the new GT4 and spec's, what do YOU want ?

[Gibbo205]

mrdemon said:

Ok lets look what I said 1 by one :-)

the LMX A 565 BHP NA V10 not sure that's generic go-faster crap not many NA v10 cars about these days, and bloody laser lights :-)

2: the TT cabin, not the drive I said the cabin, it looks great imo inc the steering wheel market leading makes the new Porsche range look old again.
also lets not forget its new weight 1230Kg !!!! lighter than any Porsche for years even the Spyder !!!!

3: the Audi Etron A3, the 1st real high mpg company usable car imo with normal power and range.

none of those are generic go-faster crap imo they are all market leading.

AS for the driver well Porsche failed on that account when they went electric steering (and no manual GT3)as it does feel night and day bad over my R and more Audi (even worse in some cases) if any thing Porsche are building the generic go-faster crap , electric steering , 4 pot turbo's, e diffs, electric hand brakes, etc etc

open your eyes ;-)

and as some one else said Plastic fantastic even the 991 GT3 has plastic dash and many did not spec leather, it looks well cheap.
I have driven the full range of new Porsche cars , none are that exciting any more.

As for a hard core Cayman GT3 style, i'll say it again no thanks, it needs to work on B roads full stop very well.
But I would like normal steering with feel 6pots and that 3.8 NA lump with the 918 steering wheel and buckets.

Edited by mrdemon on Thursday 24th July 08:20

Got any links to this new 1230kg Audi TT, sounds like it could be impressive, if they get rid of the understeer the RS had in bucket loads.

Why do you say GT3's don't work on B roads? Maybe you should go out with some of the GT3 guys on a drive at somepoint and try to keep up, they seem to work pretty well to me if the driver is capable.

[mrdemon]

I am not getting into the GT3 thing again, it's not a car which works for me and the roads I drive on.
Nor do the ratio's

If it did I would have a 997 tomorrow. the way most guys have their GT3's set up these days most arrive on trailers to track days !!!

If I want that then I will buy a V6 Exige CUP and still drive it there.

I am a bit lost on the GT3 market, not a great road car to use every day, and imo the V6 Cup car is a better track car for my use.
But then I am lost on the Macan buyer also.

we all like what we like, if the GT4 is not road usable then I just might buy the v6 Exige or the R8 v10 plus.
I don't use the Spyder much as the R is just so good, so it just sits there most of the time, if I buy some thing else over the R then I might use the Spyder more.

Both win over any GT3 by miles, the spyder due to the way it feels light and you can have the roof off, the R because it is so usable and has feel.
I just miss a bit of grunt now and again and a GTS x73 Cayman with 6 pots and the 3.8 lump would do me ok. front GT3 arms would be nice though to dial some camber in, and of course shorter ratio's other wise if the GT4 has PDK-S then I might have to jump ship to a PDK car !!!! PDK ratio's are about spot on in the 981.
doing 81mph in 2nd in the manual is NOT.

I would not rule out the new Audi TTRS either for a daily , as I love that engine but that's a long way off it seems.

Edited by mrdemon on Thursday 24th July 09:39

[Gibbo205]

mrdemon said:

I am not getting into the GT3 thing again, it's not a car which works for me and the roads I drive on.
Nor do the ratio's

If it did I would have a 997 tomorrow. the way most guys have their GT3's set up these days most arrive on trailers to track days !!!

If I want that then I will buy a V6 Exige CUP and still drive it there.

I am a bit lost on the GT3 market, not a great road car to use every day, and imo the V6 Cup car is a better track car for my use.
But then I am lost on the Macan buyer also.

we all like what we like, if the GT4 is not road usable then I just might buy the v6 Exige or the R8 v10 plus.
I don't use the Spyder much as the R is just so good, so it just sits there most of the time, if I buy some thing else over the R then I might use the Spyder more.

