Israeli

[Lost soul]

kitz said:

In the Independent today Robert Fisk makes the statement
'Dozens of British supporters of Israel serve in the Israeli army'
I think that on their return their passports should be shredded,
and they should be deported

there is rightly no problem with Brits serving in a legitimate armed force aboard unlike the muslim terrorists fighting in Syria

[peterpeter]

allnighter said:

o help you out here's a compiled list of landlocked countries, and Israel is NOT one of them:

As for the absurd and ridiculous notion that you adopt in this forum against those who deplore the deaths of innocent Palestinian new-born/unborn babies, toddlers, mums dads, grandparents, hospital patients, doctors and nurses as a direct result of careless Israeli air, land and sea attacks on densely populated areas in Gaza, as being Hamas sympathisers without showing a shred of evidence to support your silly claim, just shows your select bias, but don't worry , you're up against stiff competition from the Israel apologists camp for silly comments.
Those of us who refuse to dance to Israel's lies and propaganda have also condemned Hamas, their lies and propaganda, and their targeting of civilians. So unless you provide evidence of the contrary Jim Boy, try and think before you hit the 'enter' button please.Please, pretty please with sugar on top.

Lots of love and kisses...

Allnighter, this guy is a fool and has been on this forum for the last 10 years- he was spouting on about how the Iraq war was such a great idea at the time and that Blair/ Bush were brave leaders doing the right thing-

if that isn't the definition of a fool, I don't know what is and if he cannot still see the clear wrongs in this situation he is beyond help

[anonymous-user]

The elephant in the room is Israel's long term aims in relation to total domination, control and annexation of Palestine, or commitment to a two state solution. Signs show that they have no intention of sharing and, quite tellingly, no supporters of Israel on here have had the balls to stand up and put their faith in Israel's willingness to share. It's because you all know that, deep down.

[Scuffers]

Guam said:

Lost soul said:

there is rightly no problem with Brits serving in a legitimate armed force aboard unlike the muslim terrorists fighting in Syria

I seem to recall being a Merc is against the law here now, so why should it be any different because its a national army?

since when?

lot of UK nationals working in anti-piracy as effectively mercenary's just for starters.

to me, this is just another bleeding hearts bullst issue for the hand-wringing press.

IDF is not a terrorist organisation, in the same way the UK army are not.

also, have you any idea just how many of our countrymen work for foreign militaries?

[supersingle]

RedTrident said:

Give over, no one in this thread has at any point supported Hamas or been anti Semitic. Don't get me wrong, certain posters have regularly thrown these accusations around in the hope that they can stifle debate and distract away from the actions of a state that are employing tactics comparable to the Nazis to kill women and children.

As for the obvious, we all see it, an ongoing avoidance by Israel to create a viable Palestinian state and the end of Settlement building. I see today's news is that Israel have blown up the tv stations to make it more difficult for them to report, and the port and power station also. This isn't about attacking Hamas, rather about punishing the people of Gaza for electing Hamas.

Wrong.

Go back through the thread and you'll see the posts that have been binned.

[otolith]

Silent1 said:

This is interesting reading, it's a document sent to people likely to appear on the media supporting israel, it's typically for american based people but it's still worth the read as it gives an interesting insight into how anything can be spun:
Israel Global Language Dictionary

Both sides are spinning. See;

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-282929...

Which includes;

BBC said:

Meanwhile, Hamas officials have offered guidelines on social media use by civilians in Gaza in a video posted online.

In it, civilians are told not to publish images of rockets or missiles in central Gaza and to always mention "innocent civilians" when writing about casualties.

"There is nothing wrong with publishing images of the injured," it adds.

[The Don of Croy]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Would that actually be so bad? If the 'occupied' peoples were assimilated as arab subjects within greater Israel (like former East Germans?) and then become part of a vibrant economy with full voting rights? Then they'd just out-populate their 'jewish' brethren and effect control via the ballot box in a couple of generations...or decide they quite like living in an advanced democratic state living in peace with it's neighbours, and life will go on.

Well, until Tehran goes nuclear, at least.

Or Syria fully implodes and then scatters fighty nutters throughout the ME.

Or Egypt goes full-on Brotherhood and exacts revenge.

