Summons for Failure To Supply Driver Details

Summons for Failure To Supply Driver Details

Author
Discussion

paoloh

Original Poster:

8,617 posts

204 months

Friday 18th July 2014
quotequote all
Morning Guys,

I part own a bodyshop and we have received one of these even though we posted back both requests for driver details.

Have called them and they say we failed to respond.

We didn't send them recorded delivery.

We now need to go to court.

Any ideas on what I can do?

ikarl

3,730 posts

199 months

Friday 18th July 2014
quotequote all
Go to Court?

paoloh

Original Poster:

8,617 posts

204 months

Friday 18th July 2014
quotequote all
ikarl said:
Go to Court?
Thanks.....

PHmember

2,487 posts

171 months

Friday 18th July 2014
quotequote all
Not go to court?

Snowboy

8,028 posts

151 months

Friday 18th July 2014
quotequote all
Contact the court.
Explain you have the details and the originals appear to have been lost in the post.
Ask if you can send the details in or if you should bring them to court.

In my (limited) experience courts are quite kind to simple mistakes, but until you contact them they don't know if it's a mistake or if you just ignored them.

paoloh

Original Poster:

8,617 posts

204 months

Friday 18th July 2014
quotequote all
PHmember said:
Not go to court?
I feel a pattern forming herebiggrin

I will restructure the question.

Do I just say, "we responded to the letters?"

Is there another form of defence etc etc?

Dave Hedgehog

14,550 posts

204 months

Friday 18th July 2014
quotequote all
Snowboy said:
Contact the court.
Explain you have the details and the originals appear to have been lost in the post.
Ask if you can send the details in or if you should bring them to court.

In my (limited) experience courts are quite kind to simple mistakes, but until you contact them they don't know if it's a mistake or if you just ignored them.
legally is a letter not deemed to have been sent from when it is posted not when it arrives ?

paoloh

Original Poster:

8,617 posts

204 months

Friday 18th July 2014
quotequote all
Snowboy said:
Contact the court.
Explain you have the details and the originals appear to have been lost in the post.
Ask if you can send the details in or if you should bring them to court.

In my (limited) experience courts are quite kind to simple mistakes, but until you contact them they don't know if it's a mistake or if you just ignored them.
We get quite a few of these due to owning the bodyshop, this is the first one that has gone wrong.

We always send them back because it is ball ache.

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

126 months

Friday 18th July 2014
quotequote all
paoloh said:
ikarl said:
Go to Court?
Thanks...
So why not tell us what answer you WERE after, and then we can give you it?

Snowboy

8,028 posts

151 months

Friday 18th July 2014
quotequote all
Dave Hedgehog said:
legally is a letter not deemed to have been sent from when it is posted not when it arrives ?
Yes.
If you can prove it was posted.

Although I think there are some exceptions.

paoloh

Original Poster:

8,617 posts

204 months

Friday 18th July 2014
quotequote all
TooMany2cvs said:
paoloh said:
ikarl said:
Go to Court?
Thanks...
So why not tell us what answer you WERE after, and then we can give you it?
I have in another post already.

tenpenceshort

32,880 posts

217 months

Friday 18th July 2014
quotequote all
Snowboy said:
Yes.
If you can prove it was posted.

Although I think there are some exceptions.
Interpretations Act should apply, I would have thought? The prosecution would have to prove the item was not posted rather then you proving it was. Might be wrong, but I'd expect standard of proof to be balance of probabilities.

Convincing the court that you are a garage who gets these requests from time to time and you have a history of compliance because otherwise it's a PITA would be helpful. Photocopies of the completed documents more so. Written records showing you keep a log of who has the vehicle at any time etc.

Durzel

12,266 posts

168 months

Friday 18th July 2014
quotequote all
What did you actually send back though?

Was it an unequivocal naming of a single driver, or a "it could've been anyone driving that day mate, where's the evidence? Was the guy using the speed gun wearing a hivis jacket and a hat?", or "I'm reasonably confident it's this person so they've agreed to take the points", or a list of names, or something along those lines?

paoloh

Original Poster:

8,617 posts

204 months

Friday 18th July 2014
quotequote all
Durzel said:
What did you actually send back though?

Was it an unequivocal naming of a single driver, or a "it could've been anyone driving that day mate, where's the evidence? Was the guy using the speed gun wearing a hivis jacket and a hat?", or "I'm reasonably confident it's this person so they've agreed to take the points", or a list of names, or something along those lines?
Gave the Drivers full details

agtlaw

6,712 posts

206 months

Friday 18th July 2014
quotequote all
paoloh said:
Morning Guys,

I part own a bodyshop and we have received one of these even though we posted back both requests for driver details.

Have called them and they say we failed to respond.

We didn't send them recorded delivery.

We now need to go to court.

Any ideas on what I can do?
Both requests?

You won't resolve this by simply phoning the court. The court isn't the prosecuting authority so not sure why this is even suggested.

Your defence is set out in section 172(7)(b) of the Road Traffic Act 1988:

"the person on whom the notice is served shall not be guilty of an offence if he shows ... that he gave the information ... "

Burden on D to civil standard.

Strategy:

1. Not guilty plea by post.
2. After the hearing, write to the CPS setting out your defence. Serve copy documents on CPS.
3. Attend trial.



speedking31

3,556 posts

136 months

Friday 18th July 2014
quotequote all
But isn't the difficulty in the "... he shows ..." as the OP has nothing to show?

OP, was this one of your vehicles or a customer vehicle?

agtlaw

6,712 posts

206 months

Friday 18th July 2014
quotequote all
speedking31 said:
But isn't the difficulty in the "... he shows ..." as the OP has nothing to show?

OP, was this one of your vehicles or a customer vehicle?
As in so many cases, it boils down to credibilty in the witness box.

Qwert1e

545 posts

118 months

Friday 18th July 2014
quotequote all
paoloh said:
We always send them back because it is ball ache.
... and keep a copy in case we are accused of not responding.

paoloh

Original Poster:

8,617 posts

204 months

Friday 18th July 2014
quotequote all
Qwert1e said:
paoloh said:
We always send them back because it is ball ache.
... and keep a copy in case we are accused of not responding.
A copy of what?

In future, I will send recorded.

paoloh

Original Poster:

8,617 posts

204 months

Friday 18th July 2014
quotequote all
agtlaw said:
paoloh said:
Morning Guys,

I part own a bodyshop and we have received one of these even though we posted back both requests for driver details.

Have called them and they say we failed to respond.

We didn't send them recorded delivery.

We now need to go to court.

Any ideas on what I can do?
Both requests?

You won't resolve this by simply phoning the court. The court isn't the prosecuting authority so not sure why this is even suggested.

Your defence is set out in section 172(7)(b) of the Road Traffic Act 1988:

"the person on whom the notice is served shall not be guilty of an offence if he shows ... that he gave the information ... "

Burden on D to civil standard.

Strategy:

1. Not guilty plea by post.
2. After the hearing, write to the CPS setting out your defence. Serve copy documents on CPS.
3. Attend trial.
WE had the letter twice.