Complaint email to 2nd in command at Jag, long!!!
Discussion
To be honest, it does sound like you've had a pretty bad experience, and I'd be annoyed as well. However, I certainly wouldn't be wasting time phoning the dealers and swearing at receptionists. A few decent, well written emails would almost certainly have got you the desired result, whilst simultaneously wasting a lot less of everybody's time.
I hate keyboard warriors just as much as anyone else, but I suspect those who are judging you are doing so because you're coming across as exactly the kind of person we all hate to deal with. Think about it - if someone had been rude to your staff would you go out of your way to help them?
I hate keyboard warriors just as much as anyone else, but I suspect those who are judging you are doing so because you're coming across as exactly the kind of person we all hate to deal with. Think about it - if someone had been rude to your staff would you go out of your way to help them?
timbo1969 said:
Fact and it came from the horses mouth, my R is the only one they've sold so far so if its not 30k its got to be 20-25k more. At the end of the day if your buying a car for 10k or 100k there are still stds you expect and yes maybe i expected those stds to be better because of the money i spent but i didnt recieve them, till now!!
well, I for one would be happy buying a car without contracting chlamydia, genital warts, herpes, thrush or any other std's you'd care to mention........By the sounds of it a lot was self-inflicted potentially.
For a new car it is pretty likely there are going to be delays. It doesn't seem to matter what company. If it was me in your situation I'd much rather wait the bit of extra time to get things sorted out properly. That way you treat people with respect and are less likely to come across issues due to things being rushed.
I also don't understand your post here. You start getting mouthy about people giving you abuse on here, yet admit to having made someone cry? So why should you not be treated the same way your treat others?
That said, it's a lot of money and I can understand the annoyance, but I feel you went about it the wrong way by trying to push it like the dealership and factory revolve around you.
For a new car it is pretty likely there are going to be delays. It doesn't seem to matter what company. If it was me in your situation I'd much rather wait the bit of extra time to get things sorted out properly. That way you treat people with respect and are less likely to come across issues due to things being rushed.
I also don't understand your post here. You start getting mouthy about people giving you abuse on here, yet admit to having made someone cry? So why should you not be treated the same way your treat others?
That said, it's a lot of money and I can understand the annoyance, but I feel you went about it the wrong way by trying to push it like the dealership and factory revolve around you.
MyM8V8 said:
NRS said:
........... but I feel you went about it the wrong way by trying to push it like the dealership and factory revolve around you.
If you run a business, it revolves around having customers, end of! Or walk away from the deal if it's a problem, not all are easy.Mastiff said:
With the best will in the world, you cannot please all the poeple all of the time. Some people liked to be called regularly - even when the salesman has nothing to tell them.
"I'm really sorry Mr ....., but I'm afraid that there is no change from when we last spoke a week ago, your car is STLL in the order pool, and as per our previous conversation, until I get my build allocation I have no idea how many cars they will build for us. Consequently, at the moment I cannot give you a delivery date".
Sounds easy doesn't it. But it isn't.
The fact is that MOST people who deal at this level are very busy people, born out by the fact that they can afford these products in the first place. MOST actually do not want weekly phone calls that offer no constructive information - just pop an email over every so often letting them know that they have not been forgotten. They only really want higher levels of contact in the final couple of weeks prior to handover, as they need to sort out transferring/moving funds, whether or not the insurance want tracker units, that kind of trivia.
The person who does yearn for the constant kind of cuddling that some on this thread think they should be entitled to is usually NEVER happy, regardless of what the salesman tries to achieve. It's a constant cry of "look at me, please look at me, blow some more smoke up my arse"
He will not understand, or care to even try to understand that the Salesman does not build the car, he does not transport the car from factory to dealer (incidentally, once a vehicle is called over the transport company is contracted to deliver that car withinn 4 working days. In that 4 working days ONLY the transport company know where that vehicle is - the factory don't and neither does the dealership). He does not undrestand that the salesman doesn't pre-delivery inspect the car or try and schedule the car in for that work in amongst the work that the service department already has. He doesn't understand that the valeters are busy and are "just tring to get this one through".