There's so many negative scenarios, no?

[otolith]

The issue with Brits fighting jihad abroad is the risk of them becoming further radicalised and returning home to commit acts of terrorism here. Trying to be even handed by pretending that this is a general problem with fighting for any foreign army is at best misguided and at worse disingenuous - the concern is specifically with jihadists. That's not unfair, that's a realistic assessment of risk.

[anonymous-user]

Don of Croy,

Why would Muslims and Christians want to live by a Jewish constitution, why should they? For the same reasons the Jewish wanted their own state to live by their own rules and culture.
Here's a clue, there are Christians in Palestine, proof that not all Palestinian Muslims are nut-job fundamentalists.
So what have all those worst case scenarios about other countries got to do with Israel sharing land with the Palestinians?
Seriously though, ask yourself this, do you really think the Jews in Israel would allow the Muslim and Christian population to gain power through population growth?

[otolith]

Guam said:

Thats a fair point, however according terrorist status to organisations is as much a consequence of political positioning as it is of their actions.

Like it or not Fisk does have a point, I am unsure whether those returning will be able to use such examples as those fighting for Israel in their defence, lets not forget, its not that long ago that Parliament voted on whether we should support these guys when they were in Syria.

It seems to me a blanket ban is the simplest solution to the issue.

The concern is people leaving to fight on ideological grounds where the ideology is hostile to Western society. There would be similar worries, I think, if there were still communist revolutionaries to go and fight beside, or white supremacists in Africa. People who do it for the money or the career aren't so worrying.

[Mermaid]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

A Palestinian as PM of Israel in less than a 100 years? Why not, there are examples of oppressed people making it to the top of the tree.

[Mermaid]

Funkycoldribena said:

Mermaid said:

Hamas want to be treated fairly and with respect. And want some land back. Do not want the blockade. Want some money - a deal to be done. me thinks.

You really are worrying...I really dont know what to say.

Empathy is what is needed, according to a Cambridge Professor.

Watch this at 39.20 onwards

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b04cntls/news...

[IroningMan]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Isn't there already a substantial non-Jewish minority in Israel?

[Mr Snap]

Guam said:

otolith said:

The concern is people leaving to fight on ideological grounds where the ideology is hostile to Western society. There would be similar worries, I think, if there were still communist revolutionaries to go and fight beside, or white supremacists in Africa. People who do it for the money or the career aren't so worrying.

Perhaps, the problem is we have had people do this on those grounds before (Spain being the most notable example), Action was not taken against them and I fail to see why this time it will be different? Unless they state they are intending to act against our society where are the grounds? Dont get me wrong I would love for these nutjobs to be left where they are and never allowed back, I just dont see a practical means of doing so?

It would go against a long standing principle first stated by Elizabeth I. Who, when urged by her counsellors to force her Catholic subjects to become Protestant said no, as she did not want to force her subjects to choose either way. As long as they behaved in public and didn't break the law, she believed their minds were private to themselves.

"I would not open windows into men's souls."

[audidoody]

supersingle said:

RedTrident said:

Give over, no one in this thread has at any point supported Hamas or been anti Semitic. Don't get me wrong, certain posters have regularly thrown these accusations around in the hope that they can stifle debate and distract away from the actions of a state that are employing tactics comparable to the Nazis to kill women and children.

As for the obvious, we all see it, an ongoing avoidance by Israel to create a viable Palestinian state and the end of Settlement building. I see today's news is that Israel have blown up the tv stations to make it more difficult for them to report, and the port and power station also. This isn't about attacking Hamas, rather about punishing the people of Gaza for electing Hamas.

Wrong.

Go back through the thread and you'll see the posts that have been binned.

Anybody equating the actions of Israel with the tactics of the Nazis is proving only that they haven't got the first faintest idea about what the tactics of the Nazis were.

On the other hand you could be correct in equating the consequences of Israeli action to the actions of our own armed forces in Iraq in 2003.

[otolith]

Guam said:

Perhaps, the problem is we have had people do this on those grounds before (Spain being the most notable example), Action was not taken against them and I fail to see why this time it will be different? Unless they state they are intending to act against our society where are the grounds? Dont get me wrong I would love for these nutjobs to be left where they are and never allowed back, I just dont see a practical means of doing so?

