Can a female legitimately compete in F1?
Discussion
ellroy said:
Dr Jekyll said:
There is (or was until recently) at least one female gunner flying British Army Apache helicopters and she reputedly held the record for the most ammunition fired off in combat in the shortest time.
That tell's you all you need to know about Gunners and nothing at all about women.TheRealFingers99 said:
thegreenhell said:
So, a pretty respectable job in P1 at Hockenheim this morning:
11 Felipe Massa 19 Williams 1:20.542
15 Susie Wolff 77 Williams 1:20.769
Seems that she was faster than Massa at a couple of points -- and neater. 11 Felipe Massa 19 Williams 1:20.542
15 Susie Wolff 77 Williams 1:20.769
Next year when (or if?) there are 3 cars per team, maybe she can quietly suggest to hubby that maybe she should be the third driver for Merc or Williams.
Derek Smith said:
I interviewed a female racing driver and asked her about F1. blah blah blah...................
I'm sure this would be quite obnoxious if it was written well enough for me to actually understand what was being said. The gist seemed to be:Someone did a bad lap time - silly woman.
Man no drive so slow.
TheRealFingers99 said:
thegreenhell said:
So, a pretty respectable job in P1 at Hockenheim this morning:
11 Felipe Massa 19 Williams 1:20.542
15 Susie Wolff 77 Williams 1:20.769
Seems that she was faster than Massa at a couple of points -- and neater. 11 Felipe Massa 19 Williams 1:20.542
15 Susie Wolff 77 Williams 1:20.769
Clearly this morning they weren't achieving their potential.
I'm not saying that was down to Wolff, just that no conclusions can be drawn from that one session.
So suddenly the Williams are 4 seconds faster today and at the top of the grid.
We're all guessing what condition the car was in, but Suzie is trying to prove how fast she is to the world.
No point putting her out in a fully prepared car for the race when she won't race.
Got a feeling we are now seeing the true difference, plus some car improvements, between Suzie's real pace and the real pace of the car.
We're all guessing what condition the car was in, but Suzie is trying to prove how fast she is to the world.
No point putting her out in a fully prepared car for the race when she won't race.
Got a feeling we are now seeing the true difference, plus some car improvements, between Suzie's real pace and the real pace of the car.
Driver101 said:
So suddenly the Williams are 4 seconds faster today and at the top of the grid.
We're all guessing what condition the car was in, but Suzie is trying to prove how fast she is to the world.
No point putting her out in a fully prepared car for the race when she won't race.
Got a feeling we are now seeing the true difference, plus some car improvements, between Suzie's real pace and the real pace of the car.
Everyone was faster today because they where on the supersoft tyres which are 2 seconds a lap quicker than the softs they ran on Fri, a track that's rubbered in and low fuel, it's called qualifying. It's uncomparable.We're all guessing what condition the car was in, but Suzie is trying to prove how fast she is to the world.
No point putting her out in a fully prepared car for the race when she won't race.
Got a feeling we are now seeing the true difference, plus some car improvements, between Suzie's real pace and the real pace of the car.
FourWheelDrift said:
Driver101 said:
So suddenly the Williams are 4 seconds faster today and at the top of the grid.
We're all guessing what condition the car was in, but Suzie is trying to prove how fast she is to the world.
No point putting her out in a fully prepared car for the race when she won't race.
Got a feeling we are now seeing the true difference, plus some car improvements, between Suzie's real pace and the real pace of the car.
Everyone was faster today because they where on the supersoft tyres which are 2 seconds a lap quicker than the softs they ran on Fri, a track that's rubbered in and low fuel, it's called qualifying. It's uncomparable.We're all guessing what condition the car was in, but Suzie is trying to prove how fast she is to the world.
No point putting her out in a fully prepared car for the race when she won't race.
Got a feeling we are now seeing the true difference, plus some car improvements, between Suzie's real pace and the real pace of the car.
The only way Suzie is going to get credit is having her name at the top of the tables.
Putting her out in a fully loaded car to register 15th in a car with so much potential isn't going to make much people think wow.
My guess is she was in a car prepared to be much faster than Massa and Bottas on Friday.
The opinion that was given earlier was Super softs were only worth 1 second here.
Edited by Driver101 on Saturday 19th July 16:00
Edited by Driver101 on Saturday 19th July 17:45
Edited by Driver101 on Saturday 19th July 17:46
Driver101 said:
The only way Suzie is going to get credit is having her name at the top of the tables.
Putting her out in a fully loaded car to register 15th in a car with so much potential isn't going to make much people think wow.
My guess is she was in a car prepared to be much faster than Massa and Bottas on Friday.
