has a nice car that may be the old chassis, maybe a new one.

I think only you and him really care

[Burwood]

Elex said:

Burwood said:

I don't agree with the last point. JG has carried out due diligence on this chassis including consulting with industry experts such that those that matter accept the car to be genuine. He does not have to prove jack st to this Elex chap

There are no statements from any experts who matter who actually state that JG's chassis is the original 0846.

So you say. The fact Jim has a 200 page document in itself means it's more than the one page you have produced. Have you actually seen the car, been driven in it?