Forghieri speaks on the Glickenhaus car

Forghieri speaks on the Glickenhaus car

Author
Discussion

Elex

Original Poster:

458 posts

208 months

Saturday 25th April 2015
quotequote all
Burwood said:
Mario Bertonelli has said on record that he agrees with JM on all aspects of the car
Who are Mario Bertonelli and JM????

Elex

Original Poster:

458 posts

208 months

Monday 27th April 2015
quotequote all
Elex said:
NEWS FROM CHRISTIAN HUET - AUTHOR OF THE "TECHNICAL DATA SHEET" PUBLISHED IN JAMES GLICKENHAUS'S 0846 DOCUMENT.

The following is from pages 63 and 64 of James Glickenhaus's 0846 pdf document.

Glickenhaus says: "I thought about that and recently noticed something.
The following is taken from the "TECHNICAL DATA SHEET" of "330 P3/P4 Chassis n.
0846" The only car in all the Technical Data Sheets labeled "330 P3/P4"
" -330 P3/P4 -
SCHEDA TECNICA" (TECHNICAL DATA SHEET)
330 P3/P4 (1967)
Telaio N 0846
Trasformazione di un modello P3 secondo le caratteristiche del modello P4.
TELAIO
Telaio Tipo 593/603. Trasformazione della parte posteriore tubolare del
telaio per i nuovi putoni del motore
Tipo 237."
"330 P3/P4 (1967)
Chassis n. 0846
64
Transformation of a P3 model according to the characteristics of the P4
model.
Chassis
Type 593/603. Transformation of the tubular part at the rear of the chassis
for new Type 237 [P4] engine mountings."

Glickenhaus says: This transformation of 593/603 P3 to P4 is clearly visible on my chassis and doesn't exist
on 0900, 0900a, or 0856 as they are built to the 1967 P4 chassis blueprints. By comparing
my chassis with P3 0844, one can see how this transformation from P3 to P4 was done."


No, James, the above transformation of 593/603 P3 to P4 is NOT clearly visible in your chassis and I will explain why:

Recently I have been communicating with Christian Huet, the highly regarded French Ferrari writer who is the author of the "TECHNICAL DATA SHEET" above which is cited in JG's pdf document and other places as proof that his chassis is the original and authentic 0846. Please note that James Glickenhaus does not give credit to Christian Huet or his Cavalleria book Ferrari 330 P3/412P as the source of information that he has copied and published in his 0846 document.

Regarding the engine mountings of the original and real 0846 Christian Huet stated in writing (in French which was translated):

"I have found the notebook for my books about Ferrari, where I wrote my questions and Mauro Forghieri's replies. Concerning 0846, the modification of the P3 type 593 chassis, into a P4 type 603 required the total replacement of the rear of the chassis, which was then, absolutely identical to those of the P4s type 603."

After looking at the pictures from his 0846 document of the engine mountings on James Glickenhaus's chassis, Christian Huet stated the following:

"Concerning the photos showing the engine mounting of the P4 motor on "the so-called 0846", I deduce that it's a "DIY job" without any relationship to the original 0846 and without any relationship with the work practices of Ferrari, which I have studied/known for many years."

I have the written permission of Christian Huet to share his information.
So, here we have it. Proof from the author of the TECHNICAL DATA SHEET (SCHEDA TECNICA), Christian Huet, that the rear of the chassis on the real, original 0846 was totally replaced and was absolutely identical to the P4s when it was modified from a P3 type 593 to P4 type 603.

There were no vestigial P3 engine mountings on the chassis of the original P3/4 0846.

There were no bolt on adaptors on the original P3/4 0846 to make the P4 engine fit.

The P4 (or 312 F1) engine mounting on the Glickenhaus "so called 0846" chassis is a "DIY" job without any relationship to the original 0846 and without any relationship with the work practices of Ferrari.

James must now finally concede that he has misinterpreted and misquoted the TECHNICAL DATA SHEET (SCHEDA TECNICA) cited in his 0846 pdf document which actually proves that his chassis is NOT the original 0846.

Over to you, James????


