Malaysian Airlines 777 down on Ukraine / Russia Border?
Discussion
scherzkeks said:
US mercenaries are and have been all over Ukraine. What is the difference? Both sides are playing the same game, with the exception that the Russians are on the defensive as they see the coup as a direct threat. It's all rather obvious to anyone that has even a modicum of an idea of how geopolitics work.
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/ukraine-kris...
The difference is clear, the Russians are breaking every international law in the book by trying to establish a land link between Russia and the already stolen Crimea by violating Ukraine's international border with debadged fully paid up Russian forces.http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/ukraine-kris...
The mercs, in what small numbers they maybe, are trying, quite rightly, to defend it.
It's not the same game, it's the difference between right and wrong.
scherzkeks said:
Cobnapint said:
They've clearly been born without the embarrassment chip then.
Denying something when the other person has no way of proving otherwise is one thing. But denying it when the internet is awash with footage of their armour, helicopters and troops well inside Ukraine, is sheer stupidity.
US mercenaries are and have been all over Ukraine. What is the difference? Both sides are playing the same game, with the exception that the Russians are on the defensive as they see the coup as a direct threat. It's all rather obvious to anyone that has even a modicum of an idea of how geopolitics work. Denying something when the other person has no way of proving otherwise is one thing. But denying it when the internet is awash with footage of their armour, helicopters and troops well inside Ukraine, is sheer stupidity.
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/ukraine-kris...
CoolC said:
Did I hear correctly the other day on the radio that there are still something like 60 victims unaccounted for, and so presumably in a field somewhere? 
Assuming the Russians did shoot it down. And they had chance to inspect the bodies before handing them over. Then if I was running that operation, any bodies that I felt might contain damning shrapnel would "vanish".Cobnapint said:
The difference is clear, the Russians are breaking every international law in the book by trying to establish a land link between Russia and the already stolen Crimea by violating Ukraine's international border with debadged fully paid up Russian forces.
Article 1, Chapter 1, of the Charter of the United Nations includes reference to self-determination of peoples.However flawed the referendum - and we chose not to engage in the terms of the vote, draw any parallels with Kosovo, or even acknowledge that there is such a principle as self-determination - there is absolutely no doubt that a clear majority of the population who lived there were Russian, thought of themselves as Russian, and wished to be reunified with the country they had been part of since about the time that the United States was founded.
Octoposse said:
rticle 1, Chapter 1, of the Charter of the United Nations includes reference to self-determination of peoples.
However flawed the referendum - and we chose not to engage in the terms of the vote, draw any parallels with Kosovo, or even acknowledge that there is such a principle as self-determination - there is absolutely no doubt that a clear majority of the population who lived there were Russian, thought of themselves as Russian, and wished to be reunified with the country they had been part of since about the time that the United States was founded.
If they wish to be reunited with Russia, then the way to do it is pHowever flawed the referendum - and we chose not to engage in the terms of the vote, draw any parallels with Kosovo, or even acknowledge that there is such a principle as self-determination - there is absolutely no doubt that a clear majority of the population who lived there were Russian, thought of themselves as Russian, and wished to be reunified with the country they had been part of since about the time that the United States was founded.
s off over the border - into Russia. Ukraine voted for independence in 1991 with a majority of 92.3%. Certain members of that populous then can't just have a private vote within the borders of an already democratically established country with the intent of justifying the invasion of a foreign nation that happen to speak the same language as you.
hidetheelephants said:
Plenty of difference; no-one is denying they are there, nor that they are US citizens. This isn't a covert operation by the US military, the AirCav haven't rocked up in plain clothes..
You must be joking. When was this announced? The German article I posted references US mercs that have been popping up in country, undercover, as early as the Maidan protests.Looks like the Russian government will have to find a new reason for the shoot-down
http://www.unian.info/world/1054085-general-design...
http://www.unian.info/world/1054085-general-design...
skyrover said:
Looks like the Russian government will have to find a new reason for the shoot-down
http://www.unian.info/world/1054085-general-design...
but then I saw this http://www.unian.info/world/1054085-general-design...
MH17 theories - For and against the SU-25
https://youtu.be/PxJqeOzwKaI
Cobnapint said:
Octoposse said:
rticle 1, Chapter 1, of the Charter of the United Nations includes reference to self-determination of peoples.
However flawed the referendum - and we chose not to engage in the terms of the vote, draw any parallels with Kosovo, or even acknowledge that there is such a principle as self-determination - there is absolutely no doubt that a clear majority of the population who lived there were Russian, thought of themselves as Russian, and wished to be reunified with the country they had been part of since about the time that the United States was founded.
Ukraine voted for independence in 1991 with a majority of 92.3%. Certain members of that populous then can't just have a private vote within the borders of an already democratically established country with the intent of justifying the invasion of a foreign nation that happen to speak the same language as you.However flawed the referendum - and we chose not to engage in the terms of the vote, draw any parallels with Kosovo, or even acknowledge that there is such a principle as self-determination - there is absolutely no doubt that a clear majority of the population who lived there were Russian, thought of themselves as Russian, and wished to be reunified with the country they had been part of since about the time that the United States was founded.
Evidence for rocket attack MH17 just uploaded to the Dutch RTL site;
http://www.rtlnieuws.nl/nieuws/binnenland/bewijs-v...
http://www.rtlnieuws.nl/nieuws/binnenland/bewijs-v...
Yes, most all the Buk's missile options have that capability: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buk_missile_system#Co...
Phil
Phil
Transmitter Man said:
Evidence for rocket attack MH17 just uploaded to the Dutch RTL site;
http://www.rtlnieuws.nl/nieuws/binnenland/bewijs-v...
http://www.rtlnieuws.nl/nieuws/binnenland/bewijs-v...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33865420
Bits of a Russian "missile system" found at the crash site
Im no Sherlock Holmes but what else was it ever going to be?
There must be compelling reasons why the West hasnt acted so far
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