V12VS with manual gearbox

[AdamV12V]

Heard a rumour that AM might be about to launch a manual gearbox option on the V12VS.

Also V12VSR (unlimited production run) was mentioned in the same conversation. Will hopefully find out more at the weekend.

[outofstepuk]

So it'll still be 6 figures to change, but with one less point of difference...

Much as I love the manual gearbox, I think they'll be hard pushed to find buyers paying £160k ish considering the last of the V12V's were apparently going for not a great deal over £100k.

[sukh_m]

About time

[hashluck]

AdamV12V said:

Also V12VSR (unlimited production run) was mentioned in the same conversation. Will hopefully find out more at the weekend.

I have also heard this

[outofstepuk]

anyone else just get the email about V12VS then... Limited build slots I guess means how ever many they can sell!

"Available in Coupe form, or as a Roadster for those seeking even more visceral thrills, V12 Vantage S is that rarest of things: A car pulsating with charisma and confidence. A drivers' car without equal.

For more information and to be the first to sign up for limited build slots"

[jonby]

There is currently an embargo on discussing V12VSR :-)

You won't have to wait very long til all becomes clear...........

Regarding manual V12VS, it's been suggested that some dealers have been pushing the factory on behalf of (potential) customers for the option to be made available. Technically, it's actually much easier than making it available in a DSG or conventional auto car as the box & ratios remain the same

I can see the case for it however I suspect the reality is that the ship has passed and it simply won't happen. I just can't see them going back. Nothing is impossible, there is a market case for it and I'm sure both customers and dealers have requested it. But I'd be very surprised if it did happen.

There is some news on transmissions at AM but it doesn't regard Vantage and it isn't about manual :-). Again, all will become clear soon.......

I'd stress that my first and last points are based on fact. However the middle stuff in my post about manual V12VS is something I know nothing about other than the rumour mentioned by the OP which I too have heard from several people

[outofstepuk]

jonby said:

There is currently an embargo on discussing V12VSR :-)

You won't have to wait very long til all becomes clear...........

Regarding manual V12VS, it's been suggested that some dealers have been pushing the factory on behalf of (potential) customers for the option to be made available. Technically, it's actually much easier than making it available in a DSG or conventional auto car as the box & ratios remain the same

I can see the case for it however I suspect the reality is that the ship has passed and it simply won't happen. I just can't see them going back. Nothing is impossible, there is a market case for it and I'm sure both customers and dealers have requested it. But I'd be very surprised if it did happen.

There is some news on transmissions at AM but it doesn't regard Vantage and it isn't about manual :-). Again, all will become clear soon.......

I'd stress that my first and last points are based on fact. However the middle stuff in my post about manual V12VS is something I know nothing about other than the rumour mentioned by the OP which I too have heard from several people

Embargo? Someone should tell HWM not to email the picture and say they are taking orders then...

[IanV12VR]

I think dealers may have known for a few weeks now and been speaking to customers. Wouldn't mind seeing a picture of the V12VSR though

As Jonby says not long know to wait for the official announcement.

[jonby]

outofstepuk said:

jonby said:

There is currently an embargo on discussing V12VSR :-)

You won't have to wait very long til all becomes clear...........

Regarding manual V12VS, it's been suggested that some dealers have been pushing the factory on behalf of (potential) customers for the option to be made available. Technically, it's actually much easier than making it available in a DSG or conventional auto car as the box & ratios remain the same

I can see the case for it however I suspect the reality is that the ship has passed and it simply won't happen. I just can't see them going back. Nothing is impossible, there is a market case for it and I'm sure both customers and dealers have requested it. But I'd be very surprised if it did happen.

There is some news on transmissions at AM but it doesn't regard Vantage and it isn't about manual :-). Again, all will become clear soon.......

I'd stress that my first and last points are based on fact. However the middle stuff in my post about manual V12VS is something I know nothing about other than the rumour mentioned by the OP which I too have heard from several people

Embargo? Someone should tell HWM not to email the picture and say they are taking orders then...

