Overtaking safely with an on-coming car

[monthefish]

Just wondered what the forums thoughts are on this.

Obviously you don't want to alarm the on-coming car in any way, or give them any reason whatsoever to brake or alter their speed etc, but we know that there is a huge variance in sensitivity of 'other' drivers

In the few times I've done it (with plenty of margin I must point out), it always feels a bit wrong.

In theory, it's not any worse than overtaking on a shorter straight and then a car coming round the next bend, say, 10 seconds after you're back in (i.e the car comes round the bend completely oblivious to the fact that you've just overtaken). Same TED, same (safe) time gap to oncoming car - just in one case the oncoming car witnesses the overtake.

It could be argued that it is actually safer as you have more information on the entire situation, whereas in theory, in the second scenario a McLaren P1 could be coming round the bend at twice the speed limit...

Thoughts?




p.s. Thread prompted by this...

carreauchompeur said:

Went for an overtake, plenty of room, wide road, good visibility and speed differential. I was aware of a car approaching in the other direction and knew I could complete the overtake safely... As I passed them the passenger was giving me the coffee beans.

Edited by monthefish on Tuesday 17th June 16:14

[SK425]

monthefish said:

It could be argued that it is actually safer as you have more information on the entire situation, whereas in theory, in the second scenario a McLaren P1 could be coming round the bend at twice the speed limit...

This. Sometimes having an oncomer already in view can be quite reassuring and can make the decision easier.

[V8forweekends]

As long as you are certain your judgement's OK - I've been forced to slow a little or a lot and one time to do an emergency stop by oncoming cretins who either thought they had time or didn't care.

[Davel]

Thing is that what we see as a safe overtake, with plenty of margin, may be seen by others as risky.

As you say, quite often the oncoming driver sees you as making a 'dangerous' overtake, even if it actually isn't.

[monthefish]

V8forweekends said:

As long as you are certain your judgement's OK - I've been forced to slow a little or a lot and one time to do an emergency stop by oncoming cretins who either thought they had time or didn't care.

Yes, as have I. One when we ended up three abreast when fortunately the road was just wide enough (but I suspect in that case the overtaking car was stolen!)

I've also seen what I deem to be perfectly safe overtakes, however aunt mabel might have been quite alarmed in the same scenario.

[R_U_LOCAL]

SK425 said:

monthefish said:

It could be argued that it is actually safer as you have more information on the entire situation, whereas in theory, in the second scenario a McLaren P1 could be coming round the bend at twice the speed limit...

This. Sometimes having an oncomer already in view can be quite reassuring and can make the decision easier.

I completely agree with this. Seeing the oncoming vehicle makes it much easier to accurately plan your overtake because you can weigh up all the opposing speeds in your plan. Planning for an unseen oncoming vehicle is more difficult because your plan must include a vehicle potentially travelling at very high speed which reduces the time available to complete your overtake.

Ancient post on overtaking here if it helps...

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

[Dr Jekyll]

R_U_LOCAL said:

I completely agree with this. Seeing the oncoming vehicle makes it much easier to accurately plan your overtake because you can weigh up all the opposing speeds in your plan. Planning for an unseen oncoming vehicle is more difficult because your plan must include a vehicle potentially travelling at very high speed which reduces the time available to complete your overtake.

A bit disconcerting when another vehicle appears overtaking the oncoming vehicle though.

[R_U_LOCAL]

Dr Jekyll said:

R_U_LOCAL said:

I completely agree with this. Seeing the oncoming vehicle makes it much easier to accurately plan your overtake because you can weigh up all the opposing speeds in your plan. Planning for an unseen oncoming vehicle is more difficult because your plan must include a vehicle potentially travelling at very high speed which reduces the time available to complete your overtake.

A bit disconcerting when another vehicle appears overtaking the oncoming vehicle though.

Always have an alternative plan! Even if it is as simple as aborting the overtake.

[JamesNotJim]

personally, If you see someone in the distance and decide to overtake. The use of indicators throughout the manoeuvre lets oncoming vehicles know when you are finishing the overtake.

[Pixelpeep]

You will always get those angry flashers.

I see it more from the car i overtake usually. Really baffles me. There they are, mincing around driving at 30 on a straight B Road which is NSL, I overtake then next thing i know they are flashing their headlights and suddenly decide they want to break the land speed record.

Pay attention people!

Otherside of the coin, was in Soham on a long single carriageway between two roundabouts and saw a Toyota Hilux in the distance overtaking a petrol tanker. He's in my lane in the distance and heading straight for us, I say to the other half, 'he doesn't seem to be going very fast for an opposite lane overtake'. Sure enough he must have been doing +5mph on the tanker because we had to slow to 10mph to allow him to complete the move and it was still touch and go as to if i would need to ditch the car to avoid him.

