996 GT3 Mk1 sports exhaust options?

[Singh911]

I am toying with the idea of a sports exhaust for my Mk1 GT3. I wonder if I could get some thoughts on the following
1 my car is an original example under 20k miles. Would I be "ruining" it's authenticity by putting a sports exhaust
2 the manthey option (via jzm) seems v expensive for a filter remap and exhaust. Anyone had experience of cargraphic/Hayward & Scott etc?
3 what performance differences can I expect or just better noise?

Any other thoughts welcome.

Cheers

[mrdemon]

Cargraphic

[mikem7709]

Have a full Cargraphic R system on my mk1, sounds fantastic but probably a little too loud for quiet days now. Zero droning inside the cabin at any speed.

[Slippydiff]

Singh911 said:

I am toying with the idea of a sports exhaust for my Mk1 GT3. I wonder if I could get some thoughts on the following
1 my car is an original example under 20k miles. Would I be "ruining" it's authenticity by putting a sports exhaust
2 the manthey option (via jzm) seems v expensive for a filter remap and exhaust. Anyone had experience of cargraphic/Hayward & Scott etc?
3 what performance differences can I expect or just better noise?

Any other thoughts welcome.

Cheers

How much have you been quoted for the Manthey option ?
It's far from just an exhaust and remap/Cup filter. It also changes the character of the car/engine massively (in a good way)

[Singh911]

Quoted £9500 for the k400 manthey. More than I want to spend. I was thinking more like 3/4k for sports exhaust and refresh suspension (still on original shocks 20k miles).

[Slippydiff]

Buy the M&M exhaust direct (a 'mare to deal with I believe, but the supply Manthey) Cup filter available from Porsche Motorsport. I can point you in the direction of somebody who will do the MAF deletion and do the rest of the conversion for you, it won't cost you £9k, more like £4-5k. It's a superb conversion and well worth doing.

[mikem7709]

Slippy, I thought about going this route recently as I've just had to order replacement Cargraphic headers and cats but the full FVD exhaust is 6000 euro incl tax plus shipping.

I decided to just go with straight replacements in the end being it's already running their software but I do wonder wether any decently thought out and sized system would give very similar results after a session with someone like Wayne Schofield ?

[Slippydiff]

mikem7709 said:

Slippy, I thought about going this route recently as I've just had to order replacement Cargraphic headers and cats but the full FVD exhaust is 6000 euro incl tax plus shipping.

I decided to just go with straight replacements in the end being it's already running their software but I do wonder wether any decently thought out and sized system would give very similar results after a session with someone like Wayne Schofield ?

Mike at Sports and Classic runs a full Cargraphic system on his Mk2 with good results. Wayne S knows how to map them well and get decent gains. Add waynes magic to the Manthey/M&M exhaust system and manifolds and you'd be impressed by the gains.

The manifolds, cats and bigger bore pipework are the key to unlocking Hp in the Mk1, there's little or no gains to be had from running the Cup filter (and all the carbon fibre cold air ducting)as the real gains stem from the use of a less restrictive exhaust.

The MAF deletion and the conversion to Alpha-N I suspect were used for the K400 conversion my Manthey 14 years ago, because it made the job of mapping easier (just revs and throttle angle). I'm sure Neil (Fioran0) will be able to confirm or deny, the K400 conversion is the next best thing to Cup induction conversion for the road (along with an exhaust system that makes the car road useable)

It's a crude (but very effective) conversion and takes the Mk1 to another level, both in terms
of its power delivery, performance and aural stimulation !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PeHWqBAt_rk

@

2mins 57 (and can still be heard at 3mins 20 .....)

4mins 6

This was the first time I'd heard what the car sounded like from outside "on the fly". I was shocked how noisy it was, because from inside the car it's actually very muted and gives no indication it's so strident under load at high revs.

[Singh911]

I'm being a bit thick here but do you mean buy a manthey exhaust from M&M? Ie off their site here http://www.m-m-exhaustusa.com/googlec1010d382bd481...

And get it properly mapped etc?
Cheers

[Slippydiff]

Yep, but M & M is a German company :

http://www.m-m-germany.de/ENG/index.php

Suitable systems on pages 6-9 here :

http://www.m-m-germany.de/CMS/tinymce/jscripts/tin...

Just be warned, they're a pain to deal with !

For mapping speak to Wayne Schofield or PM me.

[nxi20]

Slippydiff said:

Yep, but M & M is a German company :

http://www.m-m-germany.de/ENG/index.php

Suitable systems on pages 6-9 here :

http://www.m-m-germany.de/CMS/tinymce/jscripts/tin...

Just be warned, they're a pain to deal with !

In comparison to trying to buy an exhaust from FVD, M+M are paragons of transparency & communication. To get anywhere with FVD, it seems you have to either be a personal friend of the owner or deal with their US distributor in Miami with a delay of a week for a question to be answered; dealing directly with FVD Germany is an object lesson in frustration. I gave up after weeks of to & froing which got me no closer to having questions answered so that I could actually place an order.

M+M build to order and once placed there is complete radio silence for ~6 weeks. Then you get an email asking for payment & the exhaust gets built the day the money hits their account. That was over the winter when (theoretically) they are not manic with building race exhausts...

[jackal]

Hayward and scott welded a bypass pipe in both my boxes for £90. Sounds fabulous now and pops very loudly when changing down. Made the car so much more engaging pretty much all the time. Like you, I didnt want to alter the car too much.

[BillTheButcher]

Slippydiff said:

It's a crude (but very effective) conversion and takes the Mk1 to another level, both in terms
of its power delivery, performance and aural stimulation !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PeHWqBAt_rk

@

2mins 57 (and can still be heard at 3mins 20 .....)

4mins 6

This was the first time I'd heard what the car sounded like from outside "on the fly". I was shocked how noisy it was, because from inside the car it's actually very muted and gives no indication it's so strident under load at high revs.

That sounds fantastic.

I love how you can hear it bouncing off the scenery for so long after it's gone out of sight.

It even sounds great idling right at the end. I've read a lot about the noise GT3s make at idle. Do they all sound like that (lumpy, impatient and aggressive) or is yours particularly noisy because of the modifications?

[Slippydiff]

They all sound rough and lumpy Christian, the Manthey conversion just exacerbates it further. When it's hot after a proper thrashing, it actually shakes the car at tickover. It's quite cathartic 😴

[BillTheButcher]

[gt3nor]

This will also work quite well:

http://www.cargraphicts.com/en/brands/for-porsche/...

http://www.cargraphicts.com/uploads/tx_templavoila...

[Pugley]

jackal said:

Hayward and scott welded a bypass pipe in both my boxes for £90. Sounds fabulous now and pops very loudly when changing down. Made the car so much more engaging pretty much all the time. Like you, I didnt want to alter the car too much.

+1 as quoted above.

Not wanting to "spoil" the original I was lucky enough to buy second hand silencers from a guy who had fitted the manthey system. Thus preserving my original boxes. The Hayward and Scott mod comes in at a miniscule cost compared to a race system but sounds divine. In reality, the car out performs my ability and the speed limits by a huge margin, so gaining extra HP for road use doesn't really float my boat.
Clearly, for track use you need to spend quite a lot to unleash extra power, it which case go for it.

[andy102]

£90 sounds good, I guess it's still MOT friendly. Any YouTube vids.

[Pugley]

The price for welding the bypass into each silencer is now quoted as £120 inc VAT by Hayward and Scott.

Please note that this price is for a pair of silencers already removed from the car and presented at their workshop. It can be done while you wait if you are prepared to spend a while in the cafe.

If they have to remove and refit the boxes from the car for you, the price will be considerably more as some clamps may need cutting off and replacing.There is also the possibility that the bolts holding the silencers to the mounting frame may shear, resulting in even more expense. Having done this to a couple of 996s it can be very tricky , it just depends how rusty all the fixings are.

[GT3-RS]

I have the M&M x-torq exhaust without Cats (see Below) but I did spec the RSR Secondary silencers (not the ones in the picture).....it sounds very nice...110db now after 4 years.....I had no problems dealing with M&M in fact it was a pleasure my contact was Kaija she's very nice.....all in all a great sounding exhaust with definite power gains when mapped and a few other bits added

Edited by GT3-RS on Wednesday 2nd July 08:26