Clearly she's never going to get any credit as long as people have attitudes like this. Even if she had gone fastest overall it would have been put down to her having a faster, lighter car.Putting her out in a fully loaded car to register 15th in a car with so much potential isn't going to make much people think wow.
My guess is she was in a car prepared to be much faster than Massa and Bottas on Friday.
Edited by Driver101 on Saturday 19th July 16:00
The only conclusion to be drawn from this is that she was 0.2s off Massa in the same session in the same car. The team have said that both cars were 'on the same programme', and frankly they have no reason to do anything else on a race weekend when they're in such a tight championship battle over 3rd place with Ferrari. There's no logic to them jeopardising that battle just to save a wee girl from looking too slow.
thegreenhell said:
Clearly she's never going to get any credit as long as people have attitudes like this. Even if she had gone fastest overall it would have been put down to her having a faster, lighter car.
The only conclusion to be drawn from this is that she was 0.2s off Massa in the same session in the same car. The team have said that both cars were 'on the same programme', and frankly they have no reason to do anything else on a race weekend when they're in such a tight championship battle over 3rd place with Ferrari. There's no logic to them jeopardising that battle just to save a wee girl from looking too slow.
What has she done in her career that makes you think she is fast?The only conclusion to be drawn from this is that she was 0.2s off Massa in the same session in the same car. The team have said that both cars were 'on the same programme', and frankly they have no reason to do anything else on a race weekend when they're in such a tight championship battle over 3rd place with Ferrari. There's no logic to them jeopardising that battle just to save a wee girl from looking too slow.
If they were that concerned about the championship, they'd have their main drivers getting as much time on track as possible.
Giving Suzie time in the car is a hindrance to the team in that respect.
Edited by Driver101 on Saturday 19th July 16:43
Durzel said:
Isn't that the case with Wolfe too though? She wouldn't be where she is now based on merit, compared to other more worthy female drivers. The real danger, if one can call it that, is if she becomes the first female driver and is terrible - as skeptics won't be able to look past the gender when assessing her performance.
Reminds me of this xkcd panel:
For Wolff to win this one, she'd have to be putting in consistently better times than Hamilton, her driving a dumper truck, Hamilton the Mercedes. And then there would be claims that it was the wrong time of the month (for Hamilton).
""[Niki] Lauda said Williams should have dispensed with its usual Friday practice programme in order to allow Susie to impress the world with a scintillating laptime.
"Rather than the same fuel and the same tyres as Massa, she should have got soft rubber and low fuel -- and then been a lot higher up.
"Williams unfortunately missed the chance to do global women's racing a big favour."
"But I take off my cap to Susie.""
""[Niki] Lauda said Williams should have dispensed with its usual Friday practice programme in order to allow Susie to impress the world with a scintillating laptime.
"Rather than the same fuel and the same tyres as Massa, she should have got soft rubber and low fuel -- and then been a lot higher up.
"Williams unfortunately missed the chance to do global women's racing a big favour."
"But I take off my cap to Susie.""
Edited by TheRealFingers99 on Friday 25th July 20:38
Mr_Thyroid said:
I'm sure this would be quite obnoxious if it was written well enough for me to actually understand what was being said. The gist seemed to be:
Someone did a bad lap time - silly woman.
Man no drive so slow.
Next time I want to interview a woman racing driver, I'll ask her to contact you so she knows how to protect your prejudices.Someone did a bad lap time - silly woman.
Man no drive so slow.
Dr Jekyll said:
Efbe said:
it is society that pushes barbies/families/babies at girls, and guns/cars/war at boys. This should be unbelievably obvious.
That is simply not true. 'Society' frowns on any children playing games involving guns or war. Many parents actually ban their children from having toy guns, but the children themselves especially the boys start making rudimentary replica guns out of anything that comes to hand.I did know a very right on parent who was pleased to see her very young son playing with his older sisters doll, but it turned out the game consisted of tying the doll up and cutting her head off.
funny though. love the idea of boys just inventing guns themselves.
I babysit my elder daughter's two kids, girl older, boy younger. We are under instructions to not dictate what they play with so Pepper Pig (if anyone is thinking of having kids, watch Nick jnr and see the next 8 years of your life) is the lad's and George [pig] is the girl's. The lad doesn't play guns and both love Little Tike cars. The favourite programme on TV for the girl was Thomas the Tank Engine and when the real TtTE came to Sussex, it was the girl who wanted to see it and the boy who was bored.
Both play with 'dolls', none of which are gender specific, both PPig and GPig and neuters.
I've got 4 kids, two of each, and such concerns were only beginning to surface 40 years ago and we avoided guns (although an Apache attack helio sneaked in one Xmas when the news carried pictures of them firing into the forest on a weekly basis). This wasn't through hard beliefs but from concerns of my wife, which I fully agreed with. Odd, really, as at that time I was in my force's firearms unit, part of the lead pair, so I was firing 180 rounds of live ammo every fortnight and more.