Scary times!

[boxedin]

Pixelpeep said:

You will always get those angry flashers.

I see it more from the car i overtake usually. Really baffles me. There they are, mincing around driving at 30 on a straight B Road which is NSL, I overtake then next thing i know they are flashing their headlights and suddenly decide they want to break the land speed record.

Pay attention people!

Otherside of the coin, was in Soham on a long single carriageway between two roundabouts and saw a Toyota Hilux in the distance overtaking a petrol tanker. He's in my lane in the distance and heading straight for us, I say to the other half, 'he doesn't seem to be going very fast for an opposite lane overtake'. Sure enough he must have been doing +5mph on the tanker because we had to slow to 10mph to allow him to complete the move and it was still touch and go as to if i would need to ditch the car to avoid him.

Scary times!

I watched a beetle overtaking a tractor in a NSL, very straight section and long enough for 3 cars to pass with comfort.. I was on a cycle path wondering if she was overtaking or trying to have a chat with the farmer, it appeared she was also doing nothing more than 5mph greater than the tractor which led to some twitchy movements from the following cars who expected her to be travelling at least something more akin to completing an overtake. In the time she took the average joe could have overtaken a 3-4 tractor convoy.

I also imagine, she'd expect that any head-on issue wouldn't be her fault.

[standards]

If I'm driving the oncoming car I prefer to see the overtaking one coming-can often move over to the NS to allow greater margin of error & tells overtaker that:
a) I've seen them
b) I'm not about to get road rage.

[Steffan]

V8forweekends said:

As long as you are certain your judgement's OK - I've been forced to slow a little or a lot and one time to do an emergency stop by oncoming cretins who either thought they had time or didn't care.

That is the essence of the matter I think. The whole responsibility of effecting such overtaking rests solely on the overtaking driver. If the oncoming driver is forced to slow down, brake rapidly or deviate from his approach then the overtaker is driving without due cars, driving without reasonable consideration for other road users or committing dangerous driving offences.

The dissapearance of three lane roads acrooss the UK and introduction of white diagonals in centre of the road boxes indicating no overtaking whatever where three lanes used to be demonstrates the concern that the authorities have for overtaking. Regrettably I can see blanket 20 mile an hour limits coming in many urban areas and national speed limits on ordinary roads dropping to less than 50 MPH.

The density of road traffic, growing population and growing number of drivers means that such changes are inevitable. I can see overtaking being outlawed on ordinary two lane roads. Maybe not yet but that is where the future lies. I wish that was not the case but in a crowded island full of cars and with a rapidly rising population it seems almost inevitable to me.

[SK425]

Steffan said:

The dissapearance of three lane roads acrooss the UK and introduction of white diagonals in centre of the road boxes indicating no overtaking

Do you mean as in when the centre lane has been replaced with diagram 1040.2? 'No overtaking' isn't what that means at all.

[Red Devil]

SK425 said:

Steffan said:

The dissapearance of three lane roads acrooss the UK and introduction of white diagonals in centre of the road boxes indicating no overtaking

Do you mean as in when the centre lane has been replaced with diagram 1040.2? 'No overtaking' isn't what that means at all.

It wouldn't surprise me to find that is indeed what he meant.
There are a great many people who have that exact misconception.

[Kawasicki]

standards said:

If I'm driving the oncoming car I prefer to see the overtaking one coming-can often move over to the NS to allow greater margin of error & tells overtaker that:
a) I've seen them
b) I'm not about to get road rage.

I do the same, just smoothly make a little more space. Helps keep everyone calm, I hope.

[Dr Jekyll]

There was a weird one on the A1000 near Brookmans Park a few years back. What was formerly a short stretch of two lane dual carriageway northbound was reduced to single lane by road markings (chevroned areas on each side of the road with solid white lines). Obviously purely to remove the best overtaking opportunity for miles.

[Seesure]

Red Devil said:

It wouldn't surprise me to find that is indeed what he meant.
There are a great many people who have that exact misconception.

90%+ of Joe Public believe those road markings to mean "no over taking"... A48 from Gloucester is a prime example

http://goo.gl/maps/lPpYz

... the amount of people that refuse to overtake and sit diligently at 40mph for mile after mile beggars belief... if you then have the audacity to overtake you get all the usual numpty re-actions... coffee bean shakers, lights being flashed, maniac tailgaters who feel the need to point out it's not British and you should queue in an orderly manner...

[keith2.2]

Once again I've entered this section of the forum and learned something I didn't know.

However - why is it necessary to have a specific "don't overtake unless it's safe" road marking? I can only think the hat it's to say "more hazard than usual"?

[TheInsanity1234]

General rule of thumb in terms of road markings:

If it's not bordered by solid white lines, then it's okay to move into that area