Discussion
so I,m chatting with Elliot and he asks "has anyone been caught cheating in super comp then dad"."not to my knowledge" but it did get me thinking.Has anyone heard of anyones aunt or neighbour doing the deed
No names required just a brief outline on how.Forget Matty boxes cause that's not in this country or is it?????
No names required just a brief outline on how.Forget Matty boxes cause that's not in this country or is it?????
Deborah, you need to be careful when accusing people of cheating.
As far as Rev Limiters are concerned, the rules are quite clear (quote from FIA rule book)...
IGNITION
Timed ignition-interruption devices (stutter boxes) prohibited.
Starting-line and/or “high-side” rev limiters permitted. Twosteps,
Rev limiters or any other rpm-limiting devices, legal
unto themselves but altered or installed so as to function as a
down-track rpm controller, prohibited.
Are you saying that you know of people who have altered rev limiters "so as to function as a down-track rpm controller"?
If so, you should protest them, so it can be officially proved.
As to what you call a "Start Line Controller", I presume you mean air throttles? They are questionable under the rules, but could be considered as "any other rpm-limiting devices", and all those I know of are used to limit fuel into the motor whilst on the two step in stage. Which is a safety feature. They are also legal in Pro Mod. And we've always allowed Pro Mods into Super Pro.
And, no, I don't run either a two step or an air throttle. But I do have a rev limiter to try to keep the rods in the block if the drivetrain breaks.
Martyn
As far as Rev Limiters are concerned, the rules are quite clear (quote from FIA rule book)...
IGNITION
Timed ignition-interruption devices (stutter boxes) prohibited.
Starting-line and/or “high-side” rev limiters permitted. Twosteps,
Rev limiters or any other rpm-limiting devices, legal
unto themselves but altered or installed so as to function as a
down-track rpm controller, prohibited.
Are you saying that you know of people who have altered rev limiters "so as to function as a down-track rpm controller"?
If so, you should protest them, so it can be officially proved.
As to what you call a "Start Line Controller", I presume you mean air throttles? They are questionable under the rules, but could be considered as "any other rpm-limiting devices", and all those I know of are used to limit fuel into the motor whilst on the two step in stage. Which is a safety feature. They are also legal in Pro Mod. And we've always allowed Pro Mods into Super Pro.
And, no, I don't run either a two step or an air throttle. But I do have a rev limiter to try to keep the rods in the block if the drivetrain breaks.
Martyn
MartynJones said:
Deborah, you need to be careful when accusing people of cheating.
As far as Rev Limiters are concerned, the rules are quite clear (quote from FIA rule book)...
IGNITION
Timed ignition-interruption devices (stutter boxes) prohibited.
Starting-line and/or “high-side” rev limiters permitted. Twosteps,
Rev limiters or any other rpm-limiting devices, legal
unto themselves but altered or installed so as to function as a
down-track rpm controller, prohibited.
Are you saying that you know of people who have altered rev limiters "so as to function as a down-track rpm controller"?
If so, you should protest them, so it can be officially proved.
As to what you call a "Start Line Controller", I presume you mean air throttles? They are questionable under the rules, but could be considered as "any other rpm-limiting devices", and all those I know of are used to limit fuel into the motor whilst on the two step in stage. Which is a safety feature. They are also legal in Pro Mod. And we've always allowed Pro Mods into Super Pro.
And, no, I don't run either a two step or an air throttle. But I do have a rev limiter to try to keep the rods in the block if the drivetrain breaks.
Martyn
I'm not accusing anyone of cheating who hasn't already been accused by others, and in one case admitted it in an open meeting which I attended along with others.As far as Rev Limiters are concerned, the rules are quite clear (quote from FIA rule book)...
IGNITION
Timed ignition-interruption devices (stutter boxes) prohibited.
Starting-line and/or “high-side” rev limiters permitted. Twosteps,
Rev limiters or any other rpm-limiting devices, legal
unto themselves but altered or installed so as to function as a
down-track rpm controller, prohibited.
Are you saying that you know of people who have altered rev limiters "so as to function as a down-track rpm controller"?
If so, you should protest them, so it can be officially proved.
As to what you call a "Start Line Controller", I presume you mean air throttles? They are questionable under the rules, but could be considered as "any other rpm-limiting devices", and all those I know of are used to limit fuel into the motor whilst on the two step in stage. Which is a safety feature. They are also legal in Pro Mod. And we've always allowed Pro Mods into Super Pro.