The above is not a moan about the job (I can already hear the world's smallest violins playing!), It's my job too and I love it but more an indication of how differently people behave and the effect that it has on the people that they are dealing with.
A customer on the phone every twenty minutes swearing and making my Receptionist cry with their rudeness and bad manners would simply have their deposit refunded and asked to take their business elsewhere. "We thank you for the opportunity but on this occasion, we don't think that we will be able to help you".
A customer who understands that things can move all the time without our control is certainly likely to get better treatment throughout the dealership. We hope that this is the beginning of a relationship after all.
As an aside - the salesman doesn't get paid until the vehicle is delivered, why would he want to do ANYTHING other than get you in that car as quick as he can?
Sorry for long and rambling post
This has been an entertaining and educational thread to read, with comments from both sides of the sales/client divide. "I'm really sorry Mr ....., but I'm afraid that there is no change from when we last spoke a week ago, your car is STLL in the order pool, and as per our previous conversation, until I get my build allocation I have no idea how many cars they will build for us. Consequently, at the moment I cannot give you a delivery date".
Sounds easy doesn't it. But it isn't.
The fact is that MOST people who deal at this level are very busy people, born out by the fact that they can afford these products in the first place. MOST actually do not want weekly phone calls that offer no constructive information - just pop an email over every so often letting them know that they have not been forgotten. They only really want higher levels of contact in the final couple of weeks prior to handover, as they need to sort out transferring/moving funds, whether or not the insurance want tracker units, that kind of trivia.
The person who does yearn for the constant kind of cuddling that some on this thread think they should be entitled to is usually NEVER happy, regardless of what the salesman tries to achieve. It's a constant cry of "look at me, please look at me, blow some more smoke up my arse"
He will not understand, or care to even try to understand that the Salesman does not build the car, he does not transport the car from factory to dealer (incidentally, once a vehicle is called over the transport company is contracted to deliver that car withinn 4 working days. In that 4 working days ONLY the transport company know where that vehicle is - the factory don't and neither does the dealership). He does not undrestand that the salesman doesn't pre-delivery inspect the car or try and schedule the car in for that work in amongst the work that the service department already has. He doesn't understand that the valeters are busy and are "just tring to get this one through".
The above is not a moan about the job (I can already hear the world's smallest violins playing!), It's my job too and I love it but more an indication of how differently people behave and the effect that it has on the people that they are dealing with.
A customer on the phone every twenty minutes swearing and making my Receptionist cry with their rudeness and bad manners would simply have their deposit refunded and asked to take their business elsewhere. "We thank you for the opportunity but on this occasion, we don't think that we will be able to help you".
A customer who understands that things can move all the time without our control is certainly likely to get better treatment throughout the dealership. We hope that this is the beginning of a relationship after all.
As an aside - the salesman doesn't get paid until the vehicle is delivered, why would he want to do ANYTHING other than get you in that car as quick as he can?
Sorry for long and rambling post
A Key Stakeholder (AKA The Customer) Management Tip for the Sales side: You may have nothing new to impart, but if you're talking to them they don't have the time to sharpen that Stake. If nothing else, it means it will hurt less if they do choose to stick it between your shoulder blades. You cannot manage Stakeholders if you're not talking to them.
Clients: Buying a notably expensive car does have many similarities with buying houses (the urge to kill the person who is apparently acting on your behalf because they keep fobbing you off on the phone), but it's probably better if you can manage to look on it as a regular business deal. The Sales Executive will be. This being the case, being clear about what you want, communicating as much of this as possible to the other party at the start, and then sticking with your plan is the way to have as stress-free a transaction as possible.
