Stick or Twist: Carrera GTS to Cayman GTS?
Discussion
OK, looking for some opinion on this primarily from those that actually have done something similar or contemplated the same.
Currently have a 997 Carrera GTS w/PDK owned for 3yrs since new and covered 23K - I'm approaching that pivotal point where you may or may not choose to change.
I've been awaiting for Porsche to do something good with the Cayman and although I have loved my 911, i've always thought that the Cayman could possibly be a good car for me also. Ultimately what should i do - hang on to the 997 or take the plunge and move to the Cayman GTS?
I have spent some time test driving Cayman S and found it to be great - particularly with the sports exhaust - the excitement and aural responses are more easily accessible but will I miss the 911 factor and the power? 408hp/310lbft vs 340hp/280lbft although the Cayman is lighter.
There is a financial implication also - but really just looking for thoughts on the cars at the moment.
Currently have a 997 Carrera GTS w/PDK owned for 3yrs since new and covered 23K - I'm approaching that pivotal point where you may or may not choose to change.
I've been awaiting for Porsche to do something good with the Cayman and although I have loved my 911, i've always thought that the Cayman could possibly be a good car for me also. Ultimately what should i do - hang on to the 997 or take the plunge and move to the Cayman GTS?
I have spent some time test driving Cayman S and found it to be great - particularly with the sports exhaust - the excitement and aural responses are more easily accessible but will I miss the 911 factor and the power? 408hp/310lbft vs 340hp/280lbft although the Cayman is lighter.
There is a financial implication also - but really just looking for thoughts on the cars at the moment.
What are the financial implications?
Your 997 GTS (with PDK) will have already taken a big hit in depreciation, so the cost of service and renewing the warranty is likely to be secondary.
The Cayman GTS (with PDK) will cost you more (my presumption) and will depreciate harder.
So you'll pay more for less performance and practicality.
I could understand if you were changing and wanted a manual car but the only reason to swap is for change sake.
No right or wrong but I'd keep the 997.
Your 997 GTS (with PDK) will have already taken a big hit in depreciation, so the cost of service and renewing the warranty is likely to be secondary.
The Cayman GTS (with PDK) will cost you more (my presumption) and will depreciate harder.
So you'll pay more for less performance and practicality.
I could understand if you were changing and wanted a manual car but the only reason to swap is for change sake.
No right or wrong but I'd keep the 997.
Financial aspects are that I have equity in the 997 from my current deal with 9 months or so to run on the fixed term and a ballon payment at the end.
I did already renew the warranty for an additional year earlier this year.
I can use the equity as deposit on the new car and have reduced monthly payments (obviously on the new deal over 3yrs etc) vs current. Or keep the current car on the current deal and then decide at the end to use the car as deposit on another in 9 months or keep it and pay off the ballon. Financially this is about maximising the value of the 997 which whilst holding up now will continue to drop, although reaching the shallower parts of the curve. New cars always have a steep curve. I'm aware of the depreciation discussion - don't want this to be a depreciation thread - and just want to think/talk about the merits or drawbacks of each vehicle vs the other, and whether if you were in my position you would stick or twist for the Cayman GTS, or even look at something else entirely. It is a bit of change for changes sake - but we love cars right?
I did already renew the warranty for an additional year earlier this year.
I can use the equity as deposit on the new car and have reduced monthly payments (obviously on the new deal over 3yrs etc) vs current. Or keep the current car on the current deal and then decide at the end to use the car as deposit on another in 9 months or keep it and pay off the ballon. Financially this is about maximising the value of the 997 which whilst holding up now will continue to drop, although reaching the shallower parts of the curve. New cars always have a steep curve. I'm aware of the depreciation discussion - don't want this to be a depreciation thread - and just want to think/talk about the merits or drawbacks of each vehicle vs the other, and whether if you were in my position you would stick or twist for the Cayman GTS, or even look at something else entirely. It is a bit of change for changes sake - but we love cars right?
Edited by TDT on Sunday 22 June 09:11
I have had 2 - 997's, an S and a GT3. Now in a 981 CS and don't agree with the previous poster about regretting selling up the 911.
If you owned the car outright, I would have thought it made financial sense to stay put, but as you are effectively renting them, why not go for it?
Only one person can ultimately answer this conundrum, as it depends what you want from the car and can only refer back to my opening sentence?
