996 c4S coolant problem....
Discussion
I know what you are thinking...."there are loads of these threads out there already" and "google it" - but believe me I have been.
However, I know there is a lot of knowledge and first hand experience out here in PH Land so please bear with me....
Just a quick run through of the background:-
I had the porker looked at by indie speshs at the start of June to get a couple of advisories sorted out from the last MOT in March. Minor stuff like handbrake sticking etc. On the way down i had an issue with the coolant light being on so they also looked at the tank and pressure tested it the car was running fine for a while. New cap changed, was told not to worry too much about the levels and the coolant level can drop a little and like a good little customer I paid my bill and off I went.
However very occasionally (perhaps 3 times over the last 6 weeks) I have had the little coolant light come on. A bit of coolant in the back and fine again for so many miles.
However, over the last two weeks the coolant light has come on almost every other trip. I know this is not normal but considering the recent pressure test I assumed it was not the coolant expansion tank itself which seems in good condition (not yellow and grotty at least) and no leaks from anywhere as far as I could see.
I therefore thought (having googled for many hours) that perhaps air had crept into the system somewhere (amazed that it has 40ft of pipes throughout the engine or something like that!) So on the basis of things other people have done on here, I tried filling the system with proper coolant and undid the bleed valve whilst doing so . Ran it from cold and did it a few times. It did a big gurgle which I assumed was the air escaping and thought "hurrah I have fixed my Porsche" - So far, so good(so naive)- last 3 trips it has been a lot better - ie no light, but still a noticeable drop in coolant level.
I stress that at all times the car temp needle has never climbed over a tiny bit past the 80 mark (ie directly upright or 1 o clock) .It has never given me any indication of overheating at all save for the red warning display coolant light whereupon I have added coolant as required immediately or within a couple of miles.
Anyway, today I went to see a turbo (as I desperately want to sell my c4S and buy an x50 manual TT, car running superbly). After stopping for brekkie with a mate we could smell coolant immediately and the front left (nearside) was just pouring coolant out from underneath the valance by the front wheel. It was really coming out fast - big puddle - probably like 2 litres worth and presumably that means the rad is shot.
I guess this might the answer to my problems as I understand these can fail and get tiny holes int them but usually only leak when under pressure - ie when driving which would explain why I get no leaks when it is idling at home.
Anyway it looks like I may need a replacement front left rad. BUT I wondered if anyone with similar experiences can tell me
a) how much they paid
b) whether they got all three rads done at the same time
c) if there is anything else I should get looked at whilst im at it?
Please let me know what your experience was and what you came across - my car is advertised on here so in some ways I am relieved this didn't happen after someone bought it as I would have felt awful and paid for the work anyway, however with people ringing me up fairly regularly it is bloody frustrating!
Many thanks all in advance (sorry no pics of the splurge either!)
However, I know there is a lot of knowledge and first hand experience out here in PH Land so please bear with me....
Just a quick run through of the background:-
I had the porker looked at by indie speshs at the start of June to get a couple of advisories sorted out from the last MOT in March. Minor stuff like handbrake sticking etc. On the way down i had an issue with the coolant light being on so they also looked at the tank and pressure tested it the car was running fine for a while. New cap changed, was told not to worry too much about the levels and the coolant level can drop a little and like a good little customer I paid my bill and off I went.
However very occasionally (perhaps 3 times over the last 6 weeks) I have had the little coolant light come on. A bit of coolant in the back and fine again for so many miles.
However, over the last two weeks the coolant light has come on almost every other trip. I know this is not normal but considering the recent pressure test I assumed it was not the coolant expansion tank itself which seems in good condition (not yellow and grotty at least) and no leaks from anywhere as far as I could see.
I therefore thought (having googled for many hours) that perhaps air had crept into the system somewhere (amazed that it has 40ft of pipes throughout the engine or something like that!) So on the basis of things other people have done on here, I tried filling the system with proper coolant and undid the bleed valve whilst doing so . Ran it from cold and did it a few times. It did a big gurgle which I assumed was the air escaping and thought "hurrah I have fixed my Porsche" - So far, so good(so naive)- last 3 trips it has been a lot better - ie no light, but still a noticeable drop in coolant level.
I stress that at all times the car temp needle has never climbed over a tiny bit past the 80 mark (ie directly upright or 1 o clock) .It has never given me any indication of overheating at all save for the red warning display coolant light whereupon I have added coolant as required immediately or within a couple of miles.
Anyway, today I went to see a turbo (as I desperately want to sell my c4S and buy an x50 manual TT, car running superbly). After stopping for brekkie with a mate we could smell coolant immediately and the front left (nearside) was just pouring coolant out from underneath the valance by the front wheel. It was really coming out fast - big puddle - probably like 2 litres worth and presumably that means the rad is shot.