Final point: I'm a Grammar Nazi by trade, but there's an important point to be made about the original post. It conveys the emotion of the author - incensed. A Proof Read would still have been value added mind...
Spell checking and grammar points welcome.
Edited by ftypical on Thursday 28th August 20:25
LOL, this is one of the few threads I've read all the way thru (sorry through).
Reminds me of the time my mates dad used to run his own car spares shop. A customer would come in fuming about something they'd bought all F'ing and blinding. He'd quite politely say "would you like to walk out the door and come in and try again". He was deadly serious... it was his way of taking control of the situation and getting a "misbehaving child" behaviour under control with him as "parent". If they wouldn't calm down he'd quickly arrange a refund and conclude the deal with "theres your money, now f off and don't come back". The advantage of running your own business and not working for someone else.
As regards to the problem of delivery dates and deposits ... I've ordered a new car thats 6 months turnover for me, and put a £2k refundable deposit on and dont have a date. i assume they will tell me sometime in 2015 when its ready for collection. I guess some people just have difficulty understanding the reaility that a delivery date is not fixed due to issues that can occur on production lines. I'm pretty sure if 1 component is not available for build time (because a component supplier didn't get the right plastic compound sent over becuase of a minor fault in their mixing machine). So it might hold off the full build a couple of days.. depending on where in the car it goes. say an engine mount. Obviously a wiper blade could be added later. I'd prefer to have a car 1 week later if it means the engine doesn't drop out after 3,000 miles or there no annyoing squeak from the brakes when reversing because it was pushed down the line before the works holiday because of an childishlyexcited and impatient customer with delusions of grandeur.
Niw all of this is not of interest to the customer, so Jaguars factory should get a rough schedule and add 2 months to all delivery dates at the factory end which they quote to all dealers. Then they can cal the customer and exceed expectations by saying it wil be available early if there's been no problems. It not like they can go to another factory to order it and some models have up to 1 year waits. especailly on those costing over £90k. (OP sorry can't help takeing the piss, but posting on a forum how much you spent is a bit like telling people how much you earn and what party you vote for).
It doesnt really matter how much you are spending on a car you just have to accept that its hard to get an exact date. I'm quite happy being told "probably late february but maybe march". To think you can demand it ASAP and not get problems or full service is a bit foolish.
OP.. My thoughts are with the dealers when, becuase you've bought a new model with design faults not yet ironed out you'll be back in fuming about how you spent £92k and expected more. My advice would be accept some faults but make sure you get a good loaner while faults are dealt with. And try and keep your cool. You may even want to go to a different dealer for service so the guys dont take turns farting on the seats and hiding bogies in places where you cant find them
Reminds me of the time my mates dad used to run his own car spares shop. A customer would come in fuming about something they'd bought all F'ing and blinding. He'd quite politely say "would you like to walk out the door and come in and try again". He was deadly serious... it was his way of taking control of the situation and getting a "misbehaving child" behaviour under control with him as "parent". If they wouldn't calm down he'd quickly arrange a refund and conclude the deal with "theres your money, now f off and don't come back". The advantage of running your own business and not working for someone else.
As regards to the problem of delivery dates and deposits ... I've ordered a new car thats 6 months turnover for me, and put a £2k refundable deposit on and dont have a date. i assume they will tell me sometime in 2015 when its ready for collection. I guess some people just have difficulty understanding the reaility that a delivery date is not fixed due to issues that can occur on production lines. I'm pretty sure if 1 component is not available for build time (because a component supplier didn't get the right plastic compound sent over becuase of a minor fault in their mixing machine). So it might hold off the full build a couple of days.. depending on where in the car it goes. say an engine mount. Obviously a wiper blade could be added later. I'd prefer to have a car 1 week later if it means the engine doesn't drop out after 3,000 miles or there no annyoing squeak from the brakes when reversing because it was pushed down the line before the works holiday because of an childishlyexcited and impatient customer with delusions of grandeur.
