Discussion
Hi, I've been searching a lot about bump steer mods you can do to the Tuscan.
I've read about rack spacers, sag arms and flipping the track rod ends on the standard arms.
There was a bump steer kit group buy a few years ago with new track rods that allowed flipping and rack spacers. Anyone know of anything similar these days?
If not then is there anything special that needs to be done to the track rods to flip them? Are they interference fit? Or is it as simple as it sounds?
Cheers all.
I've read about rack spacers, sag arms and flipping the track rod ends on the standard arms.
There was a bump steer kit group buy a few years ago with new track rods that allowed flipping and rack spacers. Anyone know of anything similar these days?
If not then is there anything special that needs to be done to the track rods to flip them? Are they interference fit? Or is it as simple as it sounds?
Cheers all.
I have just completed a full refurbishment on my Tuscan front end.
I have replaced top and bottom ball joints and track rod ends. I have fitted new shocks all round, Gaz Golds at 12 clicks front and back . Tyres at 25psi.
I have set both shims at the front in the top ball joint ( Castor), it has no camber , near to zero as I can get and I have set the front wheels totally parallel no toe in or out etc.
I have set ride height 140mm from the bottom of the outrigger corner front and 150mm rear.
I do not have the rack raised , the track rod ends are the regular way up and the car does have front wheel spacers of 3mm.
It looks a bit like an off road car now with the ride height. The steering is very slightly less sharp on initial turn in, the bump steer is hugely improved, almost to the point of, I now can drive at 60mph on bumpy roads and broadly look for the bump steer if there rather than fight the car.
I have replaced top and bottom ball joints and track rod ends. I have fitted new shocks all round, Gaz Golds at 12 clicks front and back . Tyres at 25psi.
I have set both shims at the front in the top ball joint ( Castor), it has no camber , near to zero as I can get and I have set the front wheels totally parallel no toe in or out etc.
I have set ride height 140mm from the bottom of the outrigger corner front and 150mm rear.
I do not have the rack raised , the track rod ends are the regular way up and the car does have front wheel spacers of 3mm.
It looks a bit like an off road car now with the ride height. The steering is very slightly less sharp on initial turn in, the bump steer is hugely improved, almost to the point of, I now can drive at 60mph on bumpy roads and broadly look for the bump steer if there rather than fight the car.
Which part of 2001 was your car made? If it's post March then it should have the wider rack, in which case shimming up the rack about 8-10mm should sort it. The track rod flipping kit is too much for later cars - I had it fitted to my '00 car before I swapped to the later front setup.
You need to measure it though as cars vary, eg some replacement track rod ends mount the track rod lower to the steering arm than others.
You need to measure it though as cars vary, eg some replacement track rod ends mount the track rod lower to the steering arm than others.
Just finished a major rebuild. Poly bushed everything, all new bolts, ball joints and rod ends. Engine rebuild, clutch conversion and loads of other things just because I'm nuts.
Geo set up with 3 deg camber on rear, 12 minutes a side toe, 1.5 deg camber on front, tiny toe in and 5 deg caster (spacer in front and behind). I did try more caster and it does dull things down but currently I am back to 5 deg, or there abouts. I am going to make adjustable bottom tie bars so I can dial in caster easily. I did have 235/30's on 19s with low offset (wheels further out/wider track) but it feels better on 255/30's all round. Bump steer is almost non existent and in fact it drives better than my Sag, also been aligned on the same machine.
The one thing I don't like and am keen to fix is the touch of over steer you get just as you turn in. I know a lot of people have tried things with the front end but I cant help feel the rear end could be better as well.
Anyway that's me, no bump steer, oh yeah its a very early, 2000, Mk1
Geo set up with 3 deg camber on rear, 12 minutes a side toe, 1.5 deg camber on front, tiny toe in and 5 deg caster (spacer in front and behind). I did try more caster and it does dull things down but currently I am back to 5 deg, or there abouts. I am going to make adjustable bottom tie bars so I can dial in caster easily. I did have 235/30's on 19s with low offset (wheels further out/wider track) but it feels better on 255/30's all round. Bump steer is almost non existent and in fact it drives better than my Sag, also been aligned on the same machine.