I guess this might the answer to my problems as I understand these can fail and get tiny holes int them but usually only leak when under pressure - ie when driving which would explain why I get no leaks when it is idling at home.
Anyway it looks like I may need a replacement front left rad. BUT I wondered if anyone with similar experiences can tell me
a) how much they paid
b) whether they got all three rads done at the same time
c) if there is anything else I should get looked at whilst im at it?
Please let me know what your experience was and what you came across - my car is advertised on here so in some ways I am relieved this didn't happen after someone bought it as I would have felt awful and paid for the work anyway, however with people ringing me up fairly regularly it is bloody frustrating!
Many thanks all in advance (sorry no pics of the splurge either!)
Couple of things, firstly it my be my dodgy memory but I'm sure the coolant needs to be filled with the car at an angle to prevent air locks.
Also my old turbo had an issue with smoking rads.
Turned out to be a weeping drain plug on one of the rads (centre I think). It only started weeping once it was good & hot so it could well be your rads are rotten.
Mine were all done under warranty so I couldn't tell you how much you're looking at but while the bumper's off you should give the aircon rads a good clean and consider fitting mesh to the intakes to prevent carp building up & rotting the new ones.
Also my old turbo had an issue with smoking rads.
Turned out to be a weeping drain plug on one of the rads (centre I think). It only started weeping once it was good & hot so it could well be your rads are rotten.
Mine were all done under warranty so I couldn't tell you how much you're looking at but while the bumper's off you should give the aircon rads a good clean and consider fitting mesh to the intakes to prevent carp building up & rotting the new ones.
Edited by DJFish on Sunday 20th July 15:59
I think as with most things automotive, it's getting to the broken bits that takes the time: bumper removal;
http://youtu.be/Um-h2aUJHY4
Rad replacement:
http://youtu.be/3Q5d7D58NhE
Probably not too bad as long as you have all the parts or a spare car to pop down to your local parts supplier.
http://youtu.be/Um-h2aUJHY4
Rad replacement:
http://youtu.be/3Q5d7D58NhE
Probably not too bad as long as you have all the parts or a spare car to pop down to your local parts supplier.
Rads are DIY able.
Make your life easy.
Jack up the entire front of the car as high as possible before doing anything, and remove both wheels.
Do yourself another favour and allow a day to get them off if it's your first time. It's actually doable in well under 2 hrs but you will have a bit of a learning curve, so take your time.
If the AC is not working bank on replacing the condensers too.
If the coolant is truly gushing out then it could also be something else - like a split hose.
I would jack, remove the bumper, start the car (ensure you have coolant in it!) and check where the leak is actually coming from, because it's not necessarily the wet bits, the coolant gets everywhere.
Make your life easy.
Jack up the entire front of the car as high as possible before doing anything, and remove both wheels.
Do yourself another favour and allow a day to get them off if it's your first time. It's actually doable in well under 2 hrs but you will have a bit of a learning curve, so take your time.
If the AC is not working bank on replacing the condensers too.
If the coolant is truly gushing out then it could also be something else - like a split hose.
I would jack, remove the bumper, start the car (ensure you have coolant in it!) and check where the leak is actually coming from, because it's not necessarily the wet bits, the coolant gets everywhere.
Might want to look for a new Indy...
The coolant level when cold should not change at all. If it is going down then there is a leak. Pretty basic stuff tbh.
From what you describe, I'd bet there was a tiny leak from the radiator that only showed up when hot and is probably not in a visible location, eventually it turned into a big leak
Thanks for your help chaps! Got
Bumper off in 45 mins tonight which i was rather smug about- majority of that was trying to
Find those last two cheeky philips nuts!
Am i right in thinking that the AC condensers are the smaller front ones sitting in front of the rads?
They look pretty new.
Pics to follow of the gak in the rads and the massive dent /
Hole!
Bumper off in 45 mins tonight which i was rather smug about- majority of that was trying to
Find those last two cheeky philips nuts!
Am i right in thinking that the AC condensers are the smaller front ones sitting in front of the rads?
They look pretty new.
Pics to follow of the gak in the rads and the massive dent /
Hole!
Yes that's correct. If they are fine no need to disconnect them, you just unscrew the frame off the main rads and just keep them slightly pulled away while you remove the rads.
At the point you are in, the fun starts...!
Another tip there is a lot of coolant in the car, IIRC 23 litres, I would prepare some bungs before I took off the hoses to also prevent dribbles. However as long as the car is at an angle most of the coolant will stay put and that which is lost, if properly collected, can be filtered and re-used.
