Malaysian Airlines 777 down on Ukraine / Russia Border?

Malaysian Airlines 777 down on Ukraine / Russia Border?

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skyrover

12,668 posts

203 months

Thursday 28th August 2014
quotequote all
Some quotes from the current emergency UN meeting being held in New York.

US Ambassador to the UN Samantha Power on Russia: 'It has manipulated, it has obfuscated, it has outright lied'

US Ambassador to the UN Samantha Power: 'Russian deployments into Ukraine include advanced artillery and air defense systems not found in the Ukrainian inventory'

UN Under-Secretary-General: "We cannot ignore the deeply alarming reports of Russian military involvement"

And Russia's own Human Right's Council (which has an uneasy relationship with the Kremlin)

More than 100 Russian soldiers killed in eastern Ukraine in a single battle this month while helping pro-Russian separatists fight Ukrainian troops, 2 members of the Russian presidential human rights council say

rich85uk

3,312 posts

178 months

Thursday 28th August 2014
quotequote all
skyrover said:
More than 100 Russian soldiers killed in eastern Ukraine in a single battle this month while helping pro-Russian separatists fight Ukrainian troops, 2 members of the Russian presidential human rights council say
This appears to be where some are being buried, after details of a soldier killed were put on social media by family so people could pay respects some journalists turned up. In true Russian style they were welcomed with open arms but sadly the social media page disappeared along with the soldiers name and picture on his grave

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zkx7Z4ftFfw

Jollyclub

1,905 posts

245 months

Thursday 28th August 2014
quotequote all
toppstuff said:


The old USSR was a closed society. They traded only with themselves. No one really bought anything from them.

This has all changed.
Hmmmm.. scratchchin

Wiki list of Mig 21 operators & former operators.

1 Current operators

1.1 Azerbaijan
1.2 Angola
1.3 Tanzania
1.4 Bulgaria
1.5 Cambodia
1.6 Croatia
1.7 Cuba
1.8 Egypt
1.9 Eritrea
1.10 Ethiopia
1.11 India
1.12 Laos
1.13 Libya
1.14 Mali
1.15 Mongolia
1.16 Mozambique
1.17 North Korea
1.18 Romania
1.19 Serbia
1.20 Syria
1.21 Uganda
1.22 Vietnam
1.23 Yemen
1.24 Zambia

2 Former operators

2.1 Afghanistan
2.2 Algeria
2.3 Bangladesh
2.4 Belarus
2.5 Burkina Faso
2.6 Chad
2.7 China
2.8 Congo, Republic of the
2.9 Congo, Democratic Republic of the
2.10 Czechoslovakia
2.11 Czech Republic
2.12 East Germany
2.13 Finland
2.14 Germany
2.15 Georgia
2.16 Guinea
2.17 Guinea-Bissau
2.18 Hungary
2.19 Indonesia
2.20 Iran
2.21 Iraq
2.22 Israel
2.23 Kyrgyzstan
2.24 Madagascar
2.25 Namibia
2.26 Nigeria
2.27 Poland
2.28 Russia
2.29 Slovakia
2.30 Soviet Union
2.31 Somalia
2.32 Sudan
2.33 Turkmenistan
2.34 United States
2.35 Ukraine
2.36 North Yemen
2.37 South Yemen
2.38 Yugoslavia
2.38.1 SFR Yugoslavia
2.38.2 FR Yugoslavia

Think they also made and sold a fairly popular assault rifle.

That was the old closed USSR.





Cobnapint

8,596 posts

150 months

Thursday 28th August 2014
quotequote all
You can see what Putin's up to here. He wants to 'accidentally' take the SE corner of Ukraine (with battalions of lost troops and albino supply convoys), so he has land access to his precious Crimea.

He'll probably call it a day after that, but what a cheeky tw*t.

skyrover

12,668 posts

203 months

Thursday 28th August 2014
quotequote all
Cobnapint said:
He'll probably call it a day after that, but what a cheeky tw*t.
According to one of the locals in Novoazovs'k who claims to have spoken with one of the Russian soldiers, Odessa is the ultimate target.

