Courtesy Car Insurance

[Hatchoo]

A relation has just crashed his courtesy car into another vehicle, no-one was injured, the v. low value courtesy car has been written off and the other car will require extensive repairs.

The garage who supplied the courtesy car have said that they provide no insurance and it's down to him, his insurers have said "you're not covered."

I vaguely remember hearing that legally a courtesy car is a hire car and that car hire companies and garages are required to provide TPO cover under some part of the Road Traffic Act.

Does anyone know anything non-vague about this?

[Hooli]

Surely if they don't provide insurance they have to check you do have insurance before they give you the car? Otherwise they are guilty of allowing use without insurance?

[jbsportstech]

I have had this before and its also been clear at handover whether the car is on my/my companies or their insurance. If that wasn't made clear and no paperwork is in place the garage should use their trade policy, as this was assumed.

Norwich union/Avia used to afford me auto 7 days cover if my insured vehicle was in a garage for repairs ,mot or servicing.

[trashbat]

A fully comp insurance policy usually says something like this from mine:

"The Insured whilst driving any private motor car not their property or hired to them"

I tried to get my insurer to clarify whether a free loan car (in my case, the mechanic's car) would count as hired to me, since I'm not paying anything for it. I couldn't get a good answer out of them and in the end I had it added to my cover for £35.

[Stoofa]

I guess it's all down to what the garage tells you - but assumption of insurance is surely dangerous?
I usually go to the same Skoda maindealer for services etc.
My loan vehicle is totally free, however there is a £500 excess on the included insurance. I can pay £10 and that is for a full waiver - so if I do the worst there is still nothing for me to pay.

But personally wouldn't dream of leaving any garage without something in writing to confirm insurance.

[calibrax]

trashbat said:

A fully comp insurance policy usually says something like this from mine:

"The Insured whilst driving any private motor car not their property or hired to them"

Yes, but that clause only gives 3rd party cover (which is only valid if the vehicle is also insured by someone else and is therefore on the MIB database). So you are insured, but any damage to the car you're actually driving is not covered.

[speedking31]

From Liverpool Victoria

Your car: the insured vehicle shown on your schedule. As well as any vehicle
loaned or hired to you under our Recommended Repairer Service or by
a member of the motor trade while the insured vehicle is in custody
of the motor trade for service, repair or MOT.

I have just used that cover for several weeks.

[tr7v8]

The Mrs has a Poxhall as a courtesy car at the mo whilst hers is being resprayed. It was made clear to me that we'd have to insure it. Being doing Dayinsure at around £50 pw

[tr7v8]

calibrax said:

trashbat said:

A fully comp insurance policy usually says something like this from mine:

"The Insured whilst driving any private motor car not their property or hired to them"

Yes, but that clause only gives 3rd party cover (which is only valid if the vehicle is also insured by someone else and is therefore on the MIB database). So you are insured, but any damage to the car you're actually driving is not covered.

This depends on insurer & has been gone through countless times before. Mine certainly doesn't need the car to be insured by others for DOC to work.

[lbc]

Most people would check as to whom is covering the insurance for any loan vehicle.

LV as already mentioned seem to be the best at covering this situation.

Sometimes the dealer covers any loan car for free if you are a good customer.

Normally you sign a form when given a loan car, and I always ask what I am signing for.

Edited by lbc on Tuesday 15th July 17:48

[Aretnap]

speedking31 said:

From Liverpool Victoria

Your car: the insured vehicle shown on your schedule. As well as any vehicle
loaned or hired to you under our Recommended Repairer Service or by
a member of the motor trade while the insured vehicle is in custody
of the motor trade for service, repair or MOT.

I have just used that cover for several weeks.

The OP talks about a "v low value courtesy car" - I'm guessing that he means a shed provided by a backstreet garage while the relative's car's being serviced, rather than something provided by an insurer's approved repairer while he has repairs done on insurance? The customer's own insurance wouldn't normally cover the former, unless driving other cars cover applied.