My post crossed with yours - I guess I can talk about it now with the cat being out of the bag. I suspect HWM are at least a day early (I thought the embargo was 16th)

Some dealers have been discussing this with 'obvious' potential buyers, such as V12VR owners, for a week or two. There are at least 6 people who frequent this forum as posters that I know of who have been aware of this. But contact has been by phone - it's a non ltd edition, 'regularly priced' (think c. £148k i.e. 10k premium over coupe), order book effectively already open. I don't really get what HWM mean by 'limited build slots'

[hashluck]

jonby said:

Technically, it's actually much easier than making it available in a DSG or conventional auto car as the box & ratios remain the same

I can see why it would be technically easier since one is a manual and one an automated manual, but it is not a given that the 'box and ratios would remain the same. For example in V8VS the manual and ASM II have completely different ratios (the ASM II having a seventh gear as opposed to the 6-speed of Manual). Diff ratio is also different.

[SFO]

CAR magazine says that V12VSR now available

[jonby]

hashluck said:

jonby said:

Technically, it's actually much easier than making it available in a DSG or conventional auto car as the box & ratios remain the same

I can see why it would be technically easier since one is a manual and one an automated manual, but it is not a given that the 'box and ratios would remain the same. For example in V8VS the manual and ASM II have completely different ratios (the ASM II having a seventh gear as opposed to the 6-speed of Manual). Diff ratio is also different.

you are quite right - it's not a given that they would use the same box. When Vantage started off, ASM '1' was effectively the same as the 6 speed manual

When they updated to ASM '2', they went to 7 speed which they've kept for ASM 3. But on v8 vantage they have indeed kept the original 6 speed manual whilst running with a 7 speed ASM so as you say, it's more than possible they do something similar on V12VS

My assumption is that IF they were so inclined to now offer 3 pedals on V12VS, it would be done by simply using the same box as in ASM but with a clutch pedal because they have worked hard for big improvements (V12V to V12VS) in fuel consumption, emissions & acceleration figures that would be lost with a 6 speed box. Having said that, I still remain sceptical it will happen at all

[jonby]

SFO said:

CAR magazine says that V12VSR now available

assume that's a subscriber copy that's just arrived ?

The journos have known this for a while, again with an embargo - it's amazing how often these embargo dates screw up

I'd reiterate I believe 16th is (was ?) the official embargo date. I suspect HWM have sent the email a day or two early by mistake

having said that, I don't suppose leaks on a car of this nature are consequential plus everyone knows what it will look like and I'd guess the magazine articles will refer to it as 'the inevitable roadster version of the V12VS.......'

[AstonTony]

Whats with the secrecy?

Its not like we are discussing trade secrets - its a car for gods sake

[jonby]

AstonTony said:

Whats with the secrecy?

Its not like we are discussing trade secrets - its a car for gods sake

Dealers get told very little by the factory much in advance - by way of example, on Virage IIRC, dealers found out the same time as the public. .

Factory know as soon as they tell the dealers, despite telling them to keep it 100% confidential, that they will spill the beans so when the factory do inform the dealers, they do it in a calculated manner knowing the dealers will start to spread the word discreetly to favoured buyers/obvious potential customers.

Those kept in the loop tend to keep their mouths shut so as not to upset the dealer that told them or upset the factory, hence some of us on here knowing about V12VSR but saying nothing - I speculated in January on here that it would come out as a non ltd edition run relatively early in the model life but I knew nothing then. As soon as I knew something, I stopped commenting

Why all the secrecy ? Because the announcements are 'managed' with the press for weeks in advance, allowing the press to write the article and perhaps take photos, drive the car, etc. Allows them to plan the content of the magazine in advance. Then they all get to release the info as soon as the embargo date arrive. If the public that knew beforehand weren't sworn to secrecy in the manner described above, it would be all over the internet before the magazines publish on embargo day and spoil the impact of same

But occasionally it screws up, such as now. Not so important on V12VS Roadster but it would have been important on say Vanquish mk2 - that was actually shown to some potential buyers before the press and was being discussed with buyers for months before it was made public.