Both win over any GT3 by miles, the spyder due to the way it feels light and you can have the roof off, the R because it is so usable and has feel.
I just miss a bit of grunt now and again and a GTS x73 Cayman with 6 pots and the 3.8 lump would do me ok. front GT3 arms would be nice though to dial some camber in, and of course shorter ratio's other wise if the GT4 has PDK-S then I might have to jump ship to a PDK car !!!! PDK ratio's are about spot on in the 981.
doing 81mph in 2nd in the manual is NOT.

I would not rule out the new Audi TTRS either for a daily , as I love that engine but that's a long way off it seems.

Edited by mrdemon on Thursday 24th July 09:39

This new TT RS, 1230kg did you say? Is it available now?

I'd love to try a new Exige, sat in one and turned it on at press release. Not being impressed with them on track, but that is no doubt more driver than car, but then I would point at the ring time and say how come its so slow, an M3 CSL is still quicker which is a superb road car and easy to use as a daily, I did for a year without issue, I even drive my M3 track car on road, its actually very nice.

I would agree on the Spyder, a true epic car and I hope with this glorious weather you've had that roof of and put it to use. I can see if you keep that it will just appreciate. The Cayman R might hold its value not so sure yet, I am not as wowed by the R as you, but we all like different things and I do love the 911's backwards handling, but in the right hands it can be very effective.

Yes 981 gearing is far too long, Porsche should offer like BMW do and sell the rear ratio kits and also offer to fit to remain within warranty, be far better if they did around 65mph in 2nd, 100mph in 3rd and 125mph in 4th, improve acceleration in gear quite a bit and make the car more enjoyable as the manual is superb.

[Carl_Docklands]

mrdemon said:

I am not getting into the GT3 thing again, it's not a car which works for me and the roads I drive on.
Nor do the ratio's

If it did I would have a 997 tomorrow. the way most guys have their GT3's set up these days most arrive on trailers to track days !!!

If I want that then I will buy a V6 Exige CUP and still drive it there.

I am a bit lost on the GT3 market, not a great road car to use every day, and imo the V6 Cup car is a better track car for my use.
But then I am lost on the Macan buyer also.

we all like what we like, if the GT4 is not road usable then I just might buy the v6 Exige or the R8 v10 plus.
I don't use the Spyder much as the R is just so good, so it just sits there most of the time, if I buy some thing else over the R then I might use the Spyder more.

Both win over any GT3 by miles, the spyder due to the way it feels light and you can have the roof off, the R because it is so usable and has feel.
I just miss a bit of grunt now and again and a GTS x73 Cayman with 6 pots and the 3.8 lump would do me ok. front GT3 arms would be nice though to dial some camber in, and of course shorter ratio's other wise if the GT4 has PDK-S then I might have to jump ship to a PDK car !!!! PDK ratio's are about spot on in the 981.
doing 81mph in 2nd in the manual is NOT.

I would not rule out the new Audi TTRS either for a daily , as I love that engine but that's a long way off it seems.

Edited by mrdemon on Thursday 24th July 09:39

I agree with you. Decent points about the TT, I don't think Porsche will catch up with Audi until they switch over to the 918 inspired interior, the current 991 interior has aged faster than Tara Reid.

[ORD]

Carl_Docklands said:

I agree with you. Decent points about the TT, I don't think Porsche will catch up with Audi until they switch over to the 918 inspired interior, the current 991 interior has aged faster than Tara Reid.

I get that to an extent but an interior, as long as not truly horrible, carries extremely little weight in my assessment of a sports car. In a luxury barge, I would car much more. But isn't the whole point of a sports car that you are mostly paying for an engine, a chassis and some good seats?

I quite like the slightly basic but good quality feel of the 987 and 997 interiors, although I agree that the 981 and 991 aren't ageing well in that regard (precisely, to me, because they have tried too hard).

[hondansx]

spyderman8 said:

Actually maybe that's not quite true because it sounds like this car is far closer to a road GT3 than a Cup (although "standard tank" can't be right). Mmm intriguing...

Chris.

Yes, as far as i'm aware it only has a few Cup bits, otherwise it is 'just' a GT3 road car. For anyone looking at GT3s as a track day car, surely tempting to have a better car for c£20k less than market value.