Cobnapint

8,596 posts

150 months

Friday 29th August 2014
quotequote all
skyrover said:
According to one of the locals in Novoazovs'k who claims to have spoken with one of the Russian soldiers, Odessa is the ultimate target.
That would mean (if the lost Russian soldier isn't on a wind up mission) he's after the whole of the lower half of Ukraine, probably to act as a buffer zone to his Black Sea Fleet.

AreOut

3,658 posts

160 months

Friday 29th August 2014
quotequote all
it seems they have counted that it's cheaper to lose couple of hundred poor people than invest billions in making that bridge to Crimea...

XJ Flyer

5,526 posts

129 months

Friday 29th August 2014
quotequote all
skyrover said:
Cobnapint said:
He'll probably call it a day after that, but what a cheeky tw*t.
According to one of the locals in Novoazovs'k who claims to have spoken with one of the Russian soldiers, Odessa is the ultimate target.
Realistically there's no way that Russia is going to get that far west at the current levels of commitment and probably without the cost benefit equation turning counterproductive.At least under Putin's obviously limited plans.I'd guess if it's all about maintaining as much of a buffer as possible against NATO expansion and taking in the land link to Crimea then there wouldn't be any point in going further west than a line drawn between Shostka,or possibly Kharkiv,and Kherson from Putin's point of view.

Further west than that then I'd guess that would have obvious implications regarding Putin's control of events and,as I've said,the potential risk of major conflict between NATO and Russia regarding the NATO borders as they stand in general.


Edited by XJ Flyer on Friday 29th August 00:39

skyrover

12,668 posts

203 months

Friday 29th August 2014
quotequote all
it would conform to this map... although I don't believe the Russians will push their luck that far


rich85uk

3,312 posts

178 months

Friday 29th August 2014
quotequote all
It will also link Transnistria, the Russian breakaway part of Moldova up with the territory the novarussia want from Ukraine and it means Transnistria gets direct access to see while Ukraine gets none....

Surely by this point the Budapest Memorandum would actually mean something and NATO would be forced to act?

KareemK

1,110 posts

118 months

Friday 29th August 2014
quotequote all
vonuber said:
KareemK said:
So the Ukrainian President says "they're here!" Thats almost good enough for me. Please post confirmation of the invasion with a link to a tweet you might have seen which confirms it or perhaps some grainy footage of a tank moving 'forward' and the £20 is on its way.
here's a nice tweet from the US Ambassador:

https://twitter.com/GeoffPyatt/status/504860196976...

Link to a tank:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2014/aug/28...

I'll have it as a crisp £20 note please. Plus interest at 5% per every day of obfuscation and Kremlin pandering you undertake.
laugh

Seriously, I don't believe that you didn't get the point about twitter. Would you like a link to the Russian Ambassadors denial of that?

You're getting your 'facts' from tweets now. Well done. hehe

As for your tank clip - even the report you quote uses the phrase "purports to be". Yes the Russians are supplying weapons and armaments to the rebels but thats a long way from them actually launching a full-scale invasion themselves.

Until then I'll accept bank transfers biggrin

I don't think I've ever seen so many reactionaries in one thread which is saying something for PH. I'll bet Saddam's 'Weapons Of Mass Destruction' created absolute havoc amongst some of you.

It is quite 'possible' now that they may well invade but I'd still put it at 90/10 against.

One things for sure, I won't be quoting the local farmers brothers baby-sitter who who said she spoke to the cousin of a friend who's in the russian army as an actual fact.



Edited by KareemK on Friday 29th August 09:59

skyrover

12,668 posts

203 months

Friday 29th August 2014
quotequote all
Kareem, I refuse to believe you can be so stupid, so I am going to assume from now you are a troll.

anyhow...