Niw all of this is not of interest to the customer, so Jaguars factory should get a rough schedule and add 2 months to all delivery dates at the factory end which they quote to all dealers. Then they can cal the customer and exceed expectations by saying it wil be available early if there's been no problems. It not like they can go to another factory to order it and some models have up to 1 year waits. especailly on those costing over £90k. (OP sorry can't help takeing the piss, but posting on a forum how much you spent is a bit like telling people how much you earn and what party you vote for).
It doesnt really matter how much you are spending on a car you just have to accept that its hard to get an exact date. I'm quite happy being told "probably late february but maybe march". To think you can demand it ASAP and not get problems or full service is a bit foolish.
OP.. My thoughts are with the dealers when, becuase you've bought a new model with design faults not yet ironed out you'll be back in fuming about how you spent £92k and expected more. My advice would be accept some faults but make sure you get a good loaner while faults are dealt with. And try and keep your cool. You may even want to go to a different dealer for service so the guys dont take turns farting on the seats and hiding bogies in places where you cant find them
In fairness to the OP he has bought a £92k car, and how he chooses to express himself is his business. I think he makes his point pretty clearly, and if dealers choose to patronise people over their grammar, they are foolish to do so. While JLR themselves know, I think, how to treat customers I am not sure that all dealers do.
I think that this comes over from some of the comments from the trade that we have had on here. One example from what Mastiff said - 'He doesn't understand that the valeters are busy and are "just trying to get this one through".' Hello? Explain that one to Adrian Hallmark or whoever, you will soon be out of the JLR business. You don't 'just try to get a 92k car through', and if you think that you do, then there is a problem with your staff, your organisation, your standards or your attitude. I don't mean that pejoratively. It is just wrong. Working hard should not equate to treating you customers or product with disrespect, yet that remains the British way in some places.
IMHO a customer buying at that kind of price thinks that he is buying something very special and wants to be treated accordingly. That isn't poncy, it is a perfectly reasonable expectation. Jaguar promote their cars very much as a lifestyle choice, go to one of their events and you won't be left in any doubt. If I go into an expensive restaurant and spend £300 I would expect some attention from the owner/waiters and if I didn't get it I wouldn't go back. If I am buying a watch at £3000 I know for sure that I am going to be treated extremely well, offered a good deal, plied with champagne, the sales staff are my new best mates, highly informed, probably licking my arse, and at the very least being unbelievably courteous. What's wrong with that? Curiously I would be spending a fraction of what the OP has spent.
If I buy a car, they take the trouble to understand the product, go through the specification process, offer me a fair deal, get the order right, make a bit of a fuss at the handover, recognise me when I go back in, make sure that I am happy with the product, ping me the odd invitation to an event, tell you what, I am going to keep buying from them. Is it that hard to do?
Handing over cars at that price, poorly prepared, outside in the rain, is just unacceptable.
I think maybe there is still a change in mental attitude to be made, by some and by no means by all, in the JLR trade, from treating punters with contempt. What I would also say is that while dynamically, Jaguar are, imho, streets ahead of their competition, I am not sure that feeling of quality is quite there in the cars yet. Maybe its the smell of leather, or its absence, maybe its that total solidity you feel in a high end BMW or a Porsche, maybe it's the tactility of the control surfaces, I'm not sure, but while I doubt if there is anything I would rather take across Europe more than an F-Type, or and XKRS, for their zing, their handling, their noise, their style and their sheer effortlessness while delivering all of the above - grace space and pace for sure - I am not totally sure that, behind the wheel, they quite feel like £100k cars, but they are damn close.
I think that this comes over from some of the comments from the trade that we have had on here. One example from what Mastiff said - 'He doesn't understand that the valeters are busy and are "just trying to get this one through".' Hello? Explain that one to Adrian Hallmark or whoever, you will soon be out of the JLR business. You don't 'just try to get a 92k car through', and if you think that you do, then there is a problem with your staff, your organisation, your standards or your attitude. I don't mean that pejoratively. It is just wrong. Working hard should not equate to treating you customers or product with disrespect, yet that remains the British way in some places.