[AstonTony]

jonby said:

AstonTony said:

Whats with the secrecy?

Its not like we are discussing trade secrets - its a car for gods sake

Dealers get told very little by the factory much in advance - by way of example, on Virage IIRC, dealers found out the same time as the public. .

Factory know as soon as they tell the dealers, despite telling them to keep it 100% confidential, that they will spill the beans so when the factory do inform the dealers, they do it in a calculated manner knowing the dealers will start to spread the word discreetly to favoured buyers/obvious potential customers.

Those kept in the loop tend to keep their mouths shut so as not to upset the dealer that told them or upset the factory, hence some of us on here knowing about V12VSR but saying nothing I speculated in January on here that it would come out as a non ltd edition run relatively early in the model life but I knew nothing then. As soon as I knew something, I stopped commenting

Why all the secrecy ? Because the announcements are 'managed' with the press for weeks in advance, allowing the press to write the article and perhaps take photos, drive the car, etc. Allows them to plan the content of the magazine in advance. Then they all get to release the info as soon as the embargo date arrive. If the public that knew beforehand weren't sworn to secrecy in the manner described above, it would be all over the internet before the magazines publish on embargo day and spoil the impact of same

But occasionally it screws up, such as now. Not so important on V12VS Roadster but it would have been important on say Vanquish mk2 - that was actually shown to some potential buyers before the press and was being discussed with buyers for months before it was made public.

If AM are that pathetic that they embrace pillow talk with the selected few, as far as i am concerned i have a 2010 DBS (MANUAL) for sale.

Absolutely ridiculous.

[jonby]

AstonTony said:

If AM are that pathetic that they embrace pillow talk with the selected few, as far as i am concerned i have a 2010 DBS (MANUAL) for sale.

Absolutely ridiculous.

I'd respectfully suggest that you're getting the wrong end of the stick, perhaps not helped by me not putting the point across well. I'd also suggest again respectfully, you perhaps aren't being very realistic

I wasn't told about vanquish by my dealer ahead of launch because they knew I wasn't (likely to be ) in the market for one. As it happens I was contacted by others outside the dealer network but that's another matter......

But V12VSR is starting to go in to build and I'd find it strange if those that bought V12VR as a brand new, customer specced car, weren't contacted about V12VSR with a short heads up over and above any other potential customer

I'd reiterate that the factory tell the dealers it's 100% confidential. They give less info now, with shorter gaps before it becomes public, because they've learned the hard way that dealers don't keep these things 100% confidential despite the warnings. But they have to tell the dealers some things before they tell the press and I'm simply suggesting the factory are realistic that the dealers will let some info slip when that happens - my guess is that providing it's managed so very little is leaked in public, they live with it.

But they actually often tell the press under embargo before they tell their own dealers, in an attempt to keep such indiscretions managed

I'd love to hear an alternate system that you think could work in the real world ? Have customers call up dealers when they read about a new model in the press, to find the dealer doesn't know about it ? Monitor all calls from dealers to stop them telling their best customers about new cars before embargo dates are lifted ?

Edited by jonby on Tuesday 15th July 12:16

[whoami]

It's been pretty common knowledge for a few months now.

[KarlFranz]

AstonTony said:

If AM are that pathetic that they embrace pillow talk with the selected few, as far as i am concerned i have a 2010 DBS (MANUAL) for sale.

Absolutely ridiculous.

Aww, come on. That is standard practice and is not limited to AML. I was able to put down money and was shown the Gallardo Spider in a special event before the car was even revealed to the press.

[hashluck]

What jonby says is pretty standard marketing practice across any industry and certainly amongst other car manufacturers. Most 'leaks' are carefully orchestrated anyway. There are always good reasons for the way these things are done even if it can be frustrating to many.

Now that the cat is out of the bag, I did see a V12VSR at the factory recently so it is very real.