Edited by Elex on Monday 27th April 06:42

SHutchinson

2,040 posts

183 months

Monday 27th April 2015
quotequote all
Surely this revelation puts Christian Huet at loggerheads with MF who said the rear part of the chassis was modified, not entirely replaced. I'm not bothered either way but even this doesn't seem like proof either side is 100% correct.

Elex

Original Poster:

458 posts

208 months

Monday 27th April 2015
quotequote all
SHutchinson said:
Surely this revelation puts Christian Huet at loggerheads with MF who said the rear part of the chassis was modified, not entirely replaced. I'm not bothered either way but even this doesn't seem like proof either side is 100% correct.
It does not put CH at loggerheads with MF. If you think about it Ing. Mauro Forghieri was the "designer" so from a "design" point the rear of the chassis would only have to be modified in minor detail to accommodate the new and differing P4 mounting coordinates on the side of the P4 engine which then would have required the replacement of the rear tubes. The TECHNICAL DATA SHEET (SCHEDA TECHNICA) was written after Christian Huet consulted Mauro Forghieri and Gianni Rogliatti.

MF in his original statement looked at the photos of the JG engine mountings and effectively said Ferrari would not have done it that way. That’s because Ferrari replaced all the rear chassis with a P4 rear chassis.



Edited by Elex on Thursday 30th April 09:33

dinkel

26,889 posts

257 months

Monday 27th April 2015
quotequote all
As forums are very good indexed by Google I suggest this is a smart move to drop loads of content on a well ranked domain in order to gain a higj authority on this subject.

I would like to see a video interview about this subject and with all the actors included. This topic could moan on and filth my PH TL. The truth? Come on!

Napolis

303 posts

212 months

Monday 27th April 2015
quotequote all
Murph7355 said:
As a neutral observer you (The Troll) actually have no such thing.

You have the recollection of an 80yr old man (I believe) about something that happened 50yrs ago (I believe) and who is unlikely to have been present with the car/its parts for every minute of the intervening 50yrs.

More to the point, the current owner seems to have a bunch of stuff that is as equally compelling (or as equally not) to prove the opposite to your view. He also doesn't appear to be causing anyone other than you distress about its provenance - it's not like he's trying to tout it on the market.

You've also ducked the questions Muzzer79 asked. You do seem to have the biggest of bees in your bonnet over this, and having seen you post on it in various places, following JG around, it does all come across as very weird and not a little bit creepy - JG's certainly been more tolerant of your attentions than I think I would have been in the circumstances smile
Exactly.

You'd think this Troll would realize that when Mauro began by stating:

"Chris was hit by a flying wheel" when nothing remotely like than ever happened that Mauro's recollection of what happened 48 years ago wasn't exactly up to par. Coupled with his total backtracking on cross examination when he admitted: "the modification of the chassis with vestigial mounts etc." "of course" could have been done by Ferrari." and his recent debacle failing to restore the 8C1.5L F1 car he designed 51 years ago, "Disaster" was the word FS used, the results of the recent 512 Pinin consult, and his aborted new supercar project what you easily deduced is the sad state of MF's current affairs.

The real ultra stupidity of this trolls jumping the shark was his latest Huet comments. Firstly the misinformation that Huet published that this troll loves to parrot "Type 603R gearbox" besides being totally false is easily seen to be totally not true with one's own naked eyes by anyone who's ever looked at 0854's gearbox as real experts like Marcel Massini and Keith Bluemel who not only have looked at 0846 as it exists today but have also after looking at 0846 as currently owned by me recently clearly reported in writing that 0846 owned by me has attended several top concours. Should anyone want to confirm the falsehood of "603 R" for themselves all they have to do is to have a look this summer during Pebble Car Week. Back to Huet's beyond stupid comments. Lets see, it's December 66. You need to mule 0846 to fit a new P4 engine and have her at Daytona for testing in a few weeks. You ( according to Huet) cut off the entire rear end of the chassis? Including the north/south one piece load bearing chassis tubes and what? butt weld an entire new rear section on to the now cut north/south load bearing tubes? Butt weld tubes that give the chassis it's structure and carry oil and water and would flex at the butt welds causing the chassis to destroy itself in short order??? Or you simply weld two additional motor mounts to accept the new motor to the existing chassis and two bushings and you're good to go with no additional work? Even MF's mind isn't too far gone to remember those pesky P3 "vestigial motor mounts" which 0846 originally had. I could go on but what's the point? Trolls gotta Troll. Garbage into Troll garbage out of Troll. If anyone wants to see 0846 for themselves she's often at a major concourse or Historic event. I'll be racing at the N24, then on to Villa d'Este, PF's 85Th, Goodwood FOS, Pebble Week, Greenwich, Road and Track Concours in the Park. If you're at any of those do say hello and have a look for your self at anything you want to.

