The Automatic Gearbox And Its Failings
Discussion
Welshbeef said:
I think the thread has more than swung against the thread title to prove that actually its the auto which is the better over stick shift.
Yep, we seem to have established that the modern Automatic Gearbox doesn't actually have many failings and for most people, most of the time, is superior to a manual.
DJP said:
Welshbeef said:
I think the thread has more than swung against the thread title to prove that actually its the auto which is the better over stick shift.
Yep, we seem to have established that the modern Automatic Gearbox doesn't actually have many failings and for most people, most of the time, is superior to a manual.
There are a few who claim all auto boxes are rubbish and boring as if it's a fact, not based on their opinions. The manual gearbox has a market, the auto gearbox has a market.
These days, the market for a manual is very small indeed.
E65Ross said:
The gearbox in question is from my car, an E65 with the 4.4 V8.
Cerb4.5lee will also hate this because I think he had it in his old X5 (I see a theme here, he keeps buying cars he doesn't like.... X5, M3, 330i...and then moans about them, quite strange! Have you not heard of a test drive, Lee?)
The gearbox in my 7 is absolutely fine. It's smooth and doesn't hunt for gears. My only criticism is that in slow traffic it can shift from 2nd to 1st at around 10mph when I'd rather it stay in 2nd. It's not the fastest gearbox in the world but it suits its application.
To those saying manuals are more fun than autos. Yes, they are. To those saying they would never choose an auto and doesn't understand why some do.... You're being stupid.
Would I want a manual in a Caterham? Yes. Would I want a manual in my 745i? Not for s
t. Totally depends on the application.
I bet you, Cerb4.5lee would think a Rolls Royce Phantom would be better than a manual instead of an auto.
I could fall out with you Ross! you are nice to me in the running thread then slate me in this one! Cerb4.5lee will also hate this because I think he had it in his old X5 (I see a theme here, he keeps buying cars he doesn't like.... X5, M3, 330i...and then moans about them, quite strange! Have you not heard of a test drive, Lee?
) The gearbox in my 7 is absolutely fine. It's smooth and doesn't hunt for gears. My only criticism is that in slow traffic it can shift from 2nd to 1st at around 10mph when I'd rather it stay in 2nd. It's not the fastest gearbox in the world but it suits its application.
To those saying manuals are more fun than autos. Yes, they are. To those saying they would never choose an auto and doesn't understand why some do.... You're being stupid.
Would I want a manual in a Caterham? Yes. Would I want a manual in my 745i? Not for s
t. Totally depends on the application. I bet you, Cerb4.5lee would think a Rolls Royce Phantom would be better than a manual instead of an auto.
The bottom line is I just prefer a manual gearbox and all the alternatives I have experienced for example the auto in my old x5, my current auto in my 330i the s-tronic in our TTS and the DCT in the M3 that I test drove haven't impressed ME one bit but everyone else seems to love those gearboxes which is absolutely fine by me but they aren't my bag.
I have to be honest and accept I am a plonker though because after the auto in my x5 I should have realised that once you hate a gearbox you will always hate it and I should live and learn but in this case I failed!!
E65Ross said:
Would I want a manual in a Caterham? Yes. Would I want a manual in my 745i? Not for s
t. Totally depends on the application. I bet you, Cerb4.5lee would think a Rolls Royce Phantom would be better than a manual instead of an auto.
I have said before that something like a 7 series or Jaguar XJ they certainly need an auto and for me with that type of car the involvement and excitement of the driving experience are very low on the list of priorities to the owners as they are a wafty cruising type vehicle where you just sit back in loads of comfort and watch the world go by so they just wouldn't work with a manual.
cerb4.5lee said:
E65Ross said:
Would I want a manual in a Caterham? Yes. Would I want a manual in my 745i? Not for s
t. Totally depends on the application. I bet you, Cerb4.5lee would think a Rolls Royce Phantom would be better than a manual instead of an auto.
I have said before that something like a 7 series or Jaguar XJ they certainly need an auto and for me with that type of car the involvement and excitement of the driving experience are very low on the list of priorities to the owners as they are a wafty cruising type vehicle where you just sit back in loads of comfort and watch the world go by so they just wouldn't work with a manual.
Sorry for any offence intended; it's just that you seemed to always suggest that no matter what the car, an automatic gearbox is never the right one to have, which isn't true (as the market suggests). But for more fun cars where involvement and thrills are high up the list, then there is definitely a reason for a manual.
Sorry again
E65Ross said:
cerb4.5lee said:
E65Ross said:
Would I want a manual in a Caterham? Yes. Would I want a manual in my 745i? Not for s
t. Totally depends on the application. I bet you, Cerb4.5lee would think a Rolls Royce Phantom would be better than a manual instead of an auto.
I have said before that something like a 7 series or Jaguar XJ they certainly need an auto and for me with that type of car the involvement and excitement of the driving experience are very low on the list of priorities to the owners as they are a wafty cruising type vehicle where you just sit back in loads of comfort and watch the world go by so they just wouldn't work with a manual.
Sorry for any offence intended; it's just that you seemed to always suggest that no matter what the car, an automatic gearbox is never the right one to have, which isn't true (as the market suggests). But for more fun cars where involvement and thrills are high up the list, then there is definitely a reason for a manual.
Sorry again
I accept I do seem to moan about an auto a hell of a lot but I think its just because I prefer a manual so I seem happy to slate the auto! for sure though they both have a place and as this thread has proved the majority actually prefer the auto over the manual.