The one thing I don't like and am keen to fix is the touch of over steer you get just as you turn in. I know a lot of people have tried things with the front end but I cant help feel the rear end could be better as well.
Anyway that's me, no bump steer, oh yeah its a very early, 2000, Mk1
davidsc said:
Hi, I've been searching a lot about bump steer mods you can do to the Tuscan.
I've read about rack spacers, sag arms and flipping the track rod ends on the standard arms.
There was a bump steer kit group buy a few years ago with new track rods that allowed flipping and rack spacers. Anyone know of anything similar these days?
If not then is there anything special that needs to be done to the track rods to flip them? Are they interference fit? Or is it as simple as it sounds?
Cheers all.
What's wrong with your car ? is it actually a bump steer issue? Have you actually measured anything?I've read about rack spacers, sag arms and flipping the track rod ends on the standard arms.
There was a bump steer kit group buy a few years ago with new track rods that allowed flipping and rack spacers. Anyone know of anything similar these days?
If not then is there anything special that needs to be done to the track rods to flip them? Are they interference fit? Or is it as simple as it sounds?
Cheers all.
Some things suggested are contradictory .. adding castor raises the track rod end potentially increasing any bump steer the car may already have (the same effect as lowering the rack) , but increases steering self centre effect so potentially reducing kickback but also turn in response making the car react less faithfully / violently to steering inputs depending on your viewpoint .. make sure youre addressing the right issue before you start.
Some bump steer kits are in my opinion potentially dangerous! I posted some pics a while ago of one kit that added 8 degrees of toe out from full rebound to full bump, supposedly designed by a suspension expert from a major manufacturer. sheesh!
The bump steer on my Mk1 Tuscan was lethal when I originally bought it and the fact it took your full concentration to hold it in a straight line at 50 mph made it a full on widow maker. (front tracking was causing the driving in a straight line issue - it actually had toe out FFS)
I replaced the ball joints, lower wishbones, upper wishbones, poly bushes, installed AST shocks, front wheel spacers and raised the ride height. This improved it a considerable amount - pot holes no longer cause a change in direction. In my opinion increasing the ride height made the biggest difference and the only reason I raised it is because I could not get over the speed humps where I live - but for example on a motorway where you occasionally get a cambered undulation in the surface I literally might as well be sitting in the passenger seat as it swerves a considerable amount. It still tends to track ruts in the road quite badly as well.
I'll be honest I could never get this car anywhere near its stated top speed even with all the modifications because I have not found a road surface flat enough! I love this car and in 9 months of owning it I have fired the best part of £11k (in parts) into it on top of buying it - but it does not feel part of me when driving it hard - I previously owned a 1983 Alfa Romeo GTV6 that was stripped out with a cage, 3l engine and an LSD - The car would dance to what ever tune you wanted to play - it made you feel invincible when driving because of the confidence it inspired.
With the Tuscan the problem is not managing the power it is the dynamics of the chassis . What I mean by this is - hold a constant speed say 120mph to take the power out of the equation and the effort required to keep the car where you want it is massive. If anyone owns a Tuscan that can cruise at 120 without requiring the same concentration level to gain membership to MENSA please tell me what setup you are running.
I replaced the ball joints, lower wishbones, upper wishbones, poly bushes, installed AST shocks, front wheel spacers and raised the ride height. This improved it a considerable amount - pot holes no longer cause a change in direction. In my opinion increasing the ride height made the biggest difference and the only reason I raised it is because I could not get over the speed humps where I live - but for example on a motorway where you occasionally get a cambered undulation in the surface I literally might as well be sitting in the passenger seat as it swerves a considerable amount. It still tends to track ruts in the road quite badly as well.
