Malaysian Airlines 777 down on Ukraine / Russia Border?
Discussion
Boydie88 said:
irocfan said:
makes me glad there aren't a lot of politicians on PH since a lot of peeps on here seem quite bellicose 
So the world should just watch as Russia invades Ukraine, murdering 1000s of civilians whilst doing so and preventing a proper investigation into the downing of a commercial airliner? Where does it stop? Will Putin be happy when he has annexed the whole country?The world is a pretty f
ked up place at the moment and the inaction of the UN/NATO speaks volumes.Boydie88 said:
irocfan said:
makes me glad there aren't a lot of politicians on PH since a lot of peeps on here seem quite bellicose
So the world should just watch as Russia invades Ukraine, murdering 1000s of civilians whilst doing so and preventing a proper investigation into the downing of a commercial airliner? Where does it stop? Will Putin be happy when he has annexed the whole country?The world is a pretty f
ked up place at the moment and the inaction of the UN/NATO speaks volumes.You're right the world is a pretty f
ked up place at the moment when we've got people calling for war against Russia when Russia hasn't threatened us in any way.The fact is what happens/ed in Ukraine has rightly never been any concern of ours and certainly isn't worth risking our own place for.Although I'm guessing that most/all of those shouting for war the loudest won't be volunteering for themselves or their kids to start a fight with Russia.While it's a fair bet that they'll also be the ones running in blind panic to find the 'shelters' rather than stand and face the results of their stupid ideas if/when it all goes strategic nuclear. Rocksteadyeddie said:
Boydie88 said:
irocfan said:
makes me glad there aren't a lot of politicians on PH since a lot of peeps on here seem quite bellicose
So the world should just watch as Russia invades Ukraine, murdering 1000s of civilians whilst doing so and preventing a proper investigation into the downing of a commercial airliner? Where does it stop? Will Putin be happy when he has annexed the whole country?The world is a pretty f
ked up place at the moment and the inaction of the UN/NATO speaks volumes.They've obviously got no comprehension of what they're getting into in the case of a well armed military power with more than enough capability to hit back up to and including long range strategic weapons.
greygoose said:
When are you going to give up on your idea that the world is due to end in a nuclear war?
Trust me assuming that the definition of 'escalation' is factored into the equation there's no way that NATO could start shooting at Russia without that being a highly likely result within days if not hours.Which leaves the question of the US government's defence policy being one which minimises the risk of nuclear attack against the US homeland.Hence NATO's current policy of playing soldiers on Russia's borders in a stupid attempt to limit any such war to Europe while saving itself.XJ Flyer said:
greygoose said:
When are you going to give up on your idea that the world is due to end in a nuclear war?
Trust me assuming that the definition of 'escalation' is factored into the equation there's no way that NATO could start shooting at Russia without that being a highly likely result within days if not hours.Which leaves the question of the US government's defence policy being one which minimises the risk of nuclear attack against the US homeland.Hence NATO's current policy of playing soldiers on Russia's borders in a stupid attempt to limit any such war to Europe while saving itself.
There will not be an end of the world nuclear war because a few (in the grand scheme of things) people have died on a plane and in the Ukraine. Its a ridiculous notion. Russia will not be attacked militarily at all and id bet in a year everything is back to normal in regards to sanctions even.
The only thing that will happen is inaction - its happening right now and has been for a week. Matter of factly about our dear leaders - no one cares about the Ukraine or the people on that plane - they just need to make it seem like they do.
Edited by vescaegg on Tuesday 29th July 15:45
vescaegg said:
The only thing that will happen is inaction - its happening right now and has been for a week.
Indeed, inaction is the most likely action. Poor XJ is busy watching the news on 24 hour loop and building himself up into a fury, aided by profuse sweating caused by the tinfoil hat he is wearing.
vescaegg said:
XJ Flyer said:
greygoose said:
When are you going to give up on your idea that the world is due to end in a nuclear war?