IMHO a customer buying at that kind of price thinks that he is buying something very special and wants to be treated accordingly. That isn't poncy, it is a perfectly reasonable expectation. Jaguar promote their cars very much as a lifestyle choice, go to one of their events and you won't be left in any doubt. If I go into an expensive restaurant and spend £300 I would expect some attention from the owner/waiters and if I didn't get it I wouldn't go back. If I am buying a watch at £3000 I know for sure that I am going to be treated extremely well, offered a good deal, plied with champagne, the sales staff are my new best mates, highly informed, probably licking my arse, and at the very least being unbelievably courteous. What's wrong with that? Curiously I would be spending a fraction of what the OP has spent.
If I buy a car, they take the trouble to understand the product, go through the specification process, offer me a fair deal, get the order right, make a bit of a fuss at the handover, recognise me when I go back in, make sure that I am happy with the product, ping me the odd invitation to an event, tell you what, I am going to keep buying from them. Is it that hard to do?
Handing over cars at that price, poorly prepared, outside in the rain, is just unacceptable.
I think maybe there is still a change in mental attitude to be made, by some and by no means by all, in the JLR trade, from treating punters with contempt. What I would also say is that while dynamically, Jaguar are, imho, streets ahead of their competition, I am not sure that feeling of quality is quite there in the cars yet. Maybe its the smell of leather, or its absence, maybe its that total solidity you feel in a high end BMW or a Porsche, maybe it's the tactility of the control surfaces, I'm not sure, but while I doubt if there is anything I would rather take across Europe more than an F-Type, or and XKRS, for their zing, their handling, their noise, their style and their sheer effortlessness while delivering all of the above - grace space and pace for sure - I am not totally sure that, behind the wheel, they quite feel like £100k cars, but they are damn close.
Edited by cardigankid on Tuesday 2nd September 20:12
Edited by cardigankid on Tuesday 2nd September 20:16
I don't think that was particularly creditable, nor does he I expect, but lots of people make money without having gone to Eton, and my impression sifting through the email, is that he is reacting to having been treated a bit less well than he expected when buying a car at that price level.
I understand that dealers are under pressure like the rest of us, but why should buying a dinner or a watch be so much more like ice cream and apple pie than buying an F-Type coupe. I am not trying to take sides, it just doesn't make sense to me.
I understand that dealers are under pressure like the rest of us, but why should buying a dinner or a watch be so much more like ice cream and apple pie than buying an F-Type coupe. I am not trying to take sides, it just doesn't make sense to me.
cardigankid said:
I don't think that was particularly creditable, nor does he I expect, but lots of people make money without having gone to Eton, and my impression sifting through the email, is that he is reacting to having been treated a bit less well than he expected when buying a car at that price level.
I understand that dealers are under pressure like the rest of us, but why should buying a dinner or a watch be so much more like ice cream and apple pie than buying an F-Type coupe. I am not trying to take sides, it just doesn't make sense to me.
I find your apparent relation between "having gone to Eton" and the treatment of the receptionist a little odd, unless I've misunderstood. Surely how anyone came by the funds to buy the car, and where they were educated has nothing to do with basic decency and politeness? I can't imagine why going to Eton (or not) would make anyone more or less likely to be rude to a receptionist.I understand that dealers are under pressure like the rest of us, but why should buying a dinner or a watch be so much more like ice cream and apple pie than buying an F-Type coupe. I am not trying to take sides, it just doesn't make sense to me.
I spent a bit more than the figure you mention on a watch once - it was a nice experience but involved coffee not champagne - it is true that I didn't get frustrating delivery delays etc but it wasn't the all singing and dancing affair it seems it should have been - I feel a little cheated.
V8, I don't think that you are a stranger to humour so you know what I mean.