I'll be honest I could never get this car anywhere near its stated top speed even with all the modifications because I have not found a road surface flat enough! I love this car and in 9 months of owning it I have fired the best part of £11k (in parts) into it on top of buying it - but it does not feel part of me when driving it hard - I previously owned a 1983 Alfa Romeo GTV6 that was stripped out with a cage, 3l engine and an LSD - The car would dance to what ever tune you wanted to play - it made you feel invincible when driving because of the confidence it inspired.
With the Tuscan the problem is not managing the power it is the dynamics of the chassis . What I mean by this is - hold a constant speed say 120mph to take the power out of the equation and the effort required to keep the car where you want it is massive. If anyone owns a Tuscan that can cruise at 120 without requiring the same concentration level to gain membership to MENSA please tell me what setup you are running.
ChrisTuscan said:
The bump steer on my Mk1 Tuscan was lethal when I originally bought it and the fact it took your full concentration to hold it in a straight line at 50 mph made it a full on widow maker. (front tracking was causing the driving in a straight line issue - it actually had toe out FFS)
I replaced the ball joints, lower wishbones, upper wishbones, poly bushes, installed AST shocks, front wheel spacers and raised the ride height. This improved it a considerable amount - pot holes no longer cause a change in direction. In my opinion increasing the ride height made the biggest difference and the only reason I raised it is because I could not get over the speed humps where I live - but for example on a motorway where you occasionally get a cambered undulation in the surface I literally might as well be sitting in the passenger seat as it swerves a considerable amount. It still tends to track ruts in the road quite badly as well.
I'll be honest I could never get this car anywhere near its stated top speed even with all the modifications because I have not found a road surface flat enough! I love this car and in 9 months of owning it I have fired the best part of £11k (in parts) into it on top of buying it - but it does not feel part of me when driving it hard - I previously owned a 1983 Alfa Romeo GTV6 that was stripped out with a cage, 3l engine and an LSD - The car would dance to what ever tune you wanted to play - it made you feel invincible when driving because of the confidence it inspired.
With the Tuscan the problem is not managing the power it is the dynamics of the chassis . What I mean by this is - hold a constant speed say 120mph to take the power out of the equation and the effort required to keep the car where you want it is massive. If anyone owns a Tuscan that can cruise at 120 without requiring the same concentration level to gain membership to MENSA please tell me what setup you are running.
I see from your profile you have a 2000 car. Did you swap the wishbones for the later ones or the originals. If swapping to the later the upright is drilled in a different position. I replaced the ball joints, lower wishbones, upper wishbones, poly bushes, installed AST shocks, front wheel spacers and raised the ride height. This improved it a considerable amount - pot holes no longer cause a change in direction. In my opinion increasing the ride height made the biggest difference and the only reason I raised it is because I could not get over the speed humps where I live - but for example on a motorway where you occasionally get a cambered undulation in the surface I literally might as well be sitting in the passenger seat as it swerves a considerable amount. It still tends to track ruts in the road quite badly as well.
I'll be honest I could never get this car anywhere near its stated top speed even with all the modifications because I have not found a road surface flat enough! I love this car and in 9 months of owning it I have fired the best part of £11k (in parts) into it on top of buying it - but it does not feel part of me when driving it hard - I previously owned a 1983 Alfa Romeo GTV6 that was stripped out with a cage, 3l engine and an LSD - The car would dance to what ever tune you wanted to play - it made you feel invincible when driving because of the confidence it inspired.
With the Tuscan the problem is not managing the power it is the dynamics of the chassis . What I mean by this is - hold a constant speed say 120mph to take the power out of the equation and the effort required to keep the car where you want it is massive. If anyone owns a Tuscan that can cruise at 120 without requiring the same concentration level to gain membership to MENSA please tell me what setup you are running.
I'd look at the details in sagi badgers post as that is another 2000 car that is going well.