http://www.cavallino.com/2014/04/01/ferraris-at-th...

Source: Keith Bluemel

Ferrari Entry at the

Amelia Island Concours d’Elegance, March 8, 2014

Compiled by Keith Bluemel

Best of Class FP:

410 SA Superfast 0483 SA B. & A. Brockington Lee

Best of Class FP1:

275 GTB/4 (Alloy) 09501 G. & S. Schaevitz

Best of Class FR:

340 MM Vignale Spyder 0324 AM M. Leventhal

Best of Class Cars of Zagato Design:

250 GT LWB Zagato Coupe 0665 GT L. Herrington

Amelia Awards Class FP:

212 Inter Ghia Coupe 0145 E D. Nelson

400 Superamerica 5115 SA D. & C. Murray

Amelia Awards Class FP1:

365 GTB/4 13231 J. & S. Campion

365 GTB/4 NART Spyder 14299 J. Barrett

Amelia Awards Class FR:

166 Spyder Corsa 016 I Revs Institute

312 P(B) 0894 J. Jaeger

The Gil Nickel/Far Niente Award (Car in which to tour the Nappa Valley):

212 Inter Vignale Coupe 0213 EL R. Junca de la Vega Jr.

The McIntosh Trophy (For the best sound on the field):

335 S Spyder 0764 A. Mohringer

Class FP:

212 Inter Ghia Coupe 0145 E D. Nelson

212 Inter Vignale Coupe 0213 EL R. Junca de la Vega Jr.

250 GT Boano Coupe 0447 GT D. Nicotra

410 SA Superfast 0483 SA B. & A. Brockington Lee

400 Superamerica 5115 SA D. & C. Murray

250 GT Lusso 5211 GT J. Dobbs

Class FP1:

330 GT 2+2 Drogo 7979 Goodman Collection

275 GTS (Black Hardtop) 07767 D. & S. Nelson

275 GTB4 (Alloy) 09501 G. & S. Schaevitz

275 GTB4 10803 P. Klutt

275 GTB4 10533 J. Capasso

365 GT 2+2 NART Spider 12611 Goodman Collection

365 GTB4 NART Spider 14299 J. Barrett

365 GTB4 13231 J. & S. Campion

Class FR:

166 Spider Corsa 016 I Collier Collection

340 MM Vignale Spider 0324 AM M. Leventhal

335 S Spider 0764 A. Mohringer

330 P3/4 0846 J. Glickenhaus

312 P(B) 0894 J. Jaeger

Class Z:

250 GT LWB Zagato Coupe 0665 GT L. Herrington

Ferrari North America Display

250 GT Cabriolet (Hardtop) 2473 GT F. Ricciardelli

FF 197977

Auctions America Display:

365 GTB/4 16393

Entrance Area Display:

212 Export Touring Berlinetta 0088 E

RM Auction:

250 GT S2 Cabriolet 2093 GT Lot # 162

365 GTB4 15569 Lot # 176

365 GTC4 15859 Lot # 112

Dino 246 GTS 08286 Lot # 127

512 BBi 44881 Lot # 145

512TR 98634 Lot # 178

360 Challenge 123439 Lot # 106

Gooding & Company Auction:

250 Europa GT 0409 GT Lot # 62

365 GTB/4 15117 Lot # 74

365 GTB/4 15741 Lot # 34

Dino 206 GT 00378 Lot # 70

Dino 246 GT 04970 Lot # 45

Dino 246 GTS 08070 Lot # 5

132

As I'm crossing the bridge and won't be back this way again I leave you with some light entertainment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjEcj8KpuJw


Drclarke

1,185 posts

172 months

Monday 27th April 2015
quotequote all
I for one am glad the owner has replied, and made Mr Robertson aka Elex look like fool.