JagXJR said:
bennyboysvuk said:
Quite right. I think I get more frustrated by these things than other drivers might too, hence my post. I do use the manual shift quite often, but I find on my 12 mile commute that I'll slip the box into manual mode on probably 5 occasions in maybe 20 minutes of driving...which probably suggests that I should have chosen a manual as the auto isn't really suitable for my needs. Oh well, live and learn.
Why does it? You use both manual and auto mode, an autobox has both. A manual has only one mode. Sounds like you bought the right box to me. 
Perhaps the choice of car was the wrong decision?
I did absolutely buy the wrong car. Like M-Sports of old, I was hoping the car would be a good deal more fun than it is.
DonkeyApple said:
I'd certainly never have a diesel manual. Totally pointless. You watch people in manual diesels and the frequency at which they are changing gears is farcical.
That said, I'd far rather drive my 120D manual than my 330i auto. It's so much more rewarding to drive. If I could just swap the engines over, I think I'd be happy (ish).bennyboysvuk said:
That said, I'd far rather drive my 120D manual than my 330i auto. It's so much more rewarding to drive.
I am the same and I didn't think the manual in my old 520d really suited the engine much at all but now I have my 330i auto I am at the point where I would pretty much prefer to drive anything else just for a manual gearbox.I mentioned a few months back that I hired a transit van and it sounds mad but I enjoyed driving that more than my 330i purely based on its gearbox so that gives you a good idea how much more enjoyable I actually find a manual.
cerb4.5lee said:
bennyboysvuk said:
That said, I'd far rather drive my 120D manual than my 330i auto. It's so much more rewarding to drive.
I am the same and I didn't think the manual in my old 520d really suited the engine much at all but now I have my 330i auto I am at the point where I would pretty much prefer to drive anything else just for a manual gearbox.I mentioned a few months back that I hired a transit van and it sounds mad but I enjoyed driving that more than my 330i purely based on its gearbox so that gives you a good idea how much more enjoyable I actually find a manual.
Fox- said:
The F30 330d isn't far off economy wise, is considerably quicker and has a far better soundtrack with far less of the gruffness.
And £5k more expensive. It also depends what you mean by not "far off". A colleague has one and it's much closer to 40 mpg than 50 mpg.
Different car.
sparks_E39 said:
The autobox in my 530i is fantastic, it is almost without fail in the right gear at the right time and to me on the B roads doesn't feel cumbersome or slow. I simply wouldn't want a manual in my current car.
Really?I wouldn't say it was bad as such but I do remember being a bit frustrated at times, that's without ever driving any of the new generation to compare either.
E65Ross said:
cerb4.5lee said:
bennyboysvuk said:
That said, I'd far rather drive my 120D manual than my 330i auto. It's so much more rewarding to drive.
I am the same and I didn't think the manual in my old 520d really suited the engine much at all but now I have my 330i auto I am at the point where I would pretty much prefer to drive anything else just for a manual gearbox.I mentioned a few months back that I hired a transit van and it sounds mad but I enjoyed driving that more than my 330i purely based on its gearbox so that gives you a good idea how much more enjoyable I actually find a manual.
Fox- said:
PomBstard said:
I know what you mean, but I did put about 60,000 miles on a 2001 Bora TDI 115 with the 6 speed manual in about 2 years. Driving up and down the M6/M5/M4 and in/out of London. Plenty of traffic jams, cross-country driving, and motorway. Never once wished for an auto box.
More recently had a go in the Mk6 Golf TDI with DSG, and found it further disengaged me from driving. I just couldn't be arsed to be interested at all. Might be the general opinion of the car, but having no mechanical interaction just made me view it as transport and nothing more. Completely switched off.
DSG isnt auto anyway, it's a clutchless automated manual, but why would you want to be 'engaged' with driving a tedious 2 litre diesel ecobox? In a sports car - absolutely - but nobody buys a 2 litre diesel for it's sporting cred. More recently had a go in the Mk6 Golf TDI with DSG, and found it further disengaged me from driving. I just couldn't be arsed to be interested at all. Might be the general opinion of the car, but having no mechanical interaction just made me view it as transport and nothing more. Completely switched off.
I think I'm just one of the minority that has never considered any car to be better for being an auto. By that, I mean I have never driven a manual and wondered what it would be like as an auto. Whereas every auto I've ever driven has made me want a manual. And I mean every.
But, each to their own.
PomBstard said:
In my view, DSG/DCT/PDK = 2 pedals = automatic. And I'm happy to be engaged in driving any car, 2-litre Diesel or rumbling 6-litre Monaro, and the manual gearbox is a very important connection for me in driving any car. Doesn't have to be a sports car.
I think I'm just one of the minority that has never considered any car to be better for being an auto. By that, I mean I have never driven a manual and wondered what it would be like as an auto. Whereas every auto I've ever driven has made me want a manual. And I mean every.
But, each to their own.
Plus one and nicely said I think I'm just one of the minority that has never considered any car to be better for being an auto. By that, I mean I have never driven a manual and wondered what it would be like as an auto. Whereas every auto I've ever driven has made me want a manual. And I mean every.
But, each to their own.
Love the bit DSG/DCT/PDK = 2 pedals = automatic as this is exactly how I see it too.
bennyboysvuk said:
The manual mode is like driving on a computer game, the engine is barely audible, there's no vibration or feedback at all through the gear lever and I end up looking at the dash to tell what gear I'm in. Not only that, but it changes up on its own at the redline. The manual mode does allow me to let the car know what gear I want, but it's not very interactive compared to a proper manual 'box.
I did absolutely buy the wrong car. Like M-Sports of old, I was hoping the car would be a good deal more fun than it is.
And this is a bad thing?I did absolutely buy the wrong car. Like M-Sports of old, I was hoping the car would be a good deal more fun than it is.
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