Something very wrong with your setup their chap. My 02 Tuscan S is rock solid and where conditions allow will cruise at 120+ all day. In fact it gets even more stable as the aero starts to work properly and 160+ is no drama at all from a stability standpoint.
My car has nitrons and the 3mm spacers on the front, and that's it. Actually it was setup by Spitfire4v8 some 8 years back now and he did a top job!
My car has nitrons and the 3mm spacers on the front, and that's it. Actually it was setup by Spitfire4v8 some 8 years back now and he did a top job!
Back again and nope not been in hospital following an off!
Spot on handling.
More details,
255 x 30 19 super sport all round, 24 psi
Offset on the front is naughty, like 27 rather than 42. This is due to monster discs on flat bells and 6 pot APs forcing me to use 8mm spacers (cringe) with wheels I don't like (8.5 x 19) but it drives so well. Think normal offset is ET42 so track is 30 wider than intended. Ride height is as low as I dare with fairly soft settings on Gazzo's so now your laughing but trust me it works.
Rear is 35 offset and same wheels with more Gaz golds discs are perhaps with the uprights heavy, 330 diameter with 4 pots, and this can get a colly on over bumps to start a trip sideways but better shock set up will help. Again low as I can.
Only issue I found is the rear wants to step out if you need to lift off mid turn due to others being daft.
Standard wishbones.
J
Spot on handling.
More details,
255 x 30 19 super sport all round, 24 psi
Offset on the front is naughty, like 27 rather than 42. This is due to monster discs on flat bells and 6 pot APs forcing me to use 8mm spacers (cringe) with wheels I don't like (8.5 x 19) but it drives so well. Think normal offset is ET42 so track is 30 wider than intended. Ride height is as low as I dare with fairly soft settings on Gazzo's so now your laughing but trust me it works.
Rear is 35 offset and same wheels with more Gaz golds discs are perhaps with the uprights heavy, 330 diameter with 4 pots, and this can get a colly on over bumps to start a trip sideways but better shock set up will help. Again low as I can.
Only issue I found is the rear wants to step out if you need to lift off mid turn due to others being daft.
Standard wishbones.
J
Haven't looked at this in a while.
I'm off on holiday for 2 weeks tomorrow however on my return I'm having the following done to my Tuscan.
10mm rack spacers
Move shims to max castor
1 degree negative camber & 0.5mm toe in either side for the front.
Rear is already 1.4 negative camber and 1.5mm toe in either side.
Car is running 235/40 & 255/35 tyres - Rainsports as far as I can remember. I'm also getting the wheels refurbed and straightened if needed - I feel a slight wobble at crusing speeds that feels like an unbalanced wheel, it may just be this.
I might have to play with the harshness of the Nitrons, they feel incredibly stiff - anyone know how many adjustments/clicks they have?
I'll keep you updated.
I'm off on holiday for 2 weeks tomorrow however on my return I'm having the following done to my Tuscan.
10mm rack spacers
Move shims to max castor
1 degree negative camber & 0.5mm toe in either side for the front.
Rear is already 1.4 negative camber and 1.5mm toe in either side.
Car is running 235/40 & 255/35 tyres - Rainsports as far as I can remember. I'm also getting the wheels refurbed and straightened if needed - I feel a slight wobble at crusing speeds that feels like an unbalanced wheel, it may just be this.
I might have to play with the harshness of the Nitrons, they feel incredibly stiff - anyone know how many adjustments/clicks they have?
I'll keep you updated.
ChrisTuscan said:
I'll be honest I could never get this car anywhere near its stated top speed even with all the modifications because I have not found a road surface flat enough! I love this car and in 9 months of owning it I have fired the best part of £11k (in parts) into it on top of buying it - but it does not feel part of me when driving it hard -
Chris , I have a mk1 for 5 years and have barely spent anything above maintenance ... I'm just curious what you've found to spend 11k on ? I just can't imagine what suspension parts could add up to that. - mark.
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