Dealing with Vehicles opposite at a Crossroads

[foxtrotmike]

Can I have some guidance on how to deal with, when waiting at a crossroads, with vehicles also waiting on the opposite side junction.

Street View Example Link, the camera is positioned where my vehicle would be waiting to give way (on the line)
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.303412,-5.106125...

I wish to turn right in this example and the vehicle opposite wishes to go straight on (but you could argue the scenario would be similar if they were turning left.

There is the danger here of both of us emerging at the same time and colliding, particularly as this has to be done swiftly for the density of traffic.

Any ideas how this could be done

[StressedDave]

Take the confusion out of the situation? - stop a little further short of the give way line, let the bloke opposite cross straight over and then make your manoeuvre as normal. Consider the phrase 'priority can only be given, not taken'.

[Red Devil]

Whoever moves first beyond the give way/stop line is now on the major road and should be given precedence. The problem with that is it becomes a bit like a game of chicken. If there is only one car opposite I usually wait for them to make the first move. If there is a long queue behind them though you can end up stuck on your side for an eternity. Any traffic on the major road can play a part in the dance.

Making eye contact is crucial as it provides an opportunity of subsequent communication with the other driver.

Edited by Red Devil on Wednesday 18th June 17:09

[R0G]

The vehicle turning across the path of another should give way - simple

If I am turning right and I impede the progress of the one going road ahead I am in the wrong

[StressedDave]

R0G said:

The vehicle turning across the path of another should give way - simple

If I am turning right and I impede the progress of the one going road ahead I am in the wrong

Except in this case, once you've crossed the Give Way line into the carriageway, you are the one in the road going ahead, hence the potential for confusion.

[7db]

Decide if you want to go first or second.
Make it really really obvious to the other guy.
See if he agrees with you.
Act accordingly.

Seek cooperation then seek refuge.

[R0G]

StressedDave said:

R0G said:

The vehicle turning across the path of another should give way - simple

If I am turning right and I impede the progress of the one going road ahead I am in the wrong

Except in this case, once you've crossed the Give Way line into the carriageway, you are the one in the road going ahead, hence the potential for confusion.

Looked at the google map and its just a slightly offset Xroad junction so my ruling stays the same

Getting over the give way line first does not give the driver turning across the path of the other going ahead the right of way

If you did turn right and either hit the other or the other hit you because you went across their path then you would be at fault - they may apportion a tiny blame to one going ahead if it was deemed that they could have anticipated you doing such a dangerous thing

[SK425]

R0G said:

Looked at the google map and its just a slightly offset Xroad junction so my ruling stays the same

Is the fact that it's offset a bit significant? It looks like it's offset by several feet. What if it was several inches, or a few millimetres?

R0G said:

Getting over the give way line first does not give the driver turning across the path of the other going ahead the right of way

Or alternatively, how about: getting over the give way line second does not give you priority over the driver already on the main road?

[foxtrotmike]

The issue here was not so much who had right of way but when to assert yourself to go, in the situation I had that when you had a gap, it wasn't very big to play about with and had to go, and a situation where you might need to start going just before the last vehicle from the right has passed you

I would have had the same question if the other vehicle instead was turning left.

To give another example, I had a similar situation a while back at the junction below, This time it was a tractor waiting in the central reservation to cross over, which i didn't want to argue with.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.296941,-5.122626...

[R0G]

SK425 said:

Or alternatively, how about: getting over the give way line second does not give you priority over the driver already on the main road?

Like to see you try that excuse in court !

[SK425]

R0G said:

Like to see you try that excuse in court !

You're going to have to clarify. It sounds like you're saying you think a court would decide that someone behind a give way line would have priority over someone on the main road. But I'm sure that isn't what you're saying.

Edited by SK425 on Thursday 19th June 14:16

[R0G]

SK425 said:

You're going to have to clarify. It sounds like you're saying you think a court would decide that someone behind a give way line would have priority over someone on the main road. But I'm sure that isn't what you're saying.

Edited by SK425 on Thursday 19th June 14:16

If I am approaching a give way line to go road ahead and my way ahead is clear on the approach then I have the right to go ahead
If as I approach the vehicle opposite with a right indicator on goes over their give way line and turns across my intended path causing me to take action then they are in the wrong - that's it - there is no case of who goes over a give way line first rule in any highway code publication or written in the RTA as far as I know

[7db]

R0G said:

there is no case of who goes over a give way line first rule in any highway code publication or written in the RTA as far as I know

For the second person: do not cross the giveway line if you will cause another road user to alter course or speed.

[R0G]

7db said:

For the second person: do not cross the giveway line if you will cause another road user to alter course or speed.

Are you saying that the one going ahead who is approaching perhaps at speed because they can see all is clear to the left and right must stop because the slow vehicle turning right just happens to cross the give way line first?

[Dave Hedgehog]

launch control, you will be past them before they have time to react

[7mike]

R0G said:

The vehicle turning across the path of another should give way - simple

It's only simple if the other driver shares your knowledge/opinion. Unless of course, being in the right is more important than not being involved in a crash.

[R0G]

7mike said:

R0G said:

The vehicle turning across the path of another should give way - simple

It's only simple if the other driver shares your knowledge/opinion. Unless of course, being in the right is more important than not being involved in a crash.

I did say should

Glad you agree with me that the one going ahead is legally in the right

[7mike]

R0G said:

I did say should

Glad you agree with me that the one going ahead is legally in the right

I do agree Rog (now there's a first ) and ok, you did say 'should'. Personally; I think eye contact, positioning, looking for movement from the other vehicle/driver is far more important than knowing the rules.

For the benefit of anyone who is still remotely interested, this is from the DSA "Driving, the Essential Skills" (old copy, not going to get ripped off renewing mine every year).

"If you are turning right and the other vehicle is going straight ahead or turning left, you should normally wait for the other vehicle to clear the junction before you make the turn, because you would otherwise be cutting across their path."

[SK425]

R0G said:

Are you saying that the one going ahead who is approaching perhaps at speed because they can see all is clear to the left and right must stop because the slow vehicle turning right just happens to cross the give way line first?

If there's a collision, either driver might find the legality of their driving comes into question. What offence do you want to worry about? There's the give way line offence, for which I can't imagine the question of who crossed first would be irrelevant. Then there's careless driving. I can imagine that approaching at speed while there is someone intending to turn right and turning right across someone who is approaching at speed might each be considered to fall below the standard of a competent and careful driver, regardless of who happened to cross the give way line first.

Happily, it sounds like the OP is much more concerned with avoiding the accident than making sure he's in the right when he has the accident - which I think the first posts from StressedDave and 7db have covered.

[7db]

R0G said:

7db said:

For the second person: do not cross the giveway line if you will cause another road user to alter course or speed.

Are you saying that the one going ahead who is approaching perhaps at speed because they can see all is clear to the left and right must stop because the slow vehicle turning right just happens to cross the give way line first?

Haven't we already done Starks vs CC Hertforshire in the last few weeks? Your speed of approach doesn't affect whether you are required to give way at a give way line.