Senior UN human rights official in Kiev: Number of people killed in fighting in Ukraine has reached 2,593 - @Reuters

Ukraine MoD says 2 Ukr wounded officers encircled by 12 Rus paratroopers from Kostroma blew themselves up on Aug 25, killing everyone

Ukrainian soldiers who accepted a corridor of the separatists to retreat in Illovaisk were attacked by the separatists and found themselves in an ambush

Russian troops are nearing on Mariupol, being only 20 km away from the city

The Czech Republic says it will back Poland and the Baltic States in getting NATO bases on their soil. Earlier the Czechs said they'd refuse bases on their soil and didn't see the need for any bases in the region

Update: Nato to hold emergency meeting to discuss crisis in eastern Ukraine - @BBCNews

Ukraine military: Putin's calls for creation of humanitarian corridor for Ukrainian troops in east of country shows rebels are controlled from Kremlin - @Reuters

The separatists are ready to open a corridor 'out of respect for Putin who supports them morally'

Human Rights Watch continues to note cases of bad treatment of Ukrainian prisoners by the separatists

Poroshenko will be visiting the White House next month, according to President Obama

White House: President Obama, German Chancellor Merkel agree it will be necessary for US, EU to consider additional sanctions on Russia - @WhiteHouse

3rd Mig-29 from Belbek (Crimea) unit(moved to Mykolaiv) is repaired now

http://www.breakingnews.com/topic/ukraine-protests...

http://liveuamap.com/e/2014/29-august-the-csto-pea...

http://www.tvn24.pl/rozumiemy-obawy-krajow-granicz...

http://wiadomosci.wp.pl/lbid,8384,title,Ukrainskie...

http://wiadomosci.gazeta.pl/wiadomosci/1,114912,16...


eharding

13,600 posts

283 months

Friday 29th August 2014
quotequote all
KareemK said:
One things for sure, I won't be quoting the local farmers brothers baby-sitter who who said she spoke to the cousin of a friend who's in the russian army as an actual fact.
NATO Secretary General said:
"despite hollow denials", it was now clear that Russia had illegally crossed Ukraine's border.
Nato accuses Russia of violating Ukraine sovereignty (BBC)

DMN

2,983 posts

138 months

Friday 29th August 2014
quotequote all
eharding said:
KareemK said:
One things for sure, I won't be quoting the local farmers brothers baby-sitter who who said she spoke to the cousin of a friend who's in the russian army as an actual fact.
NATO Secretary General said:
"despite hollow denials", it was now clear that Russia had illegally crossed Ukraine's border.
Nato accuses Russia of violating Ukraine sovereignty (BBC)
Thats not enough for KareemK who can be seen here in an earlier role:


KareemK

1,110 posts

118 months

Friday 29th August 2014
quotequote all
skyrover said:
Kareem, I refuse to believe you can be so stupid, so I am going to assume from now you are a troll.

anyhow...
Skyrover, I'm going to assume you are part Russian or have an anti-russian stance because all you ever seem to report (in some length) are twitter feeds and hearsay and articles which all say things like "alleged" or "purport to be" or come from anti-Russian sources.

I can understand this as I feel you have an agenda here as you are busy doing soooooo much research into hearsay each day and then collating it all and posting it on here as fact when indeed some is little more than gossip that there can be no other explanation.

Look at this, its almost laughable:

skyrover said:
According to one of the locals in Novoazovs'k who claims to have spoken with one of the Russian soldiers, Odessa is the ultimate target.
I'll say it again.

There has been no formal invasion of the Ukraine by Russian military full stop. They are clearly supplying some armaments and maybe even some soldiers but other than the 4 captured (which is pitiful if the total numbers of Russians in combat are to be believed) that is not enough to turn back the Ukrainian armed forces.

When the Russians actually deploy regiments and battalions with air support etc I'll be the first to acknowledge it as unlike you I have no axe to grind as am unrelated to the conflict in any way.