And, no, I don't run either a two step or an air throttle. But I do have a rev limiter to try to keep the rods in the block if the drivetrain breaks.
Martyn
Some people will always look for loopholes/advantages in rules and it's up to the rule makers to write rules in such a way that they are unambiguous and when challenged can be proved one way or the other.
Do I know if anyone is cheating at the moment? I've no idea, but I'd like to think not.
The digital programmable 7 by MSD has the ability to act as a slew rate limiter (possible traction control) I had one after checking with Hauser and the scrutineers that those boxes were legal although never used the slew rate function. This is similar to devices others have said are used to cheat on cars up to TMD. I have thought about throttle controllers to help keep her tame just off the line. Not sure though.
Miss Information said:
Cars running 10 seconds or quicker can use them provided they only record and don't activate any functions on the car.
I'm asking myself why the ten second cut-off? I used a logger to keep an eye on the ratio of input and output revs of my Powerglide, this was to be able to quickly identify if the transmission/torque converter was starting to cause problems. Without the logger, you'd be chasing all over the place and wasting valuable track time whilst looking for reasons why performance is dropping off. In this case, it would be the same for a SuProET or SPET car. Miss Information said:
pontiacpro said:
Ie heard of data loggers been used in bracket racing....is that not illegal??
Cars running 10 seconds or quicker can use them provided they only record and don't activate any functions on the car.This is overridden by:
ET 9.2 Data Recorder: Prohibited, except for cars running 10.00 (*6.40) or quicker.
GSR 9.2 outlines what is legal as a data logger/recorder and what isn't.
Interesting that Mr PontiacPro has suddenly disappeared after making the statement that there's cheating in Sportsman ET. I'd love to see who is cheating in SP/ET and how they're doing it but I guess he won't be making a protest will he. I can say from experience that those who accuse others of cheating and don't make a protest are usually those who know very little about drag racing and even less about how to read a rulebook. It seems to me to be entirely based upon "someone is doing something different to us and I paid a lot of money for someone to put together my race car and to set it up, and I'm not winning enough".
This sort of issue was occurring in F1 years ago. The difficulty back then was the same as it is now. You have a box of tricks fitted that has functionality on it that is perfectly legal, but it also has functionality that is not.
The difficulty is proving what is in use and what is not, without trawling through each vehicles settings after every pass. If you put in a protest you need to be confident that if their is foul play, that it can be proved, or your protest is a waste of time.
The difficulty is proving what is in use and what is not, without trawling through each vehicles settings after every pass. If you put in a protest you need to be confident that if their is foul play, that it can be proved, or your protest is a waste of time.
hmmmm interesting, I did hear of two situations, now this was only speculation and most probably wrong but.
Vehicle 1 had a sensor in the front stub axle/wheel and was told to remove
vehicle 2 had a staging device and was told to remove,
What really amazes me is that in this country what is there to gain? vast sums of winnings? i think not. still everyone to their own,
Vehicle 1 had a sensor in the front stub axle/wheel and was told to remove
vehicle 2 had a staging device and was told to remove,
What really amazes me is that in this country what is there to gain? vast sums of winnings? i think not. still everyone to their own,
Turn7 said:
And, forgive my ignorance, but how do you cheat in a heads up index class ?
By using something that's against the rules to give you an advantage. For example, optical devices that detect when the tree runs and open the throttle at precisely the right point to give you a great RT every time. Or those that detect where you are on the track and whether you're on target for your desired ET, adjusting the throttle accordingly to ensure you cross the line at the right moment. Or those using traction control. I'm not going to name names, but I've raced against people using traction control. I didn't object because it wasn't giving them enough of an advantage for it to bother me. I suspect there are people deliberately breaking the rules in most of the sportsman classes. And probably several of the pro classes too. No, I don't understand it. But I guess that for some people, winning is everything.Well, I know who definitely isn't cheating in SP/ET.
Other posters are correct, the prize money in Sportsman ET certainly doesn't justify cheating. The biggest prize though is the SPRC championship, which pays your entry fees for the following year. For five rounds that is around a thousand pounds you don't need to find for the next season. That is far and away the biggest expense for most of us.
Suddenly the goal posts move...
Other posters are correct, the prize money in Sportsman ET certainly doesn't justify cheating. The biggest prize though is the SPRC championship, which pays your entry fees for the following year. For five rounds that is around a thousand pounds you don't need to find for the next season. That is far and away the biggest expense for most of us.
Suddenly the goal posts move...
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