Bluebottle911

811 posts

194 months

Monday 27th April 2015
quotequote all
Where to next, Elex? Banned from FChat and FLife and not exactly won too many friends or influenced people here.

Jim, I salute your patience in answering the same questions so many times over: I would have given up answering long ago.

dudleybloke

19,718 posts

185 months

Monday 27th April 2015
quotequote all
I think I called it correct with my exploding supercrack theory!
wink

Elex

Original Poster:

458 posts

208 months

Tuesday 28th April 2015
quotequote all
Napolis said:
Exactly.

You'd think this Troll would realize that when Mauro began by stating:

"Chris was hit by a flying wheel" when nothing remotely like than ever happened that Mauro's recollection of what happened 48 years ago wasn't exactly up to par. Coupled with his total backtracking on cross examination when he admitted: "the modification of the chassis with vestigial mounts etc." "of course" could have been done by Ferrari." and his recent debacle failing to restore the 8C1.5L F1 car he designed 51 years ago, "Disaster" was the word FS used, the results of the recent 512 Pinin consult, and his aborted new supercar project what you easily deduced is the sad state of MF's current affairs.

The real ultra stupidity of this trolls jumping the shark was his latest Huet comments. Firstly the misinformation that Huet published that this troll loves to parrot "Type 603R gearbox" besides being totally false is easily seen to be totally not true with one's own naked eyes by anyone who's ever looked at 0854's gearbox as real experts like Marcel Massini and Keith Bluemel who not only have looked at 0846 as it exists today but have also after looking at 0846 as currently owned by me recently clearly reported in writing that 0846 owned by me has attended several top concours. Should anyone want to confirm the falsehood of "603 R" for themselves all they have to do is to have a look this summer during Pebble Car Week. Back to Huet's beyond stupid comments. Lets see, it's December 66. You need to mule 0846 to fit a new P4 engine and have her at Daytona for testing in a few weeks. You ( according to Huet) cut off the entire rear end of the chassis? Including the north/south one piece load bearing chassis tubes and what? butt weld an entire new rear section on to the now cut north/south load bearing tubes? Butt weld tubes that give the chassis it's structure and carry oil and water and would flex at the butt welds causing the chassis to destroy itself in short order??? Or you simply weld two additional motor mounts to accept the new motor to the existing chassis and two bushings and you're good to go with no additional work? Even MF's mind isn't too far gone to remember those pesky P3 "vestigial motor mounts" which 0846 originally had. I could go on but what's the point? Trolls gotta Troll. Garbage into Troll garbage out of Troll. If anyone wants to see 0846 for themselves she's often at a major concourse or Historic event. I'll be racing at the N24, then on to Villa d'Este, PF's 85Th, Goodwood FOS, Pebble Week, Greenwich, Road and Track Concours in the Park. If you're at any of those do say hello and have a look for your self at anything you want to.

http://www.cavallino.com/2014/04/01/ferraris-at-th...

Source: Keith Bluemel

Ferrari Entry at the

Amelia Island Concours d’Elegance, March 8, 2014

Compiled by Keith Bluemel

Best of Class FP:

410 SA Superfast 0483 SA B. & A. Brockington Lee

Best of Class FP1:

275 GTB/4 (Alloy) 09501 G. & S. Schaevitz

Best of Class FR:

340 MM Vignale Spyder 0324 AM M. Leventhal

Best of Class Cars of Zagato Design:

250 GT LWB Zagato Coupe 0665 GT L. Herrington

Amelia Awards Class FP:

212 Inter Ghia Coupe 0145 E D. Nelson

400 Superamerica 5115 SA D. & C. Murray

Amelia Awards Class FP1:

365 GTB/4 13231 J. & S. Campion

365 GTB/4 NART Spyder 14299 J. Barrett

Amelia Awards Class FR:

166 Spyder Corsa 016 I Revs Institute

312 P(B) 0894 J. Jaeger

The Gil Nickel/Far Niente Award (Car in which to tour the Nappa Valley):