If you bought an expensive watch and only got a coffee I hope that you got a good discount. Try Mappin & Webb at Argyle Arcade in Glasgow next time. You WILL get a deal, and the champagne, and the rest.
Is there some alternative culture in the UK where buyers of high value consumer items get treated badly? Are they going for the masochist market?
If you bought an expensive watch and only got a coffee I hope that you got a good discount. Try Mappin & Webb at Argyle Arcade in Glasgow next time. You WILL get a deal, and the champagne, and the rest.
Is there some alternative culture in the UK where buyers of high value consumer items get treated badly? Are they going for the masochist market?
Edited by cardigankid on Wednesday 3rd September 21:52
Personally I think that everyone buying a new car should be treated in exactly the same manner no matter if it is a £92k car or a £10k one. Why should the cost make a difference to customer care?
We have customers come to us with new XKs and some coming to us with very early X-types or XKs that they have bought for less than a couple of grand. They get treated in exactly the same way.
We have customers come to us with new XKs and some coming to us with very early X-types or XKs that they have bought for less than a couple of grand. They get treated in exactly the same way.
That sounds fine, but I think that you have to expect that someone spending as large a sum as the figures mentioned above is 'buying the dream' and it is incumbent of the manufacturer and dealer to deliver. That is not to say that any purchaser or other customer should not be treated with courtesy.
I assume that they are coming for a service and you are not a main dealer. On the assumption that you charge at dealer rates or below, that would not leave much margin for the extra attention that a new F Type purchase probably merits.
I assume that they are coming for a service and you are not a main dealer. On the assumption that you charge at dealer rates or below, that would not leave much margin for the extra attention that a new F Type purchase probably merits.
Edited by cardigankid on Thursday 4th September 19:17
cardigankid said:
That sounds fine, but I think that you have to expect that someone spending as large a sum as the figures mentioned above is 'buying the dream' and it is incumbent of the manufacturer and dealer to deliver. That is not to say that any purchaser or other customer should not be treated with courtesy.
I assume that they are coming for a service and you are not a main dealer. On the assumption that you charge at dealer rates or below, that would not leave much margin for the extra attention that a new F Type purchase probably merits.
Obviously money is important to you. Do you not think that a 18 or 19 year old could also be "buying the dream" by spending £10k on a new car?I assume that they are coming for a service and you are not a main dealer. On the assumption that you charge at dealer rates or below, that would not leave much margin for the extra attention that a new F Type purchase probably merits.
Edited by cardigankid on Thursday 4th September 19:17
Correct we are not a main dealer and whether a customer brings a brand new Ftype or a 12 year old Xtype to us they get treated in exactly the same way. Why should the value of a car equate to the customer service someone receives?
cardigankid said:
That sounds fine, but I think that you have to expect that someone spending as large a sum as the figures mentioned above is 'buying the dream' and it is incumbent of the manufacturer and dealer to deliver. That is not to say that any purchaser or other customer should not be treated with courtesy.
That's fair enough and from what I read on here I'd say the OP probably did have some right to feel a bit aggrieved about his experience but the issue surely is the childish, spoiled and petulant way he handled it.cardigankid said:
One example from what Mastiff said - 'He doesn't understand that the valeters are busy and are "just trying to get this one through".' Hello? Explain that one to Adrian Hallmark or whoever, you will soon be out of the JLR business. You don't 'just try to get a 92k car through', and if you think that you do, then there is a problem with your staff, your organisation, your standards or your attitude. I don't mean that pejoratively. It is just wrong. Working hard should not equate to treating you customers or product with disrespect, yet that remains the British way in some places.
"Just trying to get this one through" is in inverted commas, to try and convey that it's what is in the customers mind. That it "can't take that long to clean a car, I'm going to have to wait ANOTHER day". If that didn't come across correctly - then thanks for the attitude adjustment.Gassing Station | Jaguar | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff