Rolex Daytona Cosmograph (Paul Newman)
Discussion
I know nothing about watches, but I recently attended a local auction for DPS (Dead Person's S**t) where one of the titular watches came up as a lot. It was slightly unusual because most of the items in the auction were the kind of things you get from probate/house clearances after the family and the trade have cherry picked all the decent stuff. Anyway, there it was, sticking out a bit with its £8000-£9000 estimate (given that most pieces were estimated to go for under £100).
Here's a pic of the item in question:
On the day, it made £31,000. With buyer's premium and the VAT on that, it comes to over £38,000.
Now in my experience the valuers are pretty good with their estimates. Looking up the info on these Paul Newman variants, this example doesn't look like it's a particularly classic example of it's type.
Did the market get carried away (this must have been specialists bidding, us locals tend to bottle at anything over £200!) or was the original estimate way off?
Here's a pic of the item in question:
On the day, it made £31,000. With buyer's premium and the VAT on that, it comes to over £38,000.
Now in my experience the valuers are pretty good with their estimates. Looking up the info on these Paul Newman variants, this example doesn't look like it's a particularly classic example of it's type.
Did the market get carried away (this must have been specialists bidding, us locals tend to bottle at anything over £200!) or was the original estimate way off?
RichB said:
Can't see any red on that dial. Why do the ygo for so much, surely not just because Paul Newman wore one?
From what I've read since the auction, that's exactly why. The only difference between this model and the standard model on which it is based is the dial design. The Art Deco style of the Paul Newman model was not so popular at the time (in terms of sales), so this makes this model much rarer. Then Paul Newman was pictured a few times wearing one prominently and over time it has become escalated for collectors.
The problem with the PN Daytonas is that they're mechanically identical to the normal, and much less rare, Daytonas of the same era. This means that all you need to create a fake PN is a dial and a standard 60s Daytona. The one that went for $1m was some oddity that didn't say 'Daytona' or 'Chronometer' on the face if I recall correctly. That one you've pictured looks like a 'Panda' face ref. 6262 Daytona but I can't be sure!
Either way, the buyer must of been fairly convinced it was genuine to part with £40k for it but assuming it was real they may have got a bargain! I heard somewhere that even the less desirable ones don't dip below £75k all too often.
Hodinkee did a really interesting run down of the PN watches, it's well worth a watch as they're a great bit of quirky Rolex history.
Either way, the buyer must of been fairly convinced it was genuine to part with £40k for it but assuming it was real they may have got a bargain! I heard somewhere that even the less desirable ones don't dip below £75k all too often.
Hodinkee did a really interesting run down of the PN watches, it's well worth a watch as they're a great bit of quirky Rolex history.
Edited by TimLambert7 on Monday 30th June 22:19
For whatever reason, this lot is back up at auction again tomorrow, guide £8000-£10000.
http://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogu...
It's now described as "Rolex Daytona wristwatch with a Paul Newman dial, case marked, serial number 724325" so I don't know if the previous sale fell through because maybe it wasn't a Paul Newman when it left the factory?
Nothing to do with me, just in case you guys who know about these things are interested.
http://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogu...
It's now described as "Rolex Daytona wristwatch with a Paul Newman dial, case marked, serial number 724325" so I don't know if the previous sale fell through because maybe it wasn't a Paul Newman when it left the factory?
Nothing to do with me, just in case you guys who know about these things are interested.
PhilboSE said:
It's now described as "Rolex Daytona wristwatch with a Paul Newman dial, case marked, serial number 724325" so I don't know if the previous sale fell through because maybe it wasn't a Paul Newman when it left the factory?
I'd say that was what happened - "Not as described" or even "fake".However, at <10k, that could be a good buy if you could locate the original type parts and sell on the PN bits!
dom9 said:
I'd say that was what happened - "Not as described" or even "fake".
However, at <10k, that could be a good buy if you could locate the original type parts and sell on the PN bits!
It's a reputable enough auction house so no way would they relist it in the way they have if it was fake. My best guess would be some non-originality, probably the PN dial itself.However, at <10k, that could be a good buy if you could locate the original type parts and sell on the PN bits!
PhilboSE said:
It's a reputable enough auction house so no way would they relist it in the way they have if it was fake. My best guess would be some non-originality, probably the PN dial itself.
Sorry, I wasn't clear... The buyer found it to be a 'fake' PN, not a 'fake' Rolex, if that makes sense?!All the value of these is in the dial. This one looks like it could have been retouched/ restored at some point.. Which would make it (the dial) effectively worthless. The Daytona text looks too thick to my eye.
Even a damaged or missing lume dot will have a catastrophic effect of the dial value. This one appears to have a lume dot and the hand from the 6 o'clock sub-dial rattling around loose inside near the 9 o'clock position.
Assuming the bracelet is original and not aftermarket. 8-10k would still seem cheap for an 18k Yellow Gold Daytona. Get the knackered dial replaced with a Rolex Service dial (the horror) And it'd make a good daily beater.
Even a damaged or missing lume dot will have a catastrophic effect of the dial value. This one appears to have a lume dot and the hand from the 6 o'clock sub-dial rattling around loose inside near the 9 o'clock position.
Assuming the bracelet is original and not aftermarket. 8-10k would still seem cheap for an 18k Yellow Gold Daytona. Get the knackered dial replaced with a Rolex Service dial (the horror) And it'd make a good daily beater.
I expect no-one cares at this point, but just to get closure on this, the item is back up for auction. This time with some rather more honest details:
An 18ct gold Rolex Cosmograph 'Daytona' gentleman's wristwatch, case serial no. 724325, 1½'' diameter, NOTE: The watch is fitted with a Paul Newman dial, the back of which is stamped 'Singer'. This appears to have been restored along with the second hand. The 'Singer' dial would suggest a date of 1960s but the case no. a later date. The watch is sold as seen, please contact the Auction House for further details.
Obviously the last "winner" knew enough to dig into it a bit more and throw it back at the auctioneer as not described. The estimate is now £8,000-£10,000, goodness knows what it's actually worth.
An 18ct gold Rolex Cosmograph 'Daytona' gentleman's wristwatch, case serial no. 724325, 1½'' diameter, NOTE: The watch is fitted with a Paul Newman dial, the back of which is stamped 'Singer'. This appears to have been restored along with the second hand. The 'Singer' dial would suggest a date of 1960s but the case no. a later date. The watch is sold as seen, please contact the Auction House for further details.
Obviously the last "winner" knew enough to dig into it a bit more and throw it back at the auctioneer as not described. The estimate is now £8,000-£10,000, goodness knows what it's actually worth.
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