If you owned the car outright, I would have thought it made financial sense to stay put, but as you are effectively renting them, why not go for it?
Only one person can ultimately answer this conundrum, as it depends what you want from the car and can only refer back to my opening sentence?
I would say mainly a daily driver - I use my 997 as much as I can, apart from very short trips.
I do have another car, Jeep Patriot which I use for stuff that the 997 isn't appropriate for.
My wife also has her own car. No Kids yet and rarely use the back seats in the 997.
Have had two seaters as my only car before, so no issue with losing those - nice to have option on the 911 though. So basically i view the Porsche as my main car, the Jeep is my backup.
I do have another car, Jeep Patriot which I use for stuff that the 997 isn't appropriate for.
My wife also has her own car. No Kids yet and rarely use the back seats in the 997.
Have had two seaters as my only car before, so no issue with losing those - nice to have option on the 911 though. So basically i view the Porsche as my main car, the Jeep is my backup.
Currently using a new Cayman S PDK alongside my 911 GTS PDK.
Okay, the Cayman GTS has a touch more power and torque than the S but there won t be much in it on the road confirmed by recent tests.
I find the Cayman quite a good overall package and on an average dry fast B road there wouldn t be much difference in performance between it and the GTS. I find the main difference is at the top end when the GTS would kill the Cayman....you are also more aware you are driving something special and less synthetic with the GTS largely down to its now obsolete but sublime neutral steering (2wd), of course lost on the Caymans electric setup. The typical 997 911 idiosyncrasies also appeal giving it a greater sense of occasion.
I know you specifically weren t iinterested in depreciation etc, but personally I think the GTS will become quite collectable and prices have stayed strong over the last 2years, helped latterly perhaps by the rising prices of 997 GT3s.....
Okay, the Cayman GTS has a touch more power and torque than the S but there won t be much in it on the road confirmed by recent tests.
I find the Cayman quite a good overall package and on an average dry fast B road there wouldn t be much difference in performance between it and the GTS. I find the main difference is at the top end when the GTS would kill the Cayman....you are also more aware you are driving something special and less synthetic with the GTS largely down to its now obsolete but sublime neutral steering (2wd), of course lost on the Caymans electric setup. The typical 997 911 idiosyncrasies also appeal giving it a greater sense of occasion.
I know you specifically weren t iinterested in depreciation etc, but personally I think the GTS will become quite collectable and prices have stayed strong over the last 2years, helped latterly perhaps by the rising prices of 997 GT3s.....
av185 said:
I find the main difference is at the top end when the GTS would kill the Cayman....you are also more aware you are driving something special and less synthetic with the GTS largely down to its now obsolete but sublime neutral steering (2wd), of course lost on the Caymans electric setup. The typical 997 911 idiosyncrasies also appeal giving it a greater sense of occasion.
Having driven 997.2s and a 991 4S with PSE, one thing you'll absolutely notice on the Cayman GTS though is the noise. The Cayman GTS will be louder than a Cayman S with PSE -- in the GTS there's sound tubes coming off the intakes that feed to grates right behind the seats. A Cayman S with PSE is already quite a bit noisier than a current Carrera S with PSE. I'm expecting the Cayman GTS to be on par with a 996 GT3.Goofnik said:
Having driven 997.2s and a 991 4S with PSE, one thing you'll absolutely notice on the Cayman GTS though is the noise. The Cayman GTS will be louder than a Cayman S with PSE -- in the GTS there's sound tubes coming off the intakes that feed to grates right behind the seats. A Cayman S with PSE is already quite a bit noisier than a current Carrera S with PSE. I'm expecting the Cayman GTS to be on par with a 996 GT3.
So yes - this was something that gave me a lot of food for thought, and i mentioned in my initial postI have had a Cayman S with PSE for a day and it was the noise and the amount of noise in comparison to my current car that really stood out over the same route and roads. Roar, pops, bangs and crackles. I know a lot of this comes by having the engine just over your shoulder vs a bit further back, but it really sounded exotic by comparison - some of it is engineered in, but even so I have to be really on it in my 997 GTS to get the same, and on today's roads it's just asking for trouble.
Sensory satisfaction seems to be delivered much more readily in the Cayman S, and to think that the Cayman GTS has been tweaked for even more sound into the cabin. On it's day the 997 GTS has an incredible howl of its own too.