212 Inter Vignale Coupe 0213 EL R. Junca de la Vega Jr.

The McIntosh Trophy (For the best sound on the field):

335 S Spyder 0764 A. Mohringer

Class FP:

212 Inter Ghia Coupe 0145 E D. Nelson

212 Inter Vignale Coupe 0213 EL R. Junca de la Vega Jr.

250 GT Boano Coupe 0447 GT D. Nicotra

410 SA Superfast 0483 SA B. & A. Brockington Lee

400 Superamerica 5115 SA D. & C. Murray

250 GT Lusso 5211 GT J. Dobbs

Class FP1:

330 GT 2+2 Drogo 7979 Goodman Collection

275 GTS (Black Hardtop) 07767 D. & S. Nelson

275 GTB4 (Alloy) 09501 G. & S. Schaevitz

275 GTB4 10803 P. Klutt

275 GTB4 10533 J. Capasso

365 GT 2+2 NART Spider 12611 Goodman Collection

365 GTB4 NART Spider 14299 J. Barrett

365 GTB4 13231 J. & S. Campion

Class FR:

166 Spider Corsa 016 I Collier Collection

340 MM Vignale Spider 0324 AM M. Leventhal

335 S Spider 0764 A. Mohringer

330 P3/4 0846 J. Glickenhaus

312 P(B) 0894 J. Jaeger

Class Z:

250 GT LWB Zagato Coupe 0665 GT L. Herrington

Ferrari North America Display

250 GT Cabriolet (Hardtop) 2473 GT F. Ricciardelli

FF 197977

Auctions America Display:

365 GTB/4 16393

Entrance Area Display:

212 Export Touring Berlinetta 0088 E

RM Auction:

250 GT S2 Cabriolet 2093 GT Lot # 162

365 GTB4 15569 Lot # 176

365 GTC4 15859 Lot # 112

Dino 246 GTS 08286 Lot # 127

512 BBi 44881 Lot # 145

512TR 98634 Lot # 178

360 Challenge 123439 Lot # 106

Gooding & Company Auction:

250 Europa GT 0409 GT Lot # 62

365 GTB/4 15117 Lot # 74

365 GTB/4 15741 Lot # 34

Dino 206 GT 00378 Lot # 70

Dino 246 GT 04970 Lot # 45

Dino 246 GTS 08070 Lot # 5

132

As I'm crossing the bridge and won't be back this way again I leave you with some light entertainment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjEcj8KpuJw
You are a liar. Mauro Forghieri did not say "the modification of the chassis with vestigial mounts etc." "of course" could have been done by Ferrari." There was no total backtracking. His alleged, unauthenticated statement to you below underlined that the modifications on your chassis were not his work proving your chassis is NOT 0846.

"I cannot of course rule out that thos modifications have been carried out elsewhere,perhaps even by another Ferrari departement."

Marcel and Keith reporting that 0846 owned by you has attended several concours merely means that your car is legally 0846 which you now claim it is by a legal loophole called estoppel. However that does not mean your car is the original Ferrari 0846 that won Daytona in 1967 etc. Marcel Massini and Keith Bluemel have never made any public statement that your chassis is the original Ferrari 0846. Prove me wrong.

Christian Huet published the TECHNICAL DATA SHEET (SCHEDA TECHNICA) 20 years ago from written questions and replies he received from Ing. Mauro Forghieri at or BEFORE that time. There would have been no question surrounding MF's memory at that point in his life. Christian Huet also met with Mauro Forghieri where he questioned him on things including 0846 at or BEFORE the time of publication.

That you say that Christian Huet has written a falsehood and misinformation regarding the 603 R gearbox which is included in the TECHNICAL DATA SHEET (SCHEDA TECHNICA) but you have cited this very same TECHNICAL DATA SHEET (SCHEDA TECHNICA) in your 0846 pdf document and other places as proof that your chassis is the original 0846 is absolutely pathetic. You have also totally misquoted the CH's TECHNICAL DATA SHEET saying it states that the P3 wheelbase was 2412mm. It does not say that. It says the P3 wheelbase was 2.40 metres. All this and you do not even give credit to Christian Huet for copying the information from his Cavalleria book Ferrari 330 P3/412P.