Yet for my kids and for two of my grandchildren, there are noticeable differences in behaviour. We, and my daughter and son-in-law, try to treat them regardless of gender but allow them freedom of behaviour. Certainly there are common behavioral traits that are common to the boys and the same with the girls. We didn't try and fight it for our kids and my daughter follows the same path.
My experience proves nothing given the low numbers but friends report the same thing: boys will be boys seems to be right in some ways.
My daughter has a large circle of friends with kids, both boys and girls. None have guns. There are no girly toys and boyey toys as the play groups, and yet when you see a group of 30/40 kids playing, the boys play differently in general.
One mother with an older boy was complaining that he, at the age of 7 or so, was becoming interested in guns and becoming aggressive. She wondered why, although did confess to the lad playing computer games with her husband. One wonders what these games were.
I like the change in the way kids are brought up. Certainly my experience is that they all play well together regardless of gender. No one is forced to play with one type of toy, and both play with dolls, although boys tend to play with male dolls and girls with female ones.
Both play with 'dolls', none of which are gender specific, both PPig and GPig and neuters.
I've got 4 kids, two of each, and such concerns were only beginning to surface 40 years ago and we avoided guns (although an Apache attack helio sneaked in one Xmas when the news carried pictures of them firing into the forest on a weekly basis). This wasn't through hard beliefs but from concerns of my wife, which I fully agreed with. Odd, really, as at that time I was in my force's firearms unit, part of the lead pair, so I was firing 180 rounds of live ammo every fortnight and more.
Yet for my kids and for two of my grandchildren, there are noticeable differences in behaviour. We, and my daughter and son-in-law, try to treat them regardless of gender but allow them freedom of behaviour. Certainly there are common behavioral traits that are common to the boys and the same with the girls. We didn't try and fight it for our kids and my daughter follows the same path.
My experience proves nothing given the low numbers but friends report the same thing: boys will be boys seems to be right in some ways.
My daughter has a large circle of friends with kids, both boys and girls. None have guns. There are no girly toys and boyey toys as the play groups, and yet when you see a group of 30/40 kids playing, the boys play differently in general.
One mother with an older boy was complaining that he, at the age of 7 or so, was becoming interested in guns and becoming aggressive. She wondered why, although did confess to the lad playing computer games with her husband. One wonders what these games were.
I like the change in the way kids are brought up. Certainly my experience is that they all play well together regardless of gender. No one is forced to play with one type of toy, and both play with dolls, although boys tend to play with male dolls and girls with female ones.
Derek Smith said:
stuff
I am a little shocked of the things I am hearing tbh. I'm not sure if it's just you trying to push a point obstructively, or complete and utter unawareness of the world
I used to be a teacher, and have three kids of my own now, alongside being a children's football coach & referee, so maybe I do have a bit of a broader background in the area.
Quite simply, look down the brands/sections of toys on here:
http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Browse/ID72/33007361...
There are boys, girls, and more general toys.
The ones aimed at boys and girls specifically are bloody obvious.
Yes children may like playing with toys aimed at the other gender, but by 8 or 9 they will definitely know which toys they should be playing with. You ask a 10yo boy if he likes playing with barbies; he may say yes to you. Ask him at school with his friends and he will say no. By this age there is a complete understanding amongst kids of their 'proper' toys.
Maybe not nearly as much so as Ben10, Spiderman or TMNT, but unfortunately cars do fall under the boys bracket.
I spent this afternoon with about 8 toddlers. The boys fight over the nee-nahs and tractors while the girls fought to push the pink pram with the baby doll. There's often not much crossover, but drawing games and curiously plastic kitchens seem to be fair game for all.
I hadn't really clicked that we were supposed to be avoiding war related toys, though I seem to have a vague memory of my own mother being given some grief because we had plastic cowboys and indians. Probably should've shown him less of those RIAT videos then. MORE AIRPLANE!!
I hadn't really clicked that we were supposed to be avoiding war related toys, though I seem to have a vague memory of my own mother being given some grief because we had plastic cowboys and indians. Probably should've shown him less of those RIAT videos then. MORE AIRPLANE!!
Derek Smith said:
Mr_Thyroid said:
I'm sure this would be quite obnoxious if it was written well enough for me to actually understand what was being said. The gist seemed to be:
Someone did a bad lap time - silly woman.
Man no drive so slow.
Next time I want to interview a woman racing driver, I'll ask her to contact you so she knows how to protect your prejudices.Someone did a bad lap time - silly woman.
Man no drive so slow.
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