[Steve Rance]

mrdemon said:

I am not getting into the GT3 thing again, it's not a car which works for me and the roads I drive on.
Nor do the ratio's

If it did I would have a 997 tomorrow. the way most guys have their GT3's set up these days most arrive on trailers to track days !!!

If I want that then I will buy a V6 Exige CUP and still drive it there.

I am a bit lost on the GT3 market, not a great road car to use every day, and imo the V6 Cup car is a better track car for my use.
But then I am lost on the Macan buyer also.

we all like what we like, if the GT4 is not road usable then I just might buy the v6 Exige or the R8 v10 plus.
I don't use the Spyder much as the R is just so good, so it just sits there most of the time, if I buy some thing else over the R then I might use the Spyder more.

Both win over any GT3 by miles, the spyder due to the way it feels light and you can have the roof off, the R because it is so usable and has feel.
I just miss a bit of grunt now and again and a GTS x73 Cayman with 6 pots and the 3.8 lump would do me ok. front GT3 arms would be nice though to dial some camber in, and of course shorter ratio's other wise if the GT4 has PDK-S then I might have to jump ship to a PDK car !!!! PDK ratio's are about spot on in the 981.
doing 81mph in 2nd in the manual is NOT.

I would not rule out the new Audi TTRS either for a daily , as I love that engine but that's a long way off it seems.

Edited by mrdemon on Thursday 24th July 09:39

I am truly baffeled as to how you can extract enough of a car's performance on the road to make these judgements. If I drove a GT3 at antwhere near 6-7/10th on the road, I'd be an utter lunatic and they dont begin to show thier true characters until 8-9/10ths. These cars have so much surplus performance over what can reasonably be extracted on the road that it becomes a bit of a nonsense. I think its the driving experience that is probably more overiding on the road, and for me, driving something as close as possible to a GT4 on the road is what i'd be looking for.

[barchetta_boy]

I think that's his point...

[Shnozz]

barchetta_boy said:

I think that's his point...

Indeed. And despite the fact MrD's delivery and know-it-all manner can fook me off as much as the next man (and forum), he often makes a whole lot of sense.

[mrdemon]

:-p

[DiscoColin]

mrdemon said:

Funny how most want some sort of race car which is not usable on the road though.

Er - no. That wasn't the point at all.

The whole premise of the GT3 was that you drive it to the track, you drive it round the track, you drive it home. And if you want, you can drive it in all manner of other places too, but with the acceptance that it really isn't optimised for bumps and pot-holes. The Cayman GT4 (if that is what it is to be) should be a mid engined variation on the same theme. If you want a comfortable road car that is also decent enough to take on the track every once in a while then I am afraid that you were not paying attention : Porsche already make that car, it is called the Cayman GTS and it is very, very good. Moreover, with the GTS available with passive dampers, bucket seats and an LSD: if a road car is what you want then there is nothing else for a "GT4" to bring to the party that you could even nearly benefit from at road legal speeds unless you are just a boost monkey looking for a faster getaway at the traffic light grand prix...

Or is what you are saying really more along the lines that you want a GTS, but with a more exclusive badge...?

[mrdemon]

Have you driven a Cayman R and GTS back to back, I have as have many Cayman R owners we are all keeping our R's !!!

The race car which you can take to the track is done with the GT3, hence why should the GT4 be like that ? Porsche make a car for that, the GT3, just the fan boys say it's a great road car, which it isn't !!!!

I want a great road car for the driver, the GTS is not that nor is a GT3, the GT4 could be that car.
The best cars for the road which you can take to the track are the R and the Spyder, I own both of those already....

Edited by mrdemon on Friday 25th July 17:55

[DiscoColin]

mrdemon said:

Have you driven a Cayman R and GTS back to back, I have as have many Cayman R owners we are all keeping our R's !!!