Trust me assuming that the definition of 'escalation' is factored into the equation there's no way that NATO could start shooting at Russia without that being a highly likely result within days if not hours.Which leaves the question of the US government's defence policy being one which minimises the risk of nuclear attack against the US homeland.Hence NATO's current policy of playing soldiers on Russia's borders in a stupid attempt to limit any such war to Europe while saving itself.There will not be an end of the world nuclear war because a few (in the grand scheme of things) people have died on a plane and in the Ukraine. Its a ridiculous notion. Russia will not be attacked militarily at all and id bet in a year everything is back to normal in regards to sanctions even.
The only thing that will happen is inaction - its happening right now and has been for a week. Matter of factly about our dear leaders - no one cares about the Ukraine or the people on that plane - they just need to make it seem like they do.
Edited by vescaegg on Tuesday 29th July 15:45
The US report of late last week gave Russia plausible deniability. It suits everyone to allow Russia to manouvre itself quietly into the background, and distance itself from any meaningful wrong doing. This is the best geopolitical outcome, albeit both unsavoury and unstasfactory on many levels.
vescaegg said:
XJ Flyer said:
greygoose said:
When are you going to give up on your idea that the world is due to end in a nuclear war?
Trust me assuming that the definition of 'escalation' is factored into the equation there's no way that NATO could start shooting at Russia without that being a highly likely result within days if not hours.Which leaves the question of the US government's defence policy being one which minimises the risk of nuclear attack against the US homeland.Hence NATO's current policy of playing soldiers on Russia's borders in a stupid attempt to limit any such war to Europe while saving itself.There will not be an end of the world nuclear war because a few (in the grand scheme of things) people have died on a plane and in the Ukraine. Its a ridiculous notion. Russia will not be attacked militarily at all and id bet in a year everything is back to normal in regards to sanctions even.
The only thing that will happen is inaction - its happening right now and has been for a week.
The obvious disagreement being between those who agree that there will not/should not be any 'action',because of the dispute in Ukraine,or because of an accident involving a civil aircraft which took place in a localised war zone related to that dispute and the reasoning for that.
As opposed to those who think there should be 'action' taken by NATO regarding Ukraine.Who have obviously based their ideas on all the western propaganda concerning 'the end' of the 'Cold War' together with the idea that as it's supposedly gone it now won't/can't still turn 'hot' given the wrong move in the wrong place.
Edited by XJ Flyer on Tuesday 29th July 16:04
Rocksteadyeddie said:
To be fair to XJ he was simply replying to some of the previous posters advocating sending troops in.
The US report of late last week gave Russia plausible deniability. It suits everyone to allow Russia to manouvre itself quietly into the background, and distance itself from any meaningful wrong doing. This is the best geopolitical outcome, albeit both unsavoury and unstasfactory on many levels.
This is the bit hardest to swallow, but it is a realisation that the world's leaders really don't give a fThe US report of late last week gave Russia plausible deniability. It suits everyone to allow Russia to manouvre itself quietly into the background, and distance itself from any meaningful wrong doing. This is the best geopolitical outcome, albeit both unsavoury and unstasfactory on many levels.
k about the population.How USA have arrived at that conclusion is just beyond belief, where could the BUK missile and the training to operate it possibly have come from?
Russian hasn't quietly manoeuvred away. Quite the opposite in fact as they provide more and more support for the 'separatists'. This chap was killed north of Donetsk today...
Supposedly says he's a Russian from Smolensk, fighting for the DNR.
Boydie88 said:
Rocksteadyeddie said:
To be fair to XJ he was simply replying to some of the previous posters advocating sending troops in.
The US report of late last week gave Russia plausible deniability. It suits everyone to allow Russia to manouvre itself quietly into the background, and distance itself from any meaningful wrong doing. This is the best geopolitical outcome, albeit both unsavoury and unstasfactory on many levels.