Both the author of the TECHNICAL DATA SHEET (SCHEDA TECHNICA) and Mauro Forghieri, the designer of the original 0846, after looking over YOUR pictures of the engine mountings on your chassis have said 0846's P3/4 engine mountings were not done that way. It's a "DIY job" I'm afraid. You have no case. Your evidence has been dismissed. Case closed.

Oh, just editing my post to ask what you are now going to do about the TECHNICAL DATA SHEET (SCHEDA TECHNICA) information published in your 0846 pdf document now that its relevance to your car has been zeroed by both its author and the actual Ferrari designer of the original 0846 consulted in its writing?????





Edited by Elex on Tuesday 28th April 05:16

Petrus1983

8,522 posts

161 months

Tuesday 28th April 2015
quotequote all
Elex said:
You are a liar. Mauro Forghieri did not say "the modification of the chassis with vestigial mounts etc." "of course" could have been done by Ferrari."
I've said it before, I think you're pushing your luck on this weird attack on JG - but it's getting a bit personal and I'm surprised you are in a position to state what someone has/hasn't said over the course of their lifetimes, including room for them to change their own perspective of something they may/may not have said to you.

Adam B

27,143 posts

253 months

Tuesday 28th April 2015
quotequote all
Napolis said:
If anyone wants to see 0846 for themselves she's often at a major concourse or Historic event. I'll be racing at the N24, then on to Villa d'Este, PF's 85Th, Goodwood FOS, Pebble Week, Greenwich, Road and Track Concours in the Park. If you're at any of those do say hello and have a look for your self at anything you want to.
thank you for using / showing the car to the public so we can appreciate it

randlemarcus

13,507 posts

230 months

Tuesday 28th April 2015
quotequote all
Elex said:
your car is legally 0846
Lovely. That's cleared that up then.

Now how's the weather your end?

Steve12NG

257 posts

151 months

Tuesday 28th April 2015
quotequote all
randlemarcus said:
Lovely. That's cleared that up then.

Now how's the weather your end?
Hehe.

This thread has gone from mildly interesting to genuinely disturbing.
Some people really don't have enough to do.

WCZ

10,492 posts

193 months

Tuesday 28th April 2015
quotequote all
randlemarcus said:
Lovely. That's cleared that up then.
not really if it's just legal due to a strange loophole of law

Burwood

18,709 posts

245 months

Tuesday 28th April 2015
quotequote all
Using the word 'liar' only proves your bias/agenda. No credibility at all

Silent1

19,761 posts

234 months

Tuesday 28th April 2015
quotequote all
Elex said:
You are a liar. Mauro Forghieri did not say "the modification of the chassis with vestigial mounts etc." "of course" could have been done by Ferrari." There was no total backtracking. His alleged, unauthenticated statement to you below underlined that the modifications on your chassis were not his work proving your chassis is NOT 0846.

"I cannot of course rule out that thos modifications have been carried out elsewhere,perhaps even by another Ferrari departement."

Marcel and Keith reporting that 0846 owned by you has attended several concours merely means that your car is legally 0846 which you now claim it is by a legal loophole called estoppel. However that does not mean your car is the original Ferrari 0846 that won Daytona in 1967 etc. Marcel Massini and Keith Bluemel have never made any public statement that your chassis is the original Ferrari 0846. Prove me wrong.

Christian Huet published the TECHNICAL DATA SHEET (SCHEDA TECHNICA) 20 years ago from written questions and replies he received from Ing. Mauro Forghieri at or BEFORE that time. There would have been no question surrounding MF's memory at that point in his life. Christian Huet also met with Mauro Forghieri where he questioned him on things including 0846 at or BEFORE the time of publication.