Nope, but even though this thread isn't about the R it would be interesting to do that. Was the GTS that you drove fitted with buckets, the 20mm lower non-PASM Sports Suspension option and with TC and PSM off? That is the one relevant to this conversation so back to backing it against an R would be a nice task for someone with a little ability and objectivity like Chris Harris or Jethro...

Do we know if anyone on PH has one to that spec to give an owner's perspective? Or indeed to put it up for a PH comparative video review against MrDemon's Cayman R...

[Steve Rance]

mrdemon said:

Have you driven a Cayman R and GTS back to back, I have as have many Cayman R owners we are all keeping our R's !!!

The race car which you can take to the track is done with the GT3, hence why should the GT4 be like that ? Porsche make a car for that, the GT3, just the fan boys say it's a great road car, which it isn't !!!!

I want a great road car for the driver, the GTS is not that nor is a GT3, the GT4 could be that car.
The best cars for the road which you can take to the track are the R and the Spyder, I own both of those already....

Edited by mrdemon on Friday 25th July 17:55

I understand that but why should the 911 be the only Porsche to provide such an experience via the GT3? Especially now that it probably doesn't anyway. I think that it would be fantastic If it could be accessible to drivers who are looking to buy in a different price bracket. It doesn't even need to be bonkers quick, just give the lovely direct and raw visceral experience. The MK1 Elise still takes some beating in this respect.

[BubblesNW]

The Cayman GT4 should be to the Cayman GTS what the 997GT3 was over the 997GTS and the 991GT3 will be over the 991GTS when they make it. It shouldn't be a road legal track car, that the job of the GTxRS. It shouldn't be a race car, that's the job of the GTxRSR/Cup.

If you want a Cayman GT4 RSR/Cup I suspect you will be disappointed as that does not appear to be the direction the company is moving.

It should hopefully move the Cayman from an underpowered sub-brand to a stand alone mid engined range to compete with Lotus and others.

I think and hope the VAG money will allow Porsche to widen the sports car offering to overlap top end 98x with bottom end 99x cars, add a 458 MC12 competitor above the 911 and possibly even a sub 981 level convertible.

If they widen the portfolio they might be able to produce something to please most of us, the posers, the racers, the occasional trackers, the daily drivers etc.

Realistically the market for the caged, raw GT4 some are requesting would be a relative handful worldwide. Porsche would be crazy to produce this without a sanitised road going version first!to mop up the much larger enthusiast market.

[HokumPokum]

Unfortunately, if the gt4 is akin to the mid engine version of the gt3, this will ruin the dreams of a few cayman R owners. I had a cayman R and I still dun get why some owners can't get that it is simply a lightly but well tweaked cayman s. Nothing more and far far away from what a gt3 is to a carrera s


Any who, I am excited for all cayman fans that it is coming and I hope a club sport pack is optional.

[ORD]

HokumPokum said:

Unfortunately, if the gt4 is akin to the mid engine version of the gt3, this will ruin the dreams of a few cayman R owners. I had a cayman R and I still dun get why some owners can't get that it is simply a lightly but well tweaked cayman s. Nothing more and far far away from what a gt3 is to a carrera s


Any who, I am excited for all cayman fans that it is coming and I hope a club sport pack is optional.

I think that's completely fair, but the Cayman S didn't need a lot of fiddling with to be a great drive. It's no GT3, but the small changes make a big difference (see also the rave reviews for how much better the GTS drives than the standard 981).

[mrdemon]

you have gt3 owners swapping cars for the R you have 981 owners going back to the older R

it's the right car for what people now want, and prices are very strong now :-)

[franki68]

For some surely the appeal is the cayman finally getting the performance it's chassis warrants ?

[mrdemon]

For Porsche though, you cannot have a faster Cayman than GT3 or even a 991 S for less money.

It might just be a posh GTS with better body kit, another 10bhp and a bit lighter. still going to be a great car, a modern R.
but then not one I would buy brand new at that cost. yes 2nd hand at 45k 2 years on.

that's what you would expect from Porsche, the mags are giving every one the hype, but I cannot see it having a 3.8.
And that's the only way I would part with my cash for brand new.