You clearly are not.

I couldn't care less who wins this really but I do support any populations right to self-determination which is something some on here are obviously not happy about because in this case they want to be closer to Russia - thats fine.

As for stupid Iraq meme's well here's one back:




XJ Flyer

5,526 posts

129 months

Friday 29th August 2014
quotequote all
skyrover said:
Kareem, I refuse to believe you can be so stupid, so I am going to assume from now you are a troll.

anyhow...

Senior UN human rights official in Kiev: Number of people killed in fighting in Ukraine has reached 2,593 - @Reuters

Ukraine MoD says 2 Ukr wounded officers encircled by 12 Rus paratroopers from Kostroma blew themselves up on Aug 25, killing everyone

Ukrainian soldiers who accepted a corridor of the separatists to retreat in Illovaisk were attacked by the separatists and found themselves in an ambush

Russian troops are nearing on Mariupol, being only 20 km away from the city

The Czech Republic says it will back Poland and the Baltic States in getting NATO bases on their soil. Earlier the Czechs said they'd refuse bases on their soil and didn't see the need for any bases in the region

Update: Nato to hold emergency meeting to discuss crisis in eastern Ukraine - @BBCNews

Ukraine military: Putin's calls for creation of humanitarian corridor for Ukrainian troops in east of country shows rebels are controlled from Kremlin - @Reuters

The separatists are ready to open a corridor 'out of respect for Putin who supports them morally'

Human Rights Watch continues to note cases of bad treatment of Ukrainian prisoners by the separatists

Poroshenko will be visiting the White House next month, according to President Obama

White House: President Obama, German Chancellor Merkel agree it will be necessary for US, EU to consider additional sanctions on Russia - @WhiteHouse

3rd Mig-29 from Belbek (Crimea) unit(moved to Mykolaiv) is repaired now

http://www.breakingnews.com/topic/ukraine-protests...

http://liveuamap.com/e/2014/29-august-the-csto-pea...

http://www.tvn24.pl/rozumiemy-obawy-krajow-granicz...

http://wiadomosci.wp.pl/lbid,8384,title,Ukrainskie...

http://wiadomosci.gazeta.pl/wiadomosci/1,114912,16...
Stupid doesn't get much more stupid than believing EU and NATO propaganda to the point where the west is gearing up and getting ever closer to WW3 with Russia over wanting to regard at least Eastern Ukraine as part of western Europe.With obvious public support for same.Until that is that stupid public suddenly wake up and realise that they are in the middle of such a war.

skyrover

12,668 posts

203 months

Friday 29th August 2014
quotequote all
So the worlds media, countless youtube video's, eyewitness testimonies, captured Russian soldiers, The UN, NATO, etc etc are wrong... but Russia is correct.




Munter

31,319 posts

240 months

Friday 29th August 2014
quotequote all
KareemK said:
There has been no formal invasion of the Ukraine
rofl Ahh we're playing the pedant rules are we.

I'm sure people watching Russian soldiers outside their houses are ok with it so long as it's not formal.

XJ Flyer

5,526 posts

129 months

Friday 29th August 2014
quotequote all
skyrover said:
So the worlds media, countless youtube video's, eyewitness testimonies, captured Russian soldiers, The UN, NATO, etc etc are wrong... but Russia is correct.

In the case of an argument which says that Eastern Ukraine is Western Europe Russia is probably more correct than NATO.Meanwhile NATO shows no sign of compromise,more like the opposite in which case it is just a case of how long that Putin can hold on in dealing with that problem in as limited way as possible before he is sacked in favour of the generals taking over his role.At which point Russia moves onto a war footing and NATO will get the fight which it seems hell bent on looking for.

skyrover

12,668 posts

203 months

Friday 29th August 2014
quotequote all
Russians start asking: are we at war?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/29/russi...

Largely forgotten, the families of the Russian soldiers killed or missing, denied information on their relatives whereabouts