That you say that Christian Huet has written a falsehood and misinformation regarding the 603 R gearbox which is included in the TECHNICAL DATA SHEET (SCHEDA TECHNICA) but you have cited this very same TECHNICAL DATA SHEET (SCHEDA TECHNICA) in your 0846 pdf document and other places as proof that your chassis is the original 0846 is absolutely pathetic. You have also totally misquoted the CH's TECHNICAL DATA SHEET saying it states that the P3 wheelbase was 2412mm. It does not say that. It says the P3 wheelbase was 2.40 metres. All this and you do not even give credit to Christian Huet for copying the information from his Cavalleria book Ferrari 330 P3/412P.

Both the author of the TECHNICAL DATA SHEET (SCHEDA TECHNICA) and Mauro Forghieri, the designer of the original 0846, after looking over YOUR pictures of the engine mountings on your chassis have said 0846's P3/4 engine mountings were not done that way. It's a "DIY job" I'm afraid. You have no case. Your evidence has been dismissed. Case closed.

Oh, just editing my post to ask what you are now going to do about the TECHNICAL DATA SHEET (SCHEDA TECHNICA) information published in your 0846 pdf document now that its relevance to your car has been zeroed by both its author and the actual Ferrari designer of the original 0846 consulted in its writing?????





Edited by Elex on Tuesday 28th April 05:16
What an overly emotional bizarre post, please move on, you clearly have an issue with James and not really with the car.

132

474 posts

262 months

Tuesday 28th April 2015
quotequote all
And in other news...5000 people have just died in Nepal...

Elex

Original Poster:

458 posts

208 months

Monday 4th May 2015
quotequote all
Napolis said:
Exactly.

You'd think this Troll would realize that when Mauro began by stating:

"Chris was hit by a flying wheel" when nothing remotely like than ever happened that Mauro's recollection of what happened 48 years ago wasn't exactly up to par. Coupled with his total backtracking on cross examination when he admitted: "the modification of the chassis with vestigial mounts etc." "of course" could have been done by Ferrari." and his recent debacle failing to restore the 8C1.5L F1 car he designed 51 years ago, "Disaster" was the word FS used, the results of the recent 512 Pinin consult, and his aborted new supercar project what you easily deduced is the sad state of MF's current affairs.

The real ultra stupidity of this trolls jumping the shark was his latest Huet comments. Firstly the misinformation that Huet published that this troll loves to parrot "Type 603R gearbox" besides being totally false is easily seen to be totally not true with one's own naked eyes by anyone who's ever looked at 0854's gearbox as real experts like Marcel Massini and Keith Bluemel who not only have looked at 0846 as it exists today but have also after looking at 0846 as currently owned by me recently clearly reported in writing that 0846 owned by me has attended several top concours. Should anyone want to confirm the falsehood of "603 R" for themselves all they have to do is to have a look this summer during Pebble Car Week. Back to Huet's beyond stupid comments. Lets see, it's December 66. You need to mule 0846 to fit a new P4 engine and have her at Daytona for testing in a few weeks. You ( according to Huet) cut off the entire rear end of the chassis? Including the north/south one piece load bearing chassis tubes and what? butt weld an entire new rear section on to the now cut north/south load bearing tubes? Butt weld tubes that give the chassis it's structure and carry oil and water and would flex at the butt welds causing the chassis to destroy itself in short order??? Or you simply weld two additional motor mounts to accept the new motor to the existing chassis and two bushings and you're good to go with no additional work? Even MF's mind isn't too far gone to remember those pesky P3 "vestigial motor mounts" which 0846 originally had. I could go on but what's the point? Trolls gotta Troll. Garbage into Troll garbage out of Troll. If anyone wants to see 0846 for themselves she's often at a major concourse or Historic event. I'll be racing at the N24, then on to Villa d'Este, PF's 85Th, Goodwood FOS, Pebble Week, Greenwich, Road and Track Concours in the Park. If you're at any of those do say hello and have a look for your self at anything you want to.
You have not only lied about Ing. Forghieri saying "the modification of the chassis with vestigial mounts etc." "of course" could have been done by Ferrari." you also go on to attack the man which is absolutely disgusting. I have no knowledge of the supercar project etc but you have totally forgotten about Ing. Forghieri's massive positive contribution to the history of Ferrari as Chief Technical Director of Ferrari's Racing Department between 1961 and 1985. That's it, James, you can't defeat the argument so attack the man who has given so much to Ferrari. You should be ashamed of yourself!!!