This is the bit hardest to swallow, but it is a realisation that the world's leaders really don't give a fThe US report of late last week gave Russia plausible deniability. It suits everyone to allow Russia to manouvre itself quietly into the background, and distance itself from any meaningful wrong doing. This is the best geopolitical outcome, albeit both unsavoury and unstasfactory on many levels.
k about the population.How USA have arrived at that conclusion is just beyond belief, where could the BUK missile and the training to operate it possibly have come from?
Russian hasn't quietly manoeuvred away. Quite the opposite in fact as they provide more and more support for the 'separatists'. This chap was killed north of Donetsk today...
Supposedly says he's a Russian from Smolensk, fighting for the DNR.
Let alone then taking that support to the point of wanting to actually get involved in the dispute between the Ukrainian nationalist and Russian loyalist sides on the side of the Ukrainian nationalists.Thereby risking a major war between NATO and Russia.The fact is Ukraine has never been of any importance to us during the Cold War and it shouldn't be now.
While going by the stupid logic of those who want us to take action regarding the situation there we could have ended the world as we know it at least 50 years ago.
Boydie88 said:
This is the bit hardest to swallow, but it is a realisation that the world's leaders really don't give a fk about the population.
How USA have arrived at that conclusion is just beyond belief, where could the BUK missile and the training to operate it possibly have come from?
Russian hasn't quietly manoeuvred away. Quite the opposite in fact as they provide more and more support for the 'separatists'. This chap was killed north of Donetsk today...
Supposedly says he's a Russian from Smolensk, fighting for the DNR.
Apologies. My post could have been clearer. I meant manouvred away from direct implication in the downing of the Malaysian aircraft. k about the population.How USA have arrived at that conclusion is just beyond belief, where could the BUK missile and the training to operate it possibly have come from?
Russian hasn't quietly manoeuvred away. Quite the opposite in fact as they provide more and more support for the 'separatists'. This chap was killed north of Donetsk today...
Supposedly says he's a Russian from Smolensk, fighting for the DNR.
Russia have no interest in moving away from influencing events in Ukraine, given the strategic importance of the territory for them.
vescaegg said:
There will not be an end of the world nuclear war because a few (in the grand scheme of things) people have died on a plane and in the Ukraine. Its a ridiculous notion. Russia will not be attacked militarily at all and id bet in a year everything is back to normal in regards to sanctions even.
The only thing that will happen is inaction - its happening right now and has been for a week. Matter of factly about our dear leaders - no one cares about the Ukraine or the people on that plane - they just need to make it seem like they do.
Edited by vescaegg on Tuesday 29th July 15:45
This, people, is the way forward. We shut our mouths and hope it quietly goes away.
new sanctions on Russia, US to follow:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/29/econo...
What do you think of that, XJ Flyerski? How will that affect the British in Northern Ireland?
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/29/econo...
What do you think of that, XJ Flyerski? How will that affect the British in Northern Ireland?
vonuber said:
& Obama announces new sanctions on the Russians. They are out to get Putin.Tonberry said:
Smartest thing I've ever heard you say?
This, people, is the way forward. We shut our mouths and hope it quietly goes away.
Not sure if you have been stalking me or something but thanks anyway. This, people, is the way forward. We shut our mouths and hope it quietly goes away.
Hopefully you didn't hear me this evening swearing like a trooper whilst upside down in the footwell of the Fabia trying to change the brake light switch.
Mermaid said:
vonuber said:
& Obama announces new sanctions on the Russians. They are out to get Putin.jmorgan said:
But the problem is I fear, they are playing a game of chicken with someone who will go a bit further than we will.
Who knows, wait and see.
I am very hopeful that the West rattles sabres puts on a show and nothing else. Putin is the sort of leader who very possibly will not back down. The downside risk to world trade of another cold war, which could all to easily result from excessive attempts to damage Russia, could be almost incalculable. Thankfully as others have sad the intention does seem to be sabre rattling and little else. Much as I detest the actions that led to the downing of the plane and the massive tragedy, a real fall out with Russia must be avoided. Who knows, wait and see.
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