IMI A said:
Sensible thing would be to pay the balloon and own the 997. It will stop depreciating in a few years and may even then start to slightly appreciate.
Agreed! Are you crazy man??? I love the GTS, it's a beautiful car, and my head always spins 180 degrees when I see one on the road. They are heading north in terms of appreciation. Yes, I agree about the exhaust...my Cayman S has PSE which does sound good if a touch boomy..... and probably even better still on the Cayman GTS.
The other thing I didn t refer to was the PDK box on the Cayman which is much quicker and sweeter than the GTS 911.....Cayman throttle blips on downchanges but of course this is nothing new...same on the
E46 M3......
.....
The other thing I didn t refer to was the PDK box on the Cayman which is much quicker and sweeter than the GTS 911.....Cayman throttle blips on downchanges but of course this is nothing new...same on the
E46 M3......
.....av185 said:
The other thing I didn t refer to was the PDK box on the Cayman which is much quicker and sweeter than the GTS 911
Yes, this the evolution of PDK from the 9x7.2 to 9x1 - software changed and recalibration.Really is excellent now and actually adds to the driving experience now in some respects IMO.
Manual 6spd will always have the involvement edge - but as an experience and in every other measurable way PDK has the advantage.
TDT said:
ORD said:
You'd be mad to change. A lot of money for a car that is probably overall about as good and in some ways inferior.
Please elaborate - trying to think about this from all angles.Someone once said the 997 C2S to the 997 GTS is like the 997 GT3 3.8 RS is to the great 997 GT3 4.0 RS. Praise indeed, and not far wrong IMO....
I agree that it’s really a wash. If I had a 997.2 Carrera GTS, I’d stick with it. I’m coming from a Mazda MX-5 though, so I spent a lot of time driving everything up to $100K USD. The Cayman S won me over but I knew the GTS was coming months before it was leaked by Jalopnik, so I left a deposit back in September 2013 and waited first in line until I got my allocation.
Cayman GTS Pros:
* Better overall balance, no pendulum rhythm
* Easier to push to the limit
* Better aural experience (intakes and engine near your head, revised PSE with sound symposers)
* Revised PDK is better
* Optional X73 SS nearly eliminates all safety understeer compared to PASM
* More cargo space
* Better fuel efficiency
997.2 Carrera GTS Pros:
* Better off-line traction, corner exit speeds, top end and low-end
* Higher limit, easier to recover when you overstep the limit
* Lighter front end and hydraulics offer classic 911 feel and feedback
* Rear seats
* Depreciation nearly over, will soon appreciate
My second place car? Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG Coupe 507 Edition, of all things. Mad car is mad, but I couldn’t see myself driving it forever. The Cayman GTS is a modern Dino 246 GTS, whereas it’ll never be considered beautiful, but will always be considered very handsome and is just a great driver’s car.
Cayman GTS Pros:
* Better overall balance, no pendulum rhythm
* Easier to push to the limit
* Better aural experience (intakes and engine near your head, revised PSE with sound symposers)
* Revised PDK is better
* Optional X73 SS nearly eliminates all safety understeer compared to PASM
* More cargo space
* Better fuel efficiency
997.2 Carrera GTS Pros:
* Better off-line traction, corner exit speeds, top end and low-end
* Higher limit, easier to recover when you overstep the limit
* Lighter front end and hydraulics offer classic 911 feel and feedback
* Rear seats
* Depreciation nearly over, will soon appreciate
My second place car? Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG Coupe 507 Edition, of all things. Mad car is mad, but I couldn’t see myself driving it forever. The Cayman GTS is a modern Dino 246 GTS, whereas it’ll never be considered beautiful, but will always be considered very handsome and is just a great driver’s car.
Edited by Goofnik on Sunday 22 June 19:41
av185 said:
TDT said:
ORD said:
You'd be mad to change. A lot of money for a car that is probably overall about as good and in some ways inferior.
Please elaborate - trying to think about this from all angles.Someone once said the 997 C2S to the 997 GTS is like the 997 GT3 3.8 RS is to the great 997 GT3 4.0 RS. Praise indeed, and not far wrong IMO....
BUT the 997 probably has better steering, certainly has more power and is costing you fairly little. The Cayman would be easier to drive fast, sound better and be newer but cost you an arm and a leg.
Given that, even money being no object, the answer isn't obvious, I wouldn't drop thousands of pounds per year on the change.
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