The 603R gearbox information that Christian Huet published 20 years ago is not misinformation and totally false at all. I have it in writing in a 2013 email from a very high ranking official of Ferrari Classiche that the 603R gearbox was used in 0858 when it was in 330 P4 configuration as well as 350 Can Am. You really are clutching at straws now. There is hardly any difference between tipo nomenclatures 603 and 603R anyway. I have seen "603" stamped on the gearbox of P3/412P 0848 pictured in Christian Huet's Cavalleria book. That doesn't mean the factory does not refer to it as 603R.

Regarding your comment "Lets see, it's December 66. You need to mule 0846 to fit a new P4 engine and have her at Daytona for testing in a few weeks." you have yet again got your facts wrong. 0846 was modified between the months of June and November, 1966, some 5 months before being sent to Daytona at the very end of November 1966 for testing for the race proper in February, 1967. There was plenty of time to carry out the modifications properly. What has been done to your chassis would have been done in the "few weeks" - or less - time scale that you describe as it is a ""DIY" job without any relationship to the original 0846 and without any relationship with the work practices of Ferrari."

Ing. Forghieri has stated in writing regarding the engine mountings on your chassis: "Never the factory could accept the schowed solutions to bolt the chassis to the engine. At the factory was easier to modify in correct way the triangled-tube necessary to have a perfect engine mount." That solution simply does not work in using the engine block as a supporting part of the chassis structure which it was designed to do.

Regarding your extremely disrespectful and unfeeling comment: "Even MF's mind isn't too far gone to remember those pesky P3 "vestigial motor mounts" which 0846 originally had." you are now believing your own lies. Ing. Forghieri has said nothing whatsoever about remembering those P3 vestigial motor mounts which 0846 originally had. 0846 when modified to P3/4 did not have vestigial P3 mounts with bolt on adaptors. The tubes containing the differing P3 engine mount positions at the rear of the chassis were removed and correct P4 tubing containing correctly coordinated P4 tipo 237 engine mountings were installed. The rear part of the chassis was identical to a P4. Please, please prove me wrong.


Edited by Elex on Thursday 7th May 22:34

Napolis

303 posts

212 months

Monday 4th May 2015
quotequote all
"Ferrari tipo 603R was installed. The same information applies to 412 P cars 0850 and 0854"
This Troll parroting Huet.

My response:

"The real ultra stupidity of this trolls jumping the shark was his latest Huet comments. Firstly the misinformation that Huet published that this troll loves to parrot "Type 603R gearbox" besides being totally false is easily seen to be totally not true with one's own naked eyes by anyone who's ever looked at 0854's gearbox as real experts like Marcel Massini and Keith Bluemel who not only have looked at 0846 as it exists today but have also after looking at 0846 as currently owned by me recently clearly reported in writing that 0846 owned by me has attended several top concours. Should anyone want to confirm the falsehood of "603 R" for themselves all they have to do is to have a look this summer during Pebble Car Week. "

The Troll responded:

"The 603R gearbox information that Christian Huet published 20 years ago is not misinformation and totally false at all. I have it in writing in a 2013 email from a very high ranking official of Ferrari Classiche that the 603R gearbox was used in 0858 when it was in P4 configuration as well as 350 Can Am."

0854 is not 0858. It is a TOTALLY different car, model,tipo and chassis number. It is and has always been a 412P. What the gearbox in 350 Can Am 0858 may or may not be has NO BEARING WHATSOEVER on 0854.

My answer remains the same:

"The real ultra stupidity of this trolls jumping the shark was his latest Huet comments. Firstly the misinformation that Huet published that this troll loves to parrot "Type 603R gearbox" besides being totally false is easily seen to be totally not true with one's own naked eyes by anyone who's ever looked at 0854's gearbox as real experts like Marcel Massini and Keith Bluemel who not only have looked at 0846 as it exists today but have also after looking at 0846 as currently owned by me recently clearly reported in writing that 0846 owned by me has attended several top concours. Should anyone want to confirm the falsehood of "603 R" for themselves all they have to do is to have a look this summer during Pebble Car Week. "

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjEcj8KpuJw