It won't be taken, there's nothing we can really do. We will just have to spend a massive amount of public money monitoring them for the next couple of decades.

[TTwiggy]

Guam said:

Lost soul said:

there is rightly no problem with Brits serving in a legitimate armed force aboard unlike the muslim terrorists fighting in Syria

I seem to recall being a Merc is against the law here now, so why should it be any different because its a national army?

I don't believe that the UK has signed up to any treaty on the legal issues of mercenary armies. If they have, then G4S will be in trouble!

[kitz]

audidoody said:

Anybody equating the actions of Israel with the tactics of the Nazis is proving only that they haven't got the first faintest idea about what the tactics of the Nazis were.

On the other hand you could be correct in equating the consequences of Israeli action to the actions of our own armed forces in Iraq in 2003.

Hedy Meyer
Chavka- Raban
Hajo Meyer

All concentration camp survivors make exactly that comparison with Nazi tactics .
I would imagine they have more than a faint idea .

[allnighter]

audidoody said:

supersingle said:

RedTrident said:

Give over, no one in this thread has at any point supported Hamas or been anti Semitic. Don't get me wrong, certain posters have regularly thrown these accusations around in the hope that they can stifle debate and distract away from the actions of a state that are employing tactics comparable to the Nazis to kill women and children.

As for the obvious, we all see it, an ongoing avoidance by Israel to create a viable Palestinian state and the end of Settlement building. I see today's news is that Israel have blown up the tv stations to make it more difficult for them to report, and the port and power station also. This isn't about attacking Hamas, rather about punishing the people of Gaza for electing Hamas.

Wrong.

Go back through the thread and you'll see the posts that have been binned.

Anybody equating the actions of Israel with the tactics of the Nazis is proving only that they haven't got the first faintest idea about what the tactics of the Nazis were.

On the other hand you could be correct in equating the consequences of Israeli action to the actions of our own armed forces in Iraq in 2003.

Bliar took us to Iraq on a a basis of a lie (WMDs), and the subsequent Iraqi civilian deaths was an immoral and criminal act. Bliar should be tried for war crimes IMO.

Israel's blockade of Gaza and the bombardment of its civilians has parallels with Nazi Germany's Warsaw Ghetto when Jews organised armed resistance against the Germans with smuggled and home made weapons (sounds familiar doesn't it?) between 1941 and 1943. The underground resistance consisted of about 100 Jewish groups (google Z.O.B).The fighting organization is unified, strategies are planned, underground bunkers and tunnels are built(Sounds familiar?), and roof-top passages are constructed. The Jews of the Warsaw ghetto prepare to fight to the end.
In April 1943, after the German troops and police entered the ghetto,the Warsaw ghetto uprising began when 750 Jewish fighters fought the heavily armed and well trained Germans and were able to hold out for nearly a month before the revolt ended in May 16th 1943. The Germans managed to crush the revolt and 7000 Jews were shot(sounds familiar?).
Like I said nobody knows fully well what it's like to live in a ghetto, be treated like second class citizens, be humiliated, and be deprived of the basic human rights that we take for granted like Jews do.
So why is Israel replicating the Warsaw experience on Palestinians in Gaza and wonder why resistance by a radical organisation is supported by ordinary Palestinians who were at the receiving end of Israel's war machine, and not only that, give more excuses to recruit more Palestinian Jihadists to join the ranks of Hamas to avenge the death of their loved ones be they babies, toddlers, mothers, fathers,aunts, uncles etc...)

Israel should make it a 1st amendment never to replicate atrocities committed in the past like the Warsaw ghetto uprising subsequent collective punishment by Nazis in honour for all the Jews who met their deaths. It's shameful that its actions ignore that historical stain on our so-called civilised and compassionate conduct towards each other.That stain is now consigned to history books and belligerence is the order of the day regretfully.


It's madness

Edited by allnighter on Tuesday 29th July 11:50

[drivin_me_nuts]

Are the actions of those who point their bombs the way of Israel acting in a way that is anti Israelie or a way that is anti semitic? and in the bigger scheme of things, does that actually make a difference.

... bomb because you are in Israel
... bomb you because you are Jewish