Must confess that last time the guy at my usual garage tossed me the keys to his deathtrap loan car, it didn't occur to me to ask about insurance and I just assumed I'd be covered on the garage's policy. I'm wondering if I had a narrow escape in more ways than I'd realised...

Might be helpful if the OP clarified the circumstances.

Edited by Aretnap on Tuesday 15th July 17:57

[Old Merc]

The garage that let the car go should have made it clear to their customer and got them to sign something.
I used to have a car repair business,provided a courtesy car but could not get my Motor Traders Insurance to cover it for anyone other than myself and my employees to drive it.Its a mine field.
If a customer wanted it they had to transfer the cover from their car to my courtesy car.Normally a simple task as their car is in my care and covered by my insurance.
I also had a detailed disclaimer form for them to sign making them aware that they were responsible for everything. Being the registered owner I got parking tickets,speed camera tickets,I even had the police call about a hit and run.No problem for me as I had all the necessary paper work back up and my customer was fully aware of his responsibilities.

Edited by Old Merc on Tuesday 15th July 18:01

[speedking31]

Aretnap said:

speedking31 said:

From Liverpool Victoria

Your car: the insured vehicle shown on your schedule. As well as any vehicle
loaned or hired to you under our Recommended Repairer Service or by
a member of the motor trade while the insured vehicle is in custody
of the motor trade for service, repair or MOT.

I have just used that cover for several weeks.

The OP talks about a "v low value courtesy car" - I'm guessing that he means a shed provided by a backstreet garage while the relative's car's being serviced, rather than something provided by an insurer's approved repairer while he has repairs done on insurance? The customer's own insurance wouldn't normally cover the former, unless driving other cars cover applied.

For avoidance of doubt, LV said "our Recommended Repairer Service or by a member of the motor trade ..."

[Aretnap]

speedking31 said:

For avoidance of doubt, LV said "our Recommended Repairer Service or by a member of the motor trade ..."

D'oh, sorry, should really learn to read. That's quite a handy clause...

Edited by Aretnap on Tuesday 15th July 19:31

[LoonR1]

It'd be good to get the full story of why he was in a courtesy car and who it was from.

[Hatchoo]

Thanks for the replies, sorry not to have responded earlier.

The garage supplied my brother in law with a loan car while carrying out repair work on his venerable Land Rover, so the provision of the car was not connected to work carried out under his insurance. As suspected above by Aretnap the loan car was sub-shed and covering the cost for a replacement is unlikely to be a problem, the real issue is the cost of the third party works as the car he hit was less than 5 years old. The damaged car is currently being assessed for repairs.

I contacted a friend in the trade who spoke to his insurer about third party cover and the advice he was given was that if you pay for your loan car then this qualifies it as a hire car and the provider is legally obliged to provide a minimum of TPO cover to ensure the vehicle is insured. If however the car is leant to you, not for gain, then you are obliged to arrange your own cover, although it would be reasonable to expect the garage to explain the details of this arrangement to you, which they did not.

It's easy to be wise after the act, I have never asked a garage whether I am insured on a loan car but I have been informed by one to arrange my own cover, paid a nominal £10 a day at another and I know that one of my own policies provides TPO cover for any vehicle I drive with the owner's permission so I think I have always had cover, albeit more by luck than judgement.

A financially painful lesson.

[trashbat]

What exactly does his policy (for his normal car) say?

[Hatchoo]

trashbat said:

What exactly does his policy (for his normal car) say?

He's the other end of the country to me so I don't know exactly. I have told him to go over the wording of the policy forensically to ensure that the response of his insurer is correct.

[speedking31]

As you can see above, LV's cover includes MOT at a garage and therefore is not limited to repair following an accident or a claim scenario. Depending on his insurance details, all is not lost yet, however you would expect his insurers to know their own policy correctly.

[trashbat]

Hatchoo said:

He's the other end of the country to me so I don't know exactly. I have told him to go over the wording of the policy forensically to ensure that the response of his insurer is correct.

Good - what I was hinting at in my first post is that it might be worth arguing the toss over courtesy vs hire car - depending on the policy wording and obviously subject to it being a fully comp one that allows him to drive other cars.