Not unusual for me to remove a rad or more and lose absolutely no coolant at all.
At the point you are in, the fun starts...!
Another tip there is a lot of coolant in the car, IIRC 23 litres, I would prepare some bungs before I took off the hoses to also prevent dribbles. However as long as the car is at an angle most of the coolant will stay put and that which is lost, if properly collected, can be filtered and re-used.
Not unusual for me to remove a rad or more and lose absolutely no coolant at all.
Brill thanks dude, i see you have some experience in these things- once you have swapped the rads, how do you refull the coolant system ( i know that sounds like a daft question) - should it be at an angle and just simply refilled via the rear expansion tank?
I guess now im this far it is worth doing both rads?
Any more tips on the process as a whole?
Also, sell swap your 996 tt for my c4s?
Many thanks!
I guess now im this far it is worth doing both rads?
Any more tips on the process as a whole?
Also, sell swap your 996 tt for my c4s?
Many thanks!
some pics form last night. On to the rads tonight once I have checked where the leak is actually coming out from.
I am guessing that thr fact that the radiator hadn't been bolted entirely to the chassy and that there is a huge dent in the rad weren't helping!
![](http://thumbsnap.com/sc/hBoAyHcO.jpg[/img]</a> <a href="http://thumbsnap.com/o1bCUVl0" Target="_blank">[img]http://thumbsnap.com/sc/o1bCUVl0.jpg)
Luckily the car itself bodywork wise had thousands spent on it over the last 18 months so the wheels and the bodywork are superb condition.
I am guessing that thr fact that the radiator hadn't been bolted entirely to the chassy and that there is a huge dent in the rad weren't helping!
Luckily the car itself bodywork wise had thousands spent on it over the last 18 months so the wheels and the bodywork are superb condition.
Hey mate good work on doing it your self, looks like you have the tools and skills!
I know this is as you say a common issue. However. On one of the forums (trying to find the link) someone had exactly the same prob, did both rads and tank / reservoir itself and the fault came back!!
It turned out that one of the hoses at the rad I believe close to the rad had a split in it which was only opening up under pressure and was nearly impossible to find / diagnose.
I wasn't quite sure if you had 100% confirmed where the leak was, ie could you see fluid coming out where you point?
I don't think you'll go wrong though as your rad 1 looks pretty rough and they are a common failure.
I know this is as you say a common issue. However. On one of the forums (trying to find the link) someone had exactly the same prob, did both rads and tank / reservoir itself and the fault came back!!
It turned out that one of the hoses at the rad I believe close to the rad had a split in it which was only opening up under pressure and was nearly impossible to find / diagnose.
I wasn't quite sure if you had 100% confirmed where the leak was, ie could you see fluid coming out where you point?
I don't think you'll go wrong though as your rad 1 looks pretty rough and they are a common failure.
Edited by strath44 on Wednesday 23 July 16:47
Thanks for your kind and helpful comments dude! In fact, with weather being so balmy (almost too hot!) i figured it was rude not to try- got tools, limited "skill" but a healthy positive attitude and an even more helpful wife (found the last two philips screws and even got at them for me last night) i thought what th heck.
Another chap above me suggested putting coolant in and running it to check where it was coming from so im doing that first. However, it is drip drip dripping all the time so i think i can narrow it down but thanks you for pointing that out as it is an easy and obvious assumption to make that it's the rads.
Re the c4s thing. Well for me i love the bum , and lipstick line. However since i was 6 i craved a pork with two (or one as per 930) turbos& im as close as ill ever be with a little borrowing thrown in! Main reason for turbo is (apart from Mezger fun) simply that i think they will climb quicker and higher and when i am finally forced to sell it (ie bambino arrives max two years i think!) i will at least hopefully have paid myself back for the ownership. Not strictly and investment as these take longer but something that i wont see depreciate.
Another chap above me suggested putting coolant in and running it to check where it was coming from so im doing that first. However, it is drip drip dripping all the time so i think i can narrow it down but thanks you for pointing that out as it is an easy and obvious assumption to make that it's the rads.
Re the c4s thing. Well for me i love the bum , and lipstick line. However since i was 6 i craved a pork with two (or one as per 930) turbos& im as close as ill ever be with a little borrowing thrown in! Main reason for turbo is (apart from Mezger fun) simply that i think they will climb quicker and higher and when i am finally forced to sell it (ie bambino arrives max two years i think!) i will at least hopefully have paid myself back for the ownership. Not strictly and investment as these take longer